Ireland and choice

Shenshen · 09-07-2012 03:05PM #1

Hah, you thought this was going to be about procreation, didn't you?
Sorry to disappoint.

No, this is about the choices, or rather the limits of them, for Irish customers.

I'm not originally from Ireland, but please don't misunderstand this thread as a complaint. It's about a puzzling phenomenon I've observed as a consumer here, a distinct and rather inexplicable lack of choice.

Take cheese, for example. It's fair to say that the Irish are a nation of dairy-lovers. They are seriously into their dairy.
Yet when it comes to cheese, it's cheddar. Lots and lots of different brands, but still, all cheddar. It's only quite recently that some other kinds of cheese are making their appearance on regular supermarket shelves, both international and Irish ones. But they still aren't anywhere near as prevalent as the cheddars.
So, why the obsession with just one type of (English!) cheese? What happened there?

Also, it's equally obvious that the Irish love their drink. People will give you directions using only pubs as landmarks. They may not know the name of the street they're on, but they will know the names of the 5 pubs on it.
Yet, nearly every single pub the length and breadth of this country will serve the same handful of drinks : the same 5 or 6 types of beer, the same 2 types of red and 2 types of white, the same cider and the same whiskeys.
As someone used to pubs and bars differing vastly in what drinks they have (in my home town, no two bars are likely to serve the same kinds of beers on tab), I'm finding this strange. Supermarkets and off licenses offer a little more choice, but still essentially the same drinks.
When did that happen? I know it's getting a little better, with breweries like the Porterhouse and the Franciscan Well, but I still can't really understand when 4 million people decided that all they wanted was Guinness and Heineken?

Does anyone have an explanation, an idea? Or any thoughts? Or has this never ever struck you as odd?

Scioch · 09-07-2012 03:09PM

The Irish are a people of simple tastes and needs. No interest in experimenting just happy to settle with something they like. Whether its cheddar cheese or whats on tap in the local.

Most people have a "If it aint broke dont fix it" attitude. We dont like pushing our luck once we find something thats "not that bad".

Tombi! · 09-07-2012 03:11PM

Gotta be honest, I'm in the mood for a drink now, thanks

But if I like one brand and everyone around me likes that brand... why stock other brands? They stock what sells (usually). Why change that?

Feeona · 09-07-2012 03:12PM

If we had a bigger choice, we would've started to think for ourselves, and then we would've realised that the pope is living in a palace surrounded by gold and lawyers while all the time we were stuck here in Ireland with Calvita.

summerskin · 09-07-2012 03:12PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Hah, you thought this was going to be about procreation, didn't you?
Sorry to disappoint.

No, this is about the choices, or rather the limits of them, for Irish customers.

I'm not originally from Ireland, but please don't misunderstand this thread as a complaint. It's about a puzzling phenomenon I've observed as a consumer here, a distinct and rather inexplicable lack of choice.

Take cheese, for example. It's fair to say that the Irish are a nation of dairy-lovers. They are seriously into their dairy.
Yet when it comes to cheese, it's cheddar. Lots and lots of different brands, but still, all cheddar. It's only quite recently that some other kinds of cheese are making their appearance on regular supermarket shelves, both international and Irish ones. But they still aren't anywhere near as prevalent as the cheddars.
So, why the obsession with just one type of (English!) cheese? What happened there?

Also, it's equally obvious that the Irish love their drink. People will give you directions using only pubs as landmarks. They may not know the name of the street they're on, but they will know the names of the 5 pubs on it.
Yet, nearly every single pub the length and breadth of this country will serve the same handful of drinks : the same 5 or 6 types of beer, the same 2 types of red and 2 types of white, the same cider and the same whiskeys.
As someone used to pubs and bars differing vastly in what drinks they have (in my home town, no two bars are likely to serve the same kinds of beers on tab), I'm finding this strange. Supermarkets and off licenses offer a little more choice, but still essentially the same drinks.
When did that happen? I know it's getting a little better, with breweries like the Porterhouse and the Franciscan Well, but I still can't really understand when 4 million people decided that all they wanted was Guinness and Heineken?

Does anyone have an explanation, an idea? Or any thoughts? Or has this never ever struck you as odd?

You can also walk into most Irish restaurants/pubs and not need to look at the menu:

Chicken curry
Bacon and Cabbage
Irish stew
Seafood chowder
Roast of the day
Spaghetti bolognese
Steak.

And all the "kids menu" is sausage and chips, nuggets and chips, chips and bloody chips etc.

Drives me mental, nothing different unless you go Chinese/Indian etc. (all of which I like, but not everyone does)

Would it be so hard for them to have just a little variety?

Shenshen · 09-07-2012 03:12PM

LordSmeg wrote: »

The Irish are a people of simple tastes and needs. No interest in experimenting just happy to settle with something they like. Whether its cheddar cheese or whats on tap in the local.

Most people have a "If it aint broke dont fix it" attitude. We dont like pushing our luck once we find something thats not that bad.

Hmm, very possible.
But that would mean that all cheese made here before cheddar was introduced by the English was vatly inferior?
And all beer brewed in small breweries inferior to Guinness and Heineken?

It's possible, but I'm not sure

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 09-07-2012 03:13PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Take cheese, for example. It's fair to say that the Irish are a nation of dairy-lovers. They are seriously into their dairy.
Yet when it comes to cheese, it's cheddar. Lots and lots of different brands, but still, all cheddar. It's only quite recently that some other kinds of cheese are making their appearance on regular supermarket shelves, both international and Irish ones. But they still aren't anywhere near as prevalent as the cheddars.
So, why the obsession with just one type of (English!) cheese? What happened there?

It's because that's what Mammy fed us.

Also, it's equally obvious that the Irish love their drink. People will give you directions using only pubs as landmarks. They may not know the name of the street they're on, but they will know the names of the 5 pubs on it.
Yet, nearly every single pub the length and breadth of this country will serve the same handful of drinks : the same 5 or 6 types of beer, the same 2 types of red and 2 types of white, the same cider and the same whiskeys.
As someone used to pubs and bars differing vastly in what drinks they have (in my home town, no two bars are likely to serve the same kinds of beers on tab), I'm finding this strange. Supermarkets and off licenses offer a little more choice, but still essentially the same drinks.
When did that happen? I know it's getting a little better, with breweries like the Porterhouse and the Franciscan Well, but I still can't really understand when 4 million people decided that all they wanted was Guinness and Heineken?

Does anyone have an explanation, an idea? Or any thoughts? Or has this never ever struck you as odd?

The Irish don't like change, simple as. We like what we were brought up with, we like tradition, we like what we know and that's all there is to it. Change means something we may not like.

How many Irishmen does it take to change a lightbulb?
None - the Irish will sit in the dark rather than change something. (And sure, the old bulb did fine for months - stick with it!)

Snakeblood · 09-07-2012 03:16PM

It's only in the last 20 years that Ireland became moneyed (however long that lasted) and cosmopolitan (although everyone's buggering off back where they came from sadly). Not really sure why it's odd that an insular, poor nation couldn't afford to import foreign delicacies they they hadn't been previously exposed to.

Carles Puyol · 09-07-2012 03:16PM

There wouldn't be much of a market for all the minority brands, at least not in the towns and villages. There's plenty of variety in Galway, Dublin, Cork and Limerick.

09-07-2012 03:17PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Does anyone have an explanation, an idea? Or any thoughts? Or has this never ever struck you as odd?

I'm lactose intolerant and rarely drink (and then mostly cocktails)

so... no

hooradiation · 09-07-2012 03:17PM

summerskin wrote: »

You can also walk into most Irish restaurants/pubs and not need to look at the menu:

Chicken curry
Bacon and Cabbage
Irish stew
Seafood chowder
Roast of the day
Spaghetti bolognese
Steak.

And all the "kids menu" is sausage and chips, nuggets and chips, chips and bloody chips etc.

Drives me mental, nothing different unless you go Chinese/Indian etc. (all of which I like, but not everyone does)

Would it be so hard for them to have just a little variety?

Nobody ever went broke by giving the majority of people what they want.

Shenshen · 09-07-2012 03:18PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Gotta be honest, I'm in the mood for a drink now, thanks

But if I like one brand and everyone around me likes that brand... why stock other brands? They stock what sells (usually). Why change that?

Well, there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm just struggling with the concept of 4 millon people silently agreeing to 1 kind of cheese and mostly 2 kinds of beer... I'm from a town with 70 000 inhabitants who currently support 11 breweries in the town alone (every village around has at least 1 brewery of their own). I'm finding the uniformity of taste rather puzzling, especially since it doesn't seem to repeat itself anywhere else that I know off.

summerskin · 09-07-2012 03:20PM

hooradiation wrote: »

summerskin wrote: »

You can also walk into most Irish restaurants/pubs and not need to look at the menu:

Chicken curry
Bacon and Cabbage
Irish stew
Seafood chowder
Roast of the day
Spaghetti bolognese
Steak.

And all the "kids menu" is sausage and chips, nuggets and chips, chips and bloody chips etc.

Drives me mental, nothing different unless you go Chinese/Indian etc. (all of which I like, but not everyone does)

Would it be so hard for them to have just a little variety?

Nobody ever went broke by giving the majority of people what they want.

But why the fcuk would anyone want to go to these places when you can make all of those easily at home? Surely dining out should be a chance to eat something you wouldn't have in your own home?

Maybe I just don't get it as I was raised to try as many different foods and drinks as possible. Can't see how anyone could enjoy eating or drinking the same things over and over again.

Shenshen · 09-07-2012 03:22PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

It's only in the last 20 years that Ireland became moneyed (however long that lasted) and cosmopolitan (although everyone's buggering off back where they came from sadly). Not really sure why it's odd that an insular, poor nation couldn't afford to import foreign delicacies they they hadn't been previously exposed to.

Oh, but I'm not talking about imports!
As I said, with the amount of dairy in this country, surely there must at one point have been local traditions of making cheese?
And surely there must have been local breweries with different beers? Arthur didn't invent it, after all, nor was he the first to serve beer to the Irish?

What happend to those local cheeses and beers? When and why did they die out?

Tombi! · 09-07-2012 03:23PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm just struggling with the concept of 4 millon people silently agreeing to 1 kind of cheese and mostly 2 kinds of beer... I'm from a town with 70 000 inhabitants who currently support 11 breweries in the town alone (every village around has at least 1 brewery of their own). I'm finding the uniformity of taste rather puzzling, especially since it doesn't seem to repeat itself anywhere else that I know off.

It's just how we are. It's not that we're xenophobic, we just don't want that non-Irish tripe in our country. :P

But yeah we're just raised and used to the same things. Look 3 generations back, you'll still see them liking the same stuff.

jester77 · 09-07-2012 03:24PM

Good post OP, I agree. You could also add tea to that list. I can guarantee that if you were to visit the majority of Irish households you will be offered tea, but it will nearly always be a black tea and most likely either be Barrys or Lyons and always with a drop of milk.

Shenshen · 09-07-2012 03:25PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Nobody ever went broke by giving the majority of people what they want.

So you think it's mostly down to the small population and isolation?
That may well be, and it might explain why the same can't be observed anywhere else in Europe...

Roadend · 09-07-2012 03:26PM

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

It's just how we are. It's not that we're xenophobic, we just don't want that non-Irish tripe in our country.

Right on, if its not Bud or Heineken its foreign tripe

ejmaztec · 09-07-2012 03:26PM

On the whole, with the Irish consumers being a captive audience, they get what the suppliers can get away with giving them.

ArmaniJeanss · 09-07-2012 03:28PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Also, it's equally obvious that the Irish love their drink. People will give you directions using only pubs as landmarks. They may not know the name of the street they're on, but they will know the names of the 5 pubs on it.
Yet, nearly every single pub the length and breadth of this country will serve the same handful of drinks : the same 5 or 6 types of beer, the same 2 types of red and 2 types of white, the same cider and the same whiskeys.
As someone used to pubs and bars differing vastly in what drinks they have (in my home town, no two bars are likely to serve the same kinds of beers on tap), I'm finding this strange.

To twist it around a little, when I go to Europe (and I've no idea what country you are from) I'm always a little surprised how often a bar will only sell one or two beers on tap.
Go to the next bar and again only one or two beers on tap. Fair enough its quite likely two different beers than the first bar which is definitely variety of a kind.
But I'm not such its that much better a system than every bar having the same seven or eight beers on tap like in Ireland.

Tombi! · 09-07-2012 03:28PM

Roadend wrote: »

Right on, if its not Bud or Heineken its foreign tripe

You're right there!
Now if you'll excuse me I have to get me English fish and chips and then go bitch about the Queen. Followed by some lovely curry and bitch about the Inidans. All while playing on my Asian made laptop.

Scioch · 09-07-2012 03:28PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Hmm, very possible.
But that would mean that all cheese made here before cheddar was introduced by the English was vatly inferior?
And all beer brewed in small breweries inferior to Guinness and Heineken?

It's possible, but I'm not sure

Not really, I'd say it would be mostly down to whatever your exposed to. I dont know the history of cheese but I assume cheddar would have been easy to make so most people would just grow up with it and be safe in the knowledge they like cheddar so wouldnt be too interested in seeking out new tastes. As far as drinks go I think we all agree when you start drinking its all rank. So whatever is popular amongst friends/family or in the pub will be whatever ya try and more than likely whatever you acquire a taste for. Once ya have something ya like ya stick with it.

If things do change it doesnt have to be because something else is vastly superior just has to be easily available, not too expensive and not that bad.

The Recliner · 09-07-2012 03:29PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm from a town with 70 000 inhabitants who currently support 11 breweries in the town alone

Bamberg by any chance?

Fuppin love that place, great beer and food, beerhalls and cafes

stevenmu · 09-07-2012 03:36PM

Like most things about us Irish it comes back to begrudgery.

If you want a different cheese, then it must be because you think it's better than the cheddar that I have. Therefore it also means that there's something wrong with my cheddar. And, if you want better cheese, then you also must think that you're better than I am. Who the f*ck do you think you are lording it over us with your posh camembert, there's nothing wrong with a bit of cheddar, I've been eating it all my life and it never did me any harm. What's that? Brie? Brie is it now, it's far from Brie you were reared!

Well, personally I love lots of different cheeses, and I really love trying all types of beers, but you get the point.

hooradiation · 09-07-2012 03:36PM

summerskin wrote: »

But why the fcuk would anyone want to go to these places when you can make all of those easily at home? Surely dining out should be a chance to eat something you wouldn't have in your own home?

Convenience? The idea that the person cooking this knows what they're doing as opposed to you just half-arsing it?
And as for why people eating out will stick to favourites - well if you're paying to eat at a restaurant and your hungry why take the chance that you'd order something you might not like. If it goes wrong your out of pocket AND hungry.

But basically, there's a fairly sizeable demand for things as they are and it's not that hard to see why.

Shenshen wrote: »

So you think it's mostly down to the small population and isolation?
That may well be, and it might explain why the same can't be observed anywhere else in Europe...

I don't think you can make any real comparison between Ireland and anywhere in Europe. Despite superficial similarities with relative isolation and population sizes there's nowhere I can think of that'd have the anything close to a similar history or culture.

Fighting Irish · 09-07-2012 03:39PM

stevenmu wrote: »

Like most things about us Irish it comes back to begrudgery.

If you want a different cheese, then it must be because you think it's better than the cheddar that I have. Therefore it also means that there's something wrong with my cheddar. And, if you want better cheese, then you also must think that you're better than I am. Who the f*ck do you think you are lording it over us with your posh camembert, there's nothing wrong with a bit of cheddar, I've been eating it all my life and it never did me any harm. What's that? Brie? Brie is it now, it's far from Brie you were reared!

Well, personally I love lots of different cheeses, and I really love trying all types of beers, but you get the point.

you're pushing it a little, i think

wonderfulname · 09-07-2012 03:40PM

There is choice, but only catering to a certain demographic, a lot of Irish people like to stick with what they know.

There are an awful lot of Irish cheeses aside from cheddar, but they don't go in sangwiches, and a lot of Irish people only eat cheeses in sangwiches. It's not only an Irish phenomenon, I was in a co-op in London last week and 99% of the cheese was cheddar and it took up two fridges.

And with drink, we're getting in to the whole craft brewery thing, there are a small number of pubs that do draughts other than diagio, contracts with which I am led to believe is why choice can be so limited. If you look at whiskey instead you'll see we drink a healthy variety, granted most stick to paddys, powers or Jameson, but the choice is there and frequently availed of.

mikemac1 · 09-07-2012 03:43PM

Why are the Corkonians so fond of Barrys Tea but Lyons is a bigger brand for the rest of Ireland

Must Cork always be different?

Shenshen · 09-07-2012 03:44PM

The Recliner wrote: »

Bamberg by any chance?

Fuppin love that place, great beer and food, beerhalls and cafes

Spot on

I miss the beer, and sometimes the food. But mostly, I do miss the beer.
Don't get me wrong, I like Guinness. But having been here for 8 years now, it does get rather same-y...

Dravokivich · 09-07-2012 03:45PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

How many Irishmen does it take to change a lightbulb?
None - the Irish will sit in the dark rather than change something. (And sure, the old bulb did fine for months - stick with it!)

This is scarily true for me, went from mid Feb - mid April without changing the lightbulb in my room recently.

mikemac1 · 09-07-2012 03:46PM

Obsession with Toyota cars

They could out heaps of junk but Toyota can do no wrong in Ireland

Ireland and choice

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