HELP! HOW TO CHOOSE, SET UP AND MAINTAIN A PA SYSTEM

paradiddler86 · 02-07-2012 08:38PM #1

How yis folks i need a bit of help understanding how to choose, set up, and maintain a pa system for a band and appreciate every second peaople take to write back thank you. This is for my own personnel knowledge because i haven't a band at the mo but this would be the idea if i did join a band.
Here's all the info:
Four piece band consisting of Vocals, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, bass guitar and drums. Playing rock and pop in venues as small as small pubs where only few instruments will be mic'd up to as big as school gyms where everything would be mic'd up.
Here's the gear i have set on (in the short term) for these needs: All passive speakers i do not want an active system:
Speakers:
http://www.musicstore.de/en_EN/EUR/PA/Passive-systems/_SET_-Behringer-Eurolive-System-B-1520-PRO-B-1800X-PRO-SAT-3/art-PAH294
Mixer:
http://www.thomann.de/ie/peavey_pv20.htm

Now here's my list of questions if someone could help me answer please:
What amplifier would suit and why ( i've been told all sorts like matching the program watts of the speakers to the watts rms of the amp)
What levels to set everything and why (Amp levels, mixer master faders, mixer channel faders and channel gain knobs)

Any and all help is deeply appreciated, me head is wrecked trying to ge around this.

PaulBrewer · 02-07-2012 09:07PM

Pop into your local (or not so local) dealer who will, I'm sure, be glad to offer some sound advice.

Also talk to other bands, guys who use gear will know it's worth.

paradiddler86 · 02-07-2012 09:19PM

Thanks for your reply Paul, oh i plan on hounding a few lads about gear ha

but sure everyone has different ways to go about it and just said id put it out here as well.
Would ya have any advice yourself man?

TroutMask · 03-07-2012 01:18AM

Those speakers suck - don't even go there. Think along the lines of QSC powered speakers.

The Peavey mixer is not the worst - a bit of a 'box with knobs' - but not too bad.

You need to go to a dealer like ReaSound maybe - someone like that. If you're going the cheap route then set your sights a little higher like Yamaha maybe.

You could get a nice used PA like a Deltamax or something like that - thing is they are very heavy so you'll be paying in diesel over time.

Squidgy Black · 03-07-2012 01:27PM

Why do you want passive speakers over actives? You're just making what could be a simple enough setup a lot more complicated.

Get a decent set of actives like the QSCs Troutmask recommends, and any decent mixer. I'd suggest this mackie http://www.thomann.de/ie/mackie_cfx_20_mk_ii.htm as opposed to the peavey.

paradiddler86 · 05-07-2012 10:26PM

I think i will go for that mackie mixer now. It looks way better but only slightly more expensive. I'd still like to go passive system due to the reason there way cheaper than an active. I think i have it sussed though regarding the right amp for a system.
I've been told to make the amp more powerful than the speakers for a clean un-distorted sound. Some say match the RMS wattage of the amp to the PROGRAMM wattage of the speakers and some say have the amps RMS around 75% of the speakers PROGRAMM wattage (eg A bin and top with a combined PROGRAM wattage of 2000w would suit an amp of 1500w RMS per channel.

I was also told to turn the amp up full whack, is this true?

And also is this the rough procedure of setting up the amp and mixer levels.......

(example channel instrument: vocals)
1. Connect mic to the channel
2. Set eq and efx to 0/ unity
3. Set channel faders OFF or mute
4. Set master faders to 0 / unity
5. Set amplifier gain to 100%
6. Get vocals to sing at PERFORMANCE levels
7. Set the gain knob of vocals for max gain without clipping but leaving enough headroom
8. Then use that channels fader to set the desired volume of that instrument relitive to the other instruments and the venue while adding eq and efx

TroutMask · 06-07-2012 01:06AM

I think i will go for that mackie mixer now. It looks way better but only slightly more expensive.
Mackie are OK - kinda like Toyota Corollas are OK

I'd still like to go passive system due to the reason there way cheaper than an active. I think i have it sussed though regarding the right amp for a system.

As was pointed out there are additional costs that you have not factored in. As well as amps, you'll need: flightcases, runs of speaker, mains and signal cable, crossovers (if you go that route), extra diesel (to haul all your heavy-assed
amp racks and cabling around), and distro (amp racks slurp a lot of power)

**I think you're mad to contemplate this route considering the awesome powered speaker options that are out there. I mean, they're in one box; they're not heavy; you run mains/signal to them in one cable; they have the crossovers and limiting built-in (virtually impossible to blow); and they're factory-tweaked (time-aligned and all that)**

I've been told to make the amp more powerful than the speakers for a clean un-distorted sound. Some say match the RMS wattage of the amp to the PROGRAMM wattage of the speakers and some say have the amps RMS around 75% of the speakers PROGRAMM wattage (eg A bin and top with a combined PROGRAM wattage of 2000w would suit an amp of 1500w RMS per channel.

Forget all this - *talk* *to* *the* *speaker* *manufacturer*. This is not Meteor here - pro audio is the last bastion of awesome tech support in the Western world. Why? Because they want their stuff to work, sound good and for you to have a good show! You are right in that you'll need an amp that is rated at a higher wattage than the speakers. But the maker will advise you on the correct match.

I was also told to turn the amp up full whack, is this true?

No way - only turn it up as much as you need at first - if you need more, turn it up more. Consider this: a 2000W amp has 160- 180 Volts DC (ish) on the rails - that's a 12.5 Amp instantaneous burst that you'll be unleashing through your speakers if you have the volumes all the way up and have an accident.

And also is this the rough procedure of setting up the amp and mixer levels.......

(example channel instrument: vocals)
1. Connect mic to the channel
yes

2. Set eq and efx to 0/ unity
yes - unless........

3. Set channel faders OFF or mute
OK - I mute 'em and have the faders down.

4. Set master faders to 0 / unity
Give yourself a bit of wriggle room - depends on the gain structure of the units in the rest of your system too.
5. Set amplifier gain to 100%
No

6. Get vocals to sing at PERFORMANCE levels
Yeh, good luck! Most singers are about a third louder than soundcheck once they get psyched up and jump onstage

7. Set the gain knob of vocals for max gain without clipping but leaving enough headroom
See above - leave extra headroom

8. Then use that channels fader to set the desired volume of that instrument relitive to the other instruments and the venue while adding eq and efx
Sort of - channel faders should be run on on near 0 dB. The fader resolution is
more precise, ergo easier to mix.

You're going to need a FOH graphic and *at least* one compressor/limiter for your rig. My bare bones minimum is: graphics on FOH, graphics on each monitor send, comp/lim on FOH, 4 channels comp for inserts, 1 reverb vocals, 1 reverb drums, 1 DDL, 4 gates............

You can add some of the stuff later - I built mine up over the years.

artvandulet · 13-07-2012 07:23PM

TroutMask wrote: »

I was also told to turn the amp up full whack, is this true?

No way - only turn it up as much as you need at first - if you need more, turn it up more.

Probably worth pointing out to the OP that turning the knobs on the front of power amps arent volume or gain pots, they are for input sensitivity and many sound techs choose to run these up full or unattenuated - 0dB.

So there's a whole can of worms opened. To run power amps at 0dB or not....:D

TroutMask · 13-07-2012 11:51PM

ah yeah - if they're correctly matched to the system, and you can tweak gains from a crossover - sure open 'em up. But if you're not sure or inexperienced - best to err on the side of caution and keep them rolled back until you can get a feel for what's going on the system. For separate amp systems with x-over or loudspeaker management, you would want a full day with an RTA & the x-over in front of you until it is set up correctly. Of course, those modern x-overs with limiters, EQ, DDL & phase alignment are a godsend. A lot of setting up though - which is why powered speakers are kinda the way to go.........

HELP! HOW TO CHOOSE, SET UP AND MAINTAIN A PA SYSTEM

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