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Pornography to blame for girls rape in todays society?Change of culture?Your thoughts

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Comments

  • #92
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    not according to irish central,i think our perceptions on who is the object are different,but i think porn as a whole objectifies the act of sex..


  • #93
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,304 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    Yes the little shít did something he alone takes responsibility for but you cannot ignore the reasons why.

    If a kid is exposed to hardcore porn then of course its going to influence him to some degree, it would be insane to suggest it wouldnt.

    Difficulty is in knowing what this kid was like. 14 year olds probably vary in maturity and awareness of what they are doing sexually. If its deemed to be an impulsive thing influenced by porn then I find it hard to call for the kids head. Wouldnt the trial be enough of a fright for the lad rather than putting him in some institution with worse people and instilling in him the thought he was sexually attracted to kids when he probably isnt ?

    I know what he did was disgusting but sending him down the whole juvy route would probably turn him out to be worse than he actually is.

    There's a nonchalance from many about the easy accessibility to it and some even get defensive over the notion of any restrictions on the net. I don't side with the "in my day" point, what's available on the net is far from playboy or a blue movie on Sky!

    I don't know if it has that much effect, if any, but I think just dismissing any possible effects as very naive ironically!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #94
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I would have to politely disagree.
    As a female, I've enjoyed porn since I found a stack of magazines my dad had hidden in the basement, I was 14 at the time.
    And ever since then I can honestly say I never understood the "women are treated as sexual objects". I mean, maybe the people claiming this are watching different porn from what I watch, but so far most of what I've seen focuses entirely on the woman. She's the centrepiece, and the whole aim of most films is to show how much she enjoys it (if she does or doesn't would be for another debatte).
    The male participants on the other hand are potrayed as nothing but disembodied cocks and balls, with no other purpose than pleasuring the female.
    If anything, it's men who are objectified by mainstream porn, not the women.

    Yeah it depends entirely on the type of porn and the actresses/actors. A regular guy on girl scene swings in the way of the more expressive performer. With famous actresses its usually them as you say they are the centerpiece.

    What your into really defines how you view it really.


  • #95
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    not according to irish central,i think our perceptions on who is the object are different,but i think porn as a whole objectifies the act of sex..

    It portrays sex. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Everything else you think and feel while watching is you projecting your thoughts and emotions. Essentially, you see what you want to see.


  • #96
    RainMaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭RainMaker


    I would suspect that lenient sentencing and the general sense among certain sections of society that the gardai, etc are powerless to stop them doing what they want are more to blame.

    I would agree with the family mentioned in the OP criticizing the judge for trying to relate the crime with pornography, it seems like an easy way to pass the buck and rather than accept that we have a serious problem with elements of society, it just gets dismissed as a sort of "look what too much porn does",exactly the way "look what violet video games produces" sort of reasoning.

    It seems obvious to me that not enough people are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions, probably because they know there will always be somebody there to defend them i.e. it's not his fault, society failed him or some B.S.

    We've created a whole generation of people who have an unrealistic sense of entitlement, and i think the sort of people who try to blame video games, pornography, tv, movies, whatever are actually part of the problem.


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  • #97
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Next up on ITV....... Total Recall

    1. Harry - Killed when Quaid stepped on his neck to snap it. Of the three men with him, Quaid snaps the neck of one and shoots the other two.
    2. Dr. Edgemar - Shot in the head by Quaid.
    3. Lori - Shot in the head by Quaid.
    4. Helm - Stabbed in the stomach by Thumbelina.
    5. George - Shot by Benny.
    6. Kuato - Shot by Richter.
    7. Doc - Stabbed in the throat by Quaid with the spike of an arm restraint he removed from his chair as Doc was trying to turn him back into Hauser.
    8. Benny - Stabbed by Quaid through the wall of his tank with a drill.
    9. Richter - While going up the elevator, they reached a cutoff. Quaid grabbed Richter's arms and pulled them up along with his head to avoid being decapitated, and as a result Richter's arms were torn off at the cutoff, sending him falling to his death.
    10. Vilos Cohaagen - Thrown through a shaft by Quaid, sending him out into the area of Mars with no atmosphere, dying a slow and painful death of asphyxiation and decompressation, in the last few seconds his eyes are popping out of his head.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYNA1Cr4WUo


  • #98
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    Yeah it depends entirely on the type of porn and the actresses/actors. A regular guy on girl scene swings in the way of the more expressive performer. With famous actresses its usually them as you say they are the centerpiece.

    What your into really defines how you view it really.

    True, but no matter what you watch, it's rare to see his face. I've sometimes gone for gay porn, simply because you will see the guys faces more often.


  • #99
    Tomk1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Tomk1


    Pornography to blame for girls rape in todays society?Change of culture?Your thoughts
    Here's my thoughts:
    Maybe there is a change of culture, (a victim told m) it use tobe initiation rape of some 9-year old boys, into the scouts 'Club' by a Christian Brother which he video taped, this went on for well over 15 yrs, but wait this was before the internet.
    Why did it go on for so long, close door, hush hush, wisphers.

    Thanks to the internet, these things today can be known worldwide not pretented away. Yes that was an adult and many minors and I know it was not an isolated event.

    So did things like the article also happen a few decades ago, don't know we didn't have the internet to inform us. But if an adult and many minors was ignored and kept silent, then it would seem likely things like this could have of happened without the world knowing.

    Point is, can we say this wouldn't have of happened if that Kid never seen porn, maybe/maybe not, I'm not qualified to know, but as an internet nobody, I'm with the parents on this, the Judge scapgoating it, is wrong, and worse is the MP and whoever using this case for their own quest.

    So in answer to your question, I don't think so, it happend before, at least today people are more aware, I think a proper academic study should be done.


  • #100
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Shenshen wrote: »
    True, but no matter what you watch, it's rare to see his face. I've sometimes gone for gay porn, simply because you will see the guys faces more often.

    I suppose its divided between closeups on the business, closeup of the woman and wide shots with that being the most the guys face is featured.


  • #101
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    Shenshen wrote: »
    It portrays sex. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Everything else you think and feel while watching is you projecting your thoughts and emotions. Essentially, you see what you want to see.

    Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

    Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,he was young full of hormones,had a low moral code,and decided to go for it on a five year old..


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  • #102
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    OP .Immodesty is rampant in Society and the teasing is continuous it's everywhere
    add alcohol + whatever else and it's no surprise at all . What is in the news holds no surprises at all .


  • #103
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Would there be a case for saying these kinds thing may have been more common in the by gone days with the lack of anyone actually reporting this ? If this was cousins back in the old days it would have been hushed up with the guy watched like a hawk every time he came around but nobody ever talking about it for fear of making a show of the family.

    I've heard a hell of a lot of stories about the old days and the stuff that went on. Sexual crimes were probably rampant back then but nothing ever done about them. Some now may be influenced by society and porn but they are not the root cause.


  • #104
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

    Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,he was young full of hormones,had a low moral code,and decided to go for it on a five year old..

    Well it's hardly shocking that a 14 year old boy would get access to porn, so why not have parents sit kids down and say "just so you know, porn is total bull****" and have a decent chat about sex with them?

    And you are saying the two are directly linked, you have been saying it endlessly throughout this thread.


  • #105
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

    Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,he was young full of hormones,had a low moral code,and decided to go for it on a five year old..

    To paraphrase Michael Moore here, the two lads who shot and killed children in Columbine Highschool went bowling right before they went on their killing spree. So bowling must be linked to mass murder.

    I think the issue here was not porn, it was the kid's mental state and emotional detachment.
    Most children will enjoy watching Superman, but only the ones with serious other problems will jump out of the window in red undies.


  • #106
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..


  • #107
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    paddyandy wrote: »
    OP .Immodesty is rampant in Society and the teasing is continuous it's everywhere
    add alcohol + whatever else and it's no surprise at all . What is in the news holds no surprises at all .

    I once jerked it to a Monet painting.
    Damn thing ended up all blurry.
    christmas2012 wrote: »
    bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..

    Have you never heard of someone going "spare".


  • #108
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..

    But porn and rape are not.

    Sex and rape are vastly different things.


  • #109
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

    Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,he was young full of hormones,had a low moral code,and decided to go for it on a five year old..

    The most it was likely to affect him and his decisions though is probably getting him so worked up he ignored his better judgement. I doubt just knowing about porn or seeing it would have pushed him past that moral barrier. At 14 he really is old enough to know how wrong it was. So if it was just that he watched it at the house and got worked up then is it really any different than reading an erotic story or fantasizing about something ?


  • #110
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    not according to irish central,i think our perceptions on who is the object are different,but i think porn as a whole objectifies the act of sex..

    What do you mean by "objectifies the act of sex"?

    Does a televised football match objectify the act of playing football?


  • #111
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..

    So would you blame Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsey for the growing obesity problem?

    By the way, I still haven't seen you post any figures supporting your claims that rape is on the increase. All I could find online says numbers are decreasing...


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  • #112
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

    to the other poster yes sex and rape are inter related,young people are suggestible and more so than adults,so they can get ideas from rape scenes,im not advocating a lack of responsiblity either,its ultimately up to the individual as to what they want to do with that information..


  • #113
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

    to the other poster yes sex and rape are inter related,young people are suggestible and more so than adults,so they can get ideas from rape scenes,im not advocating a lack of responsiblity either,its ultimately up to the individual as to what they want to do with that information..

    *lol I would suggest you read some erotic literature, you will be amazed.
    Books have always been far more outrageous than any film or picture.


  • #114
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    Shenshen wrote: »
    So would you blame Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsey for the growing obesity problem?

    By the way, I still haven't seen you post any figures supporting your claims that rape is on the increase. All I could find online says numbers are decreasing...


    check it up on google for yourself,here is what i got from irish central:
    ''Shocking new data compiled by Children at Risk in Ireland reveals that girls as young as 11 years old are too often becoming victims of gang rape and other sexual exploits.
    The Irish Examiner reports on the upsetting new finds. Children at Risk clinical director Dr Niall Muldoon commented on the research, which he believes is becoming “normalized,” and whose prevalence has increased with the growing accessibility to pornography by youths.
    Dr. Muldoon noted how gang rape is becoming more common''
    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Gang-rape-becoming-the-norm-for-many-young-girls-in-Ireland--159403845.html


  • #115
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

    to the other poster yes sex and rape are inter related,young people are suggestible and more so than adults,so they can get ideas from rape scenes,im not advocating a lack of responsiblity either,its ultimately up to the individual as to what they want to do with that information..

    For the first bit of your post, health professionals are worried about the impact of erotic literature on the readers perception of reality, sexual health and sexual expectations. (sound familiar?) - http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jul/07/mills-and-boon-sexual-health-problems

    You can say that sex and rape are interrelated because indeed, they are!!! It still doesn't mean that seeing crap porn sex will make someone rape someone else.

    You keep jumping between talking about porn, torture porn, rape porn and generally just talking completely rubbish tbh. Make your points clearer and more relevant to the question you are asking...reading all your posts in this thread is a freaking car crash.


  • #116
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    christmas2012 wrote: »


    Here is another link:


    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/16-year-old-girl-allegedly-gang-raped-for-6-hours-in-Cork-and-Limerick-139631163.html


    also another piece which you might find interesting,is that there is a rise in gang rape in ireland,is this a new phenomenon or is it just more reported?and is porn to blame for all this,should the individual take criminal responsiblity?



    *Opens link*
    *reads*

    Irish police are investigating allegations from a 16-year-old girl that she was gang raped and sexually assaulted in different locations in Limerick and Cork, reports the Irish Independent.

    The girl, who gave a statement to Limerick police this week, claims she was raped and sexually abused by several men over a six hour period on February 1. The girl was examined at a sexual assault clinic in Limerick.

    The assaults allegedly occurred in the Bruff area in Co Limerick and near Charleville in Co Cork.

    *Puts on bull**** detector*
    *reads again*
    Irish police are investigating allegations from a 16-year-old girl that she was gang raped and sexually assaulted in different locations in Limerick and Cork, reports the Irish Independent.

    The girl, who gave a statement to Limerick police this week, claims she was raped and sexually abused by several men over a six hour period on February 1. The girl was examined at a sexual assault clinic in Limerick.

    The assaults allegedly occurred in the Bruff area in Co Limerick and near Charleville in Co Cork.

    The girl was examined at a sexual assault clinic in Limerick....... and the result?


  • #117
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Suppose you have a school where every 14 year old boy watches porn. Most of them are not going to rape anyone as a consequence of watching it, and those that do, would have some serious psychological issues. There was a kid in America who shot some people after playing Grand Theft Auto. People said the game was responsible for it. There's millions of other kids who play Grand Theft Auto and don't go around killing people. People who commit these sort of crimes usually have some sort of psychological problems that go far beyond the influence of porn, games, films etc.


  • #118
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

    An erotic story may be much more involving and influential on the character than a couple of strangers banging away. He was 14, he knew it was wrong. So the only reason I'd see to link the porn to his act is that it got him horny and he then did what he did. He's 14 though so damp rag would give him a horn in the right light. I dont think the porn made him do anything he wouldnt have done anyway if he was excited enough.


  • #119
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    check it up on google for yourself,here is what i got from irish central:

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Gang-rape-becoming-the-norm-for-many-young-girls-in-Ireland--159403845.html

    So you don't have any numbers, you have someone's personal impression.

    Good to know.


  • #120
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    What do you mean by "objectifies the act of sex"?

    Does a televised football match objectify the act of playing football?

    It commericalizes it,and objectifies the players,whos the best player,whos the best goalie etc,this guy should be fired,that guy should be fired,it objectifies the people as commoditites ya,but its not the best analogy..


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  • #121
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    What I've noticed these days is a common tendency for defendants to blame their own actions on "video games", "violent movies" or "porn". I don't know whether this kind of tactic appeals to judges or not but it seems to be effective, almost like pleading insanity. Lawyers usually thrive on this kind of stuff ("His mind was warped by porn, he's just a kid!" etc.) to make their case in such trials. Like for example, Anders Breivik (admittedly skillfully) mentioned in passing that he played COD and WOW (how WOW has anything to do with shooting people violently I have no idea) and this might affect a judge's decision more than it should.

    Whether or not these things have a huge influence on a person's psychology remains to be seen, as on some people it has no effect whereas we have seen "copycat" murders due to (particularly films) some forms of violent media.

    But, as the first poster said, it's up to the individual!


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