Would a private police force work in Ireland?

prinz · 05-07-2012 11:51AM

humbert wrote: »

Their pay is not related to how successful they are or to how satisfied the public is with their service..

How do you decide how successful they are? Numbers of arrests? Cue needless arrests. Numbers of suspects? Cue BS reasons to create suspects. Can't be numbers of convictions because that's really up to the DPP et al, not the gardaí. The investigating gardaí could do an outstanding job and yet a conviction might not to obtained because of a legal issue unrelated to them. So do you mark that up as a success for the gardaí or a failure? Crime rates? Crime rates in a lot of areas are apparently falling, so I am sure you'd agree now's the time to start rewarding the gardaí with pay, no?

Satisfied public? Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for success right there.

twinQuins · 05-07-2012 12:23PM

hooradiation wrote: »

1/10

Poor effort, weak fundamentals, lacks grasp of basic trolling.
Must try harder.

Oh no, it's not trolling. This is what libertarians actually believe.

Capt'n Midnight · 05-07-2012 02:06PM

€100 a year for rentacop ? how much does a plumber charger for a callout ? Don't forget a private company has to make a profit after advertising and costs.

Price how much Group 4 or A1 Alarms or other existing organisations currently charge for their services.

Also it will be staffed by people the Guards and more expensive security firms rejected

If you are talking about generating revenue from fines remember where you live. The Guards don't get income from penalty points. If they did they could nail about 80% of all motorists for speeding before anyone realise what was happening.

Anyone got a link to that US judge who sent thousands of juveniles to a correction facility - thereby destroying lots of lives - that he got a kickback from ?

hondasam · 05-07-2012 02:40PM

Goafer wrote: »

Firstly mods, sorry if a thread on this exists already.
Secondly, feel free to shift to another forum if you see fit.

The Garda Síochana are a state agency and as such are overpaid and under worked. The Gardaí, are for the most part incompetent. Mostly due to lack of resources and funding. If I phone the Gardaí, it can take up to an hour for some issues, which are often quite serious. Many Garda stations around the country are closing down and some towns don't have a Garda Station for several miles. If someone is in the process of breaking into my home while I am in it, I want immediate Garda response. Particularly if it is my elderly neighbour, grandmother, great-grandmother etc. who are in peril.

I am suggesting that a private police force be set up in Ireland which will be funded partly from state aid, donations and other enterprising activity. Money for this police force could be generated by fines or other entrepreneurial activity. This could be run as a for profit organisation and villagers and towns people could pay an annual fee of €100 a year per household to each new police station to fund it. I know I would pay it for peace of mind.

So would a private vigilante force work in Ireland?

You are talking about every guard in the country, I'm sure there are some competent ones out there.
Under worked and overpaid, I'm sure some are same as any organisation.
There is no way you can have an immediate response there has to be some time allowed to get to the scene.
Back to the drawing board and come up with something workable next time.

Overheal · 05-07-2012 02:57PM

If you want an immediate response when someone breaks in to your home:

1) Live somewhere that firearms or 'castle doctrine' is legal

2) take care of it yourself

Overheal · 05-07-2012 02:59PM

prinz wrote: »

How do you decide how successful they are? Numbers of arrests? Cue needless arrests. Numbers of suspects? Cue BS reasons to create suspects. Can't be numbers of convictions because that's really up to the DPP et al, not the gardaí. The investigating gardaí could do an outstanding job and yet a conviction might not to obtained because of a legal issue unrelated to them. So do you mark that up as a success for the gardaí or a failure? Crime rates? Crime rates in a lot of areas are apparently falling, so I am sure you'd agree now's the time to start rewarding the gardaí with pay, no?

Satisfied public? Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for success right there.

Actually in speaking with some officers over here there is a certain slant on what you want to ticket and arrest for because the money from fines does end up back in the department. More ticketing means a bigger budget and that means better equipment and staffing.

christmas2012 · 05-07-2012 03:01PM

there is a HUGGGGGGGGGE gap in the market so ya a private police force could fill it no bother i would say..

theres not enough gards on the beat,and they cut the budget so the numbers are wayyy down..

Overheal · 05-07-2012 03:08PM

christmas2012 wrote: »

there is a HUGGGGGGGGGE gap in the market so ya a private police force could fill it no bother i would say..

theres not enough gards on the beat,and they cut the budget so the numbers are wayyy down..

yeah speaking of budgets who funds a kickstart for a private police force? nevermind the huge uphill legal concerns.

christmas2012 · 05-07-2012 03:09PM

whoever has the money to set it up would do it,obviously it would be a police force like beverly hills,it would be paid for police force,the community that can afford it,(usually upscale ones)would be where some of the funding comes from..

wendell borton · 05-07-2012 03:19PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

€100 a year for rentacop ? how much does a plumber charger for a callout ? Don't forget a private company has to make a profit after advertising and costs.

Price how much Group 4 or A1 Alarms or other existing organisations currently charge for their services.

Also it will be staffed by people the Guards and more expensive security firms rejected

If you are talking about generating revenue from fines remember where you live. The Guards don't get income from penalty points. If they did they could nail about 80% of all motorists for speeding before anyone realise what was happening.

Anyone got a link to that US judge who sent thousands of juveniles to a correction facility - thereby destroying lots of lives - that he got a kickback from ?

The kids for cash scandal.

hondasam · 05-07-2012 03:22PM

christmas2012 wrote: »

there is a HUGGGGGGGGGE gap in the market so ya a private police force could fill it no bother i would say..

theres not enough gards on the beat,and they cut the budget so the numbers are wayyy down..

How are numbers down ?

christmas2012 · 05-07-2012 03:23PM

they have a lot of gards that had to go for early retirement and they have recruitment freezes..

Tombi! · 05-07-2012 03:26PM

So I'm understanding you want to go with U2 and rant about how the police force aren't good enough, just like trash collection?

hondasam · 05-07-2012 03:29PM

christmas2012 wrote: »

they have a lot of gards that had to go for early retirement and they have recruitment freezes..

Any guard that retired was not walking the beat. They lost valuable members at the top which they cannot replace.
The recruitment freeze will go on for a few years yet.

christmas2012 · 05-07-2012 03:34PM

I have an uncle that used to work there he was basically forced to take early retirement..
Its all due to the budget cuts,and its doing no good,where i am i never see any beat guards around the place,and a neighbour got hijacked in his car by a druggie pretending he had a wife in labour,he stopped him and said can i have a lift to limerick maternity hospital my wifes in labour,anyway as it goes he put a knife to him and ordered him to drive to an atm machine,and draw out as much as he could,and then drive to brannigans pub..there was another girl who was threatened at knife point on her way to work and mugged..
there have been a spate muggings as well recently near the centre of town and out around the flats..
weve never seen any patrol cars or gards on the beat just walking or driving having a look,theres no point in turning up after the crime has been done,youre there just static taking statements,im not saying it doesnt catch them,but you have more of a chance of catching them when you are out on the beat,catching crime on the minute..

mattjack · 05-07-2012 03:39PM

Goafer wrote: »

Firstly mods, sorry if a thread on this exists already.
Secondly, feel free to shift to another forum if you see fit.

The Garda Síochana are a state agency and as such are overpaid and under worked. The Gardaí, are for the most part incompetent. Mostly due to lack of resources and funding. If I phone the Gardaí, it can take up to an hour for some issues, which are often quite serious. Many Garda stations around the country are closing down and some towns don't have a Garda Station for several miles. If someone is in the process of breaking into my home while I am in it, I want immediate Garda response. Particularly if it is my elderly neighbour, grandmother, great-grandmother etc. who are in peril.

I am suggesting that a private police force be set up in Ireland which will be funded partly from state aid, donations and other enterprising activity. Money for this police force could be generated by fines or other entrepreneurial activity. This could be run as a for profit organisation and villagers and towns people could pay an annual fee of €100 a year per household to each new police station to fund it. I know I would pay it for peace of mind.

So would a private vigilante force work in Ireland?

I'm all for this , but I do have a number of concerns :

'Adjusts favourite AH monocle'

In the event of a burglary at my nine bed mansion how do I contact the new Goafer Police Force ? (GPF) .. Do I phone 888 or should I call 113 ?

What am to do in the event to do in the event of the Gardai and the GPF arriving simultaneously ? will both parties share said burglar ?

Has anyone considered the possiblity of a Gardai GPF turf war ?

Should I not be satisfied with the GPF , who then can I complain to ? and will there be a need for third police force ?

Peetrik · 05-07-2012 03:58PM

Why not just arm the homeless.

Creating jobs
Equally as psychologically stable as the type that would be attracted to a private police force
who knows the streets better than the homeless
Like the SOPA law it confirms Irish innovation in the fight against crime

Sunnyisland · 05-07-2012 03:59PM

There are already some private estates in Dublin who have hired a private security firm to patrol there area after a spate of house break ins.

Sunnyisland · 05-07-2012 04:02PM

Found the link http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=private%20estates%20in%20dublin%20who%20have%20hired%20a%20private%20security%20firm%20to%20patrol%20there%20area%20after%20a%20spate&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herald.ie%2Fnews%2Ffoxrock-families-hire-private-security-after-spate-of-burglaries-3152868.html&ei=4qv1T-zHMcrJhAeKnJjcBg&usg=AFQjCNHP_qytOcThN6RqGsiex9n-tVU1-w

RESIDENTS in an exclusive neighbourhood have been forced to hire a private security firm as they battle a burglary epidemic.
Homeowners in one estate are living in an "air of fear and anger" following a spate of incidents where thieves have used jammers to disable alarm systems and phones and rob houses.
There have been at least 11 burglaries in the Carrickmines Wood estate in Foxrock in the past two months with four occurring this month so far.

Angry
Residents of the estate are so concerned that they have held what is described as "a very angry" public meeting which was attended by local gardai.
Sources say there is an "air of fear and anger" in the estate which was described as '"probably the most expensive new homes development under construction in Dublin'' when the first homes in it were released for sale in 1999.
The residents have now hired a private security company to patrol Carrickmines Wood at night as gardai struggle to battle the burglary epidemic.
Like elsewhere in the country, in many of the burglaries in the estate, criminal gangs have been using GSM jammers which emit a powerful signal that blocks intruder alerts sent by alarm systems to monitoring stations as well as phone signals.
A previous Herald investigation revealed that these sophisticated jamming devices can be bought for just €20 on the internet and some of these have the capacity to block monitored alarm systems throughout an entire estate.

Terrified
A source explained: "Like in lots of estates all over Ireland, people in Carrickmines Wood are terrified to stay in their own homes.
"These gangs are also just busting in doors of houses -- tens of thousands of euro worth of goods and cars have been stolen from homes there in the past few weeks.
"The situation is so bad that this week residents employed a private security guard to patrol the estate because gardai can't be there all the time -- people are at their wits' end.
"Cabinteely Garda Station is the local station and there are fears that the situation is going to get even worse. At the moment there are plans to downgrade the station so how the hell are gardai going to be able to respond to this crisis in the future?"
Derek Mooney is managing director of Alarm Control 24, a company that has developed a long-range radio-based alarm monitoring system to counter these jamming devices.
He told the Herald that jamming devices could be defeated by alarm systems that rely on radio signals, rather than GSM, to communicate with monitoring stations.
"Jammers cannot block radio signals which do not use the cellular network to send and receive messages," Mr Mooney pointed out.
kfoy@herald.ie

humbert · 05-07-2012 04:07PM

prinz wrote: »

How do you decide how successful they are? Numbers of arrests? Cue needless arrests. Numbers of suspects? Cue BS reasons to create suspects. Can't be numbers of convictions because that's really up to the DPP et al, not the gardaí. The investigating gardaí could do an outstanding job and yet a conviction might not to obtained because of a legal issue unrelated to them. So do you mark that up as a success for the gardaí or a failure? Crime rates? Crime rates in a lot of areas are apparently falling, so I am sure you'd agree now's the time to start rewarding the gardaí with pay, no?

Satisfied public? Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for success right there.

You seem to have deliberately misinterpreted my post so that you could go off on that rant.

I simply described the reasons why, in my opinion, the gardai are as lazy and useless as they are. I.e., that they lack the incentives available in private industry.

Not being able to propose a simple fix does not mean that one shouldn't acknowledge the problem.

Also, I believe the gardai are rewarded with pay

prinz · 05-07-2012 04:40PM

humbert wrote: »

You seem to have deliberately misinterpreted my post so that you could go off on that rant. I simply described the reasons why, in my opinion, the gardai are as lazy and useless as they are. I.e., that they lack the incentives available in private industry.

You made a suggestion and I explained by using questions, the answers to which would force you to elaborate on just how your suggestion might work in practice, why it's nonsensical. How is that a deliberate misinterpretation?

If you'd care to elaborate on how we determine the success of gardaí go ahead.

VEN · 05-07-2012 04:53PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

But OP, if you are broken into you can get immediate response, technical staff, people picked up from the streets and detectives to interview them

All you need is connections and to be important

Alan Shatters house was burgled in March

yes that pisses me off no end, the burglar will probably get 5 years for that.

humbert · 05-07-2012 05:27PM

prinz wrote: »

You made a suggestion and I explained by using questions, the answers to which would force you to elaborate on just how your suggestion might work in practice, why it's nonsensical. How is that a deliberate misinterpretation?

If you'd care to elaborate on how we determine the success of gardaí go ahead.

No I didn't.

I seem to have given you too much credit when I suggested your misinterpretation was deliberate.

Fuinseog · 05-07-2012 06:59PM

Goafer wrote: »

Firstly mods, sorry if a thread on this exists already.
Secondly, feel free to shift to another forum if you see fit.

The Garda Síochana are a state agency and as such are overpaid and under worked. The Gardaí, are for the most part incompetent. Mostly due to lack of resources and funding. If I phone the Gardaí, it can take up to an hour for some issues, which are often quite serious. Many Garda stations around the country are closing down and some towns don't have a Garda Station for several miles. If someone is in the process of breaking into my home while I am in it, I want immediate Garda response. Particularly if it is my elderly neighbour, grandmother, great-grandmother etc. who are in peril.

I am suggesting that a private police force be set up in Ireland which will be funded partly from state aid, donations and other enterprising activity. Money for this police force could be generated by fines or other entrepreneurial activity. This could be run as a for profit organisation and villagers and towns people could pay an annual fee of €100 a year per household to each new police station to fund it. I know I would pay it for peace of mind.

So would a private vigilante force work in Ireland?

I have phoned the guards on several occasions and they were there within two mins.
most Irish people do not want to live in police state where cops are strict and everywhere.

Capt'n Midnight · 05-07-2012 11:10PM

realies wrote: »

Found the link He told the Herald that jamming devices could be defeated by alarm systems that rely on radio signals, rather than GSM, to communicate with monitoring stations.
"Jammers cannot block radio signals which do not use the cellular network to send and receive messages," Mr Mooney pointed out.

http://www.alarmcontrol24.ie/monitoring-3/

Alarm Control 24 have its own private Radio Telemetry Network, licensed by COMREG and does not share bandwidth with any other radio telemetry providers.
...
Our radio network is totally secure, penetrable proof against GSM Jammers and is proven to be the most reliable and effective tool against these jammers in terms of performance and cost.

Yes it won't be blocked by well built GSM blockers.

However, it could easily be targeted by other jammers.

With a GSM blocker people will know it's in use when phone / broadband are affected.

Would a private police force work in Ireland?

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