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Our Gobberment isn't showing up to Work, + Public vs Private Sick Days

  • 05-07-2012 11:57AM
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    Heard this on the radio yesterday. Average Sick days

    Government officials, minisiters, td's / politicians avergaing 12 sick days pa
    Public Sector, HSE, public transport etc averaging 7 sick days pa
    Private Sector workers ( holding the country up ) - 3 sick days pa

    =======================================================

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/185000-state-sick-days-cost-taxpayers-27m-199641.html

    185,000 State sick days cost taxpayers €27m

    By Stephen Rogers
    Wednesday, July 04, 2012

    More than 185,000 sick days were recorded across all government departments last year at a cost of €27m.

    The biggest offender was Joan Burton’s Department of Social Protection, where 71,680 sick days were clocked up at a cost of more than €9m to the State.

    Simon Coveney’s Department of Agriculture was next. It lost 30,796 days to sickness, which cost €4.6m.

    The figures, released through parliamentary questions from Fine Gael TD Simon Harris, show the cost of a day lost to illness is much greater in some departments than in others.

    For example, in the Department of Social Protection, each day of sick leave costs the State €129 per worker. In the Department of Communications, the cost was €181.

    Only a few of the 14 departments questioned provided the "sick leave rate" among their staff.

    Of those that did, the highest was in social protection, where the rate was 6.3%. In the Department of Health, the figure was 5.2%.

    The latest figure for average sick leave across the public service is 4.9%, with workers missing about 11 days a year through absenteeism.

    Mr Harris said that, at a time when the Government and the Irish people were scrutinising every cent of public expenditure, the figures he had obtained were "most worrying".

    "Millions of euro in costs and close to 200,000 work days are being lost due to sick leave in government departments," he said.

    "It is clearly high time that the question is asked: Are there cultural or institutional reasons for such a level of sick pay at such a cost in this area?"

    In the private sector, he said, sick leave was managed because business could not afford not to manage it averagin 3 days pa compared to Government officials averaging 12 days pa & the public sector at 7 days pa

    "That same incentive seems to be lacking in elements of the public sector. As a member of the [Dáil] Public Accounts Committee, I have seen this on many occasions in many government departments. The issue of sick leave and its cost now needs to be central to our discussions on bringing about real public sector reform.

    "Clearly, sick leave entitlements are vitally important for people who fall ill and this is recognised, but such sick days cannot be seen as an automatic entitlement regardless of one’s wellbeing. They are there to be used when absolutely necessary and for no other reason."

    Mr Harris said managers in government departments "need to start managing".

    "A consistent approach across all of Government is required urgently," he said.

    Public service management want to cut the cost of sick leave by 5%, or €25m, by the end of the year.

    At present, staff can take up to seven paid uncertified (leave without a doctor’s certificate) sick days a year.

    Most public servants on certified sick leave can receive full pay for up to six months in one year, and half pay thereafter, subject to a maximum of 12 months’ paid sick leave in any four-year period.

    Unions say a blanket reduction in sick leave arrangements would not address any abuse of the system but would have a disastrous effect on those who have catastrophic or life-threatening illnesses.


    =======================================================

    This just goes to show you how lazy the government officials are and the public sector v's the private sector.

    Isn't it ironic that Joan Burtons SW office is the highest offender of sick days, Joan - you should be on the dole yourself, not managing it.


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Simple solution... reduce the amount of sick days and make a doctors note mandatory after 3 days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭FatherLen


    smash wrote: »
    make a doctors note mandatory after 3 days.

    does this not apply already?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    FatherLen wrote: »
    does this not apply already?

    Yes it does. And if you are sick on a friday or monday you have to have one too!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    FatherLen wrote: »
    does this not apply already?
    No.
    Dovies wrote: »
    Yes it does. And if you are sick on a friday or monday you have to have one too!
    Not what was said yesterday. You can be off 7 days without one and are entitled to 11 days yearly according to their contracts.

    Even TD's were saying that they consider these days as extra holidays and they hear people talking about the amount of sick days they have left to take.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    smash wrote: »
    No.

    Not what was said yesterday. You can be off 7 days without one and are entitled to 11 days yearly according to their contracts.

    Obviously not in all departments/offices then!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Dovies wrote: »
    Obviously not in all departments/offices then!
    You can find the radio piece here http://www.todayfm.com/Shows/Weekdays/Matt-Cooper/listen.aspx


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    smash wrote: »
    No.

    Not what was said yesterday. You can be off 7 days without one and are entitled to 11 days yearly according to their contracts.

    Even TD's were saying that they consider these days as extra holidays and they hear people talking about the amount of sick days they have left to take.
    Irish TD is the sweetest job around.
    Tailor made for greedy, lazy, hypocritical bastards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    smash wrote: »

    I know what the article says however, as I said not in all depts. We have to provide a doctors letter after 3 days off sick and that includes if its a fri or a mon even though we dont work sat or sun.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    smash wrote: »
    No.

    Not what was said yesterday. You can be off 7 days without one and are entitled to 11 days yearly according to their contracts.

    Even TD's were saying that they consider these days as extra holidays and they hear people talking about the amount of sick days they have left to take.

    when i was in the civil service between 2006 and 2009 it was 2 days maximum without a doctors note, anything extra needed the note, which applied across the board to the regular joes - perhaps it was different when you hit a certain pay grade, but the higher up people were rarely out sick


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    The specific departments were mentioned with all the stats to back it up, and it was clearly pointed out that the study didn't include Nurses, Gardai etc. It was all office workers. it was good to hear a couple of TD's wanting it sorted out.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    2 days requires a note as does Friday or Monday. There maybe some department where different rules apply but that is the standard.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    smash wrote: »
    The specific departments were mentioned with all the stats to back it up, and it was clearly pointed out that the study didn't include Nurses, Gardai etc. It was all office workers. it was good to hear a couple of TD's wanting it sorted out.

    Can you link me to these stats?


    Here is the circular which applies to all civil servants in regard to sick leave maybe you should read it http://per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Circular-9-2010.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Can you link me to these stats?


    Here is the circular which applies to all civil servants in regard to sick leave maybe you should read it http://per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/Circular-9-2010.pdf
    2010... good resource.

    listen to the show, they'll tell you where you can get them.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    smash wrote: »
    The specific departments were mentioned with all the stats to back it up, and it was clearly pointed out that the study didn't include Nurses, Gardai etc. It was all office workers. it was good to hear a couple of TD's wanting it sorted out.

    Smash - you obviously heard this as well, it's disgraceful

    they talk about sick days as extra holidays.

    In the private sector it works like goldilox and the 3 bears

    1 day is too obvious
    3 days you need a sick cert from a doc
    2 days is just right, doesn't look too obvious, and you don't need a cert

    Public sector & government td's though are taking the piss, then again what's new...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,834 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    smash wrote: »
    No.

    Not what was said yesterday. You can be off 7 days without one and are entitled to 11 days yearly according to their contracts.

    Even TD's were saying that they consider these days as extra holidays and they hear people talking about the amount of sick days they have left to take.

    Well what I think it meant to say as I know its the same in most civil service jobs is you can take up to 7 uncertified days in a year however if you have 3 or more days taken together you need a cert. But thiss is a bit unclear ass while it says this about sick days and uncertified the limit you can take in a 4 year period is 43. Of course if you are sick you have to take sick leave but you do get a letter in relation to your days which my effect promotion or transfer to other department. I do know people who this has happened to


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    smash wrote: »
    2010... good resource.

    listen to the show, they'll tell you where you can get them.


    What??? :confused::confused::confused:

    That department of Finance circular was issued in 2010 it is still the valid correct circular in regard to sick leave so im not sure what your response is suppossed to mean!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Stiffler2 wrote: »
    Smash - you obviously heard this as well, it's disgraceful

    they talk about sick days as extra holidays.

    In the private sector it works like goldilox and the 3 bears

    1 day is too obvious
    3 days you need a sick cert from a doc
    2 days is just right, doesn't look too obvious, and you don't need a cert

    Public sector & government td's though are taking the piss, then again what's new...

    No it doesnt you are wrong, I know this one guy bla bla bla bla etc etc etc :rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Stiffler2 wrote: »
    Smash - you obviously heard this as well, it's disgraceful

    they talk about sick days as extra holidays.

    In the private sector it works like goldilox and the 3 bears

    1 day is too obvious
    3 days you need a sick cert from a doc
    2 days is just right, doesn't look too obvious, and you don't need a cert

    Public sector & government td's though are taking the piss, then again what's new...

    People take the piss everywhere. I left the public sector last year, now I piss around in a job that pays more, doing far less, and surfing the internet and watching youtube all day, and posting on boards, while doing the odd bit of work here and there. I've also had more sick days, due to hangovers, than I ever had in the civil service.
    People will never be happy with the civil service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    I used to comment on these ignorant Irish Indo style ps bashing threads. But now i see that people will convince themselves of anything.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    I do miss flexi time though :(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭JohnMarston


    Uncertified sick leave = Unable to face work today.

    Make work less unappealing and i'll show up unless i'm genuinely sick


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭stmol32


    Good article here should clear up all the misunderstanding on this thread.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-how-much-sick-leave-can-civil-servants-take-509370-Jul2012/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭RHarrow


    Simon Harris is doing a fantastic job and quite a few of the other TDs in the Dail, who have multiple times his experience and are multiple times his age, could really learn a lesson from him.

    The public sector sick leave is a fiasco and I'm glad to see it finally being highlighted in the Dail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    stmol32 wrote: »
    Good article here should clear up all the misunderstanding on this thread.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-how-much-sick-leave-can-civil-servants-take-509370-Jul2012/
    Clears up a few things. I was wrong about the 7 consecutive days anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    People take the piss everywhere. I left the public sector last year, now I piss around in a job that pays more, doing far less, and surfing the internet and watching youtube all day, and posting on boards, while doing the odd bit of work here and there. I've also had more sick days, due to hangovers, than I ever had in the civil service.
    People will never be happy with the civil service.

    people are paying for the civil service............that, if it has not got into your head....is the difference....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    people are paying for the civil service............that, if it has not got into your head....is the difference....

    Yeah but employees don't really give a f*ck who's paying their wages :)


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    I work with civil servants and in this department it's a sick note after 3 days and, as above, a Friday/Monday would make it 3-days as that's seen as a weekend.
    I've seen the piss taken in other areas - hours at the desk, productivity - but not sick days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    stmol32 wrote: »
    Good article here should clear up all the misunderstanding on this thread.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-how-much-sick-leave-can-civil-servants-take-509370-Jul2012/
    If employees have a medical certificate, they can receive full pay for the first six months they are off sick. After this their pay is reduced to half.

    WTF???


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    people are paying for the civil service............that, if it has not got into your head....is the difference....

    While we are talking about sick leave this is also worth noting.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    WTF???

    So someone has cancer or loses a leg in a motorbike accident. Are you suggesting you just cut off their wages?


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