Confused About My Nationality (Irish or English?)

stovelid · 01-07-2012 07:51PM

Born in England to Irish(born) parents and moved here at 11 so have lived here 29 years. I consider myself to be Irish and hold an Irish passport but It's not something I spend a lot of time agonizing about or indeed, about whether others consider me Irish.

IrishAm · 01-07-2012 07:55PM

chughes wrote: »

AS that great "English" man, the Duke of Wellington once said, "just because you are born in a stable doesn't make you a horse".

Op, be whatever you are comfortable with and f&%k the begrudgers.

That's a myth. Daniel O'Connell said that referring to him, but he never uttered those words himself.

Seanchai · 01-07-2012 07:55PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I admit I was a proud plastic paddy.... A lot of my childhood friends in England also considered me Irish and stated that I couldn't be English. A lot of my friends fathers used to be in the British army/former paratroopers/SAS members and held quite anti Irish views, some serving in Northern Ireland. One father refused to let me into his house because I wore a Republic of Ireland shirt.

So far, so good. It looks like you're an Irishman along the lines of the great Liverpool-born Piaras Beaslaí.

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I love football, but can't support anyone at euro 2012, only for fun or for players of countries I like.

Hmmm, claims to Irishness have just taken a step back with this British reference to soccer/the garrison game as "football". (Cue British soccer-watching working class Dubliners and Brits in Ireland on Boards getting upset that somebody calls their British sport soccer.)

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I don't think I could ever call myself English/British.... I hold both British and Irish passports (and a Canadian one too shortly!

There's a huge contradiction at the heart of your post: if you genuinely don't see yourself as British, why did you choose to take a British passport out? You chose it; you choose to keep it every day. I know of no self-respecting Irishman who would choose to take out a British passport. None. It just would not happen. I think you just want to be accepted, but don't want to give allegiance to either and therefore will always be seen as 'the other' by each. Your situation seems to be entirely of your own making. Plenty of English-born people - Micheál Mac Liammóir being one of the more famous - have moved to Ireland and immersed themselves in Ireland and Irish culture and become unquestionably Irish by their own choosing. You don't seem to want to make this commitment. Fair enough, that's perfectly your right; just don't expect your identity crisis to go away with such personal choices.

SharpshooterTom · 01-07-2012 08:00PM

Seanchai wrote: »

There's a huge contradiction at the heart of your post: if you genuinely don't see yourself as British, why did you choose to take a British passport out? You chose it; you choose to keep it every day. I know of no self-respecting Irishman who would choose to take out a British passport. None. It just would not happen. I think you just want to be accepted, but don't want to give allegiance to either and therefore will always be seen as 'the other' by each. Your situation seems to be entirely of your own making. Plenty of English-born people - Micheál Mac Liammóir being one of the more famous - have moved to Ireland and immersed themselves in Ireland and Irish culture and become unquestionably Irish by their own choosing. You don't seem to want to make this commitment. Fair enough, that's perfectly your right; just don't expect your identity crisis to go away with such personal choices.

Look, my fear is I don't want to look as if I'm trying to hard, becoming more Irish than the Irish themeselves type of thing and do things that many Irish born people themselves don't do, do you know what I mean?

I have a British passport because I see myself as a global citizen of the world so have all of them, its the only way of dealing with it. Plenty of nationalists have British passports, my cousins included.

Seanchai · 01-07-2012 08:11PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I have a British passport because I see myself as a global citizen of the world so have all of them, its the only way of dealing with it.

So you're a citizen of all the world's countries? Or does having the British passport bestow some "global citizenship" on one by virtue of the British Empire running 25% of the world until 90 years ago?

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Plenty of nationalists have British passports, my cousins included.

Are you sure you're not mistaking so-called Irish 'nationalists' for plain old culturally British Roman Catholics in the north of Ireland?

SharpshooterTom · 01-07-2012 08:13PM

Seanchai wrote: »

Are you sure you're not mistaking so-called Irish 'nationalists' for plain old culturally British Roman Catholics in the north of Ireland?

No they're nationalists its just cheaper/quicker.

slapbangwallop · 01-07-2012 08:25PM

Seanchai wrote: »

So you're a citizen of all the world's countries? Or does having the British passport bestow some "global citizenship" on one by virtue of the British Empire running 25% of the world until 90 years ago?

Are you sure you're not mistaking so-called Irish 'nationalists' for plain old culturally British Roman Catholics in the north of Ireland?

Nope. I know plenty of Irish nationalists from the north with British passports.

Cybercubed · 01-07-2012 08:26PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

And another thing also is that if I ever get into a relationship (which seems a like a million miles off right now) with a protestant girl here, wouldn't that be strictly a mixed marriage?

I've always thought about that, that maybe some protestant father who opposes that sort of thing, despite my English accent might see me as a fenian underneath?

You would have thought that the protestants that are against mixed marriages would be weary of your background yes.

Seanchai · 01-07-2012 08:27PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

No they're nationalists its just cheaper/quicker.

Yeah, probably like those Palestinian Israelis. It defeats the idea of calling oneself an Irish nationalist when you're going around with the passport of the British nation rather than of the Irish nation. No doubt the same soup-taking Roman Catholics get offended when they are called British!

cocoshovel · 01-07-2012 08:30PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I was born in England

You'd be English then.

This. I never take anything else into account other than what country you were born in. Simple as.

fasttalkerchat · 01-07-2012 08:30PM

When you're over there you're Irish and when you're here you're English. I know its very morbid but where would you like to be buried?

fasttalkerchat · 01-07-2012 08:31PM

cocoshovel wrote: »

This. I never take anything else into account other than what country you were born in. Simple as.

Eh? But sure people can be born prematurely on holidays.

Seanchai · 01-07-2012 08:33PM

cocoshovel wrote: »

This. I never take anything else into account other than what country you were born in. Simple as.

James Connolly, strapped to a chair and shot by British soldiers of the British state for his role in fighting for Irish freedom was a Brit then, it would appear. :rolleyes:

cocoshovel · 01-07-2012 08:38PM

Seanchai wrote: »

James Connolly, strapped to a chair and shot by British soldiers of the British state for his role in fighting for Irish freedom was a Brit then, it would appear. :rolleyes:

Well yes. he was born in Britain so thats his status. If you want to associate with another country, or if you're parents are both a different nationality then thats fine too.
But what I'm saying is, where you're born is your main nationality whether you chose to associate with it or not. Perhaps Im using the term nationality too loosely?

fasttalkerchat · 01-07-2012 08:41PM

Seanchai wrote: »

James Connolly, strapped to a chair and shot by British soldiers of the British state for his role in fighting for Irish freedom was a Brit then, it would appear. :rolleyes:

He was a Brit in the other sense too. He server in the British Army for 7 years from the age of 14.

senorwipesalot · 01-07-2012 08:48PM

Thats a good Irish name you have there OP,however you type like a tan.:D

merengueca · 01-07-2012 08:48PM

It really doesn't matter....

How many people have spent time living in England then Ireland or vice versa, kids born in one country, raised in another.

Go with the culture that makes you comfortable, don't hate the other, it will have contributed to what makes 'you' to some extent.

My own friends/family are mix of Irish or English born, nearly all to Irish parents, some went to school in England, some in Ireland. Some have married, settled and had there own kids in England, some in Ireland. Between us we listen to The Stone Roses or The Saw Doctors with equal enthusiasm, support Premiership teams and GAA from our 'home' counties, may not have been flag waving during the jubilee but had no issue joining in the fun, more then happy to plastic it up for Paddies day.
Nearly all support Ireland in international games, but, some will support England if Ireland not in the competition.

Bigots in either country are happy to dismiss you, don't let them. What does your nationality matter to any but you?

prettygurrly · 01-07-2012 08:48PM

well. i was born here, my dad is english and my mother is irish and I have no problem supporting england in sporting events. It is HIGHLY unlikely that the aussies will win the ashes...wash out your mouth! i also support ireland in sporting events and if they're playing each other I just enjoy the fun, unless it's cricket and then i support ireland all the way cos they're always the underdog!

being a mongrel is just one of those things...embrace it and ignore everyone that gives you a hard time.

slapbangwallop · 01-07-2012 08:52PM

cocoshovel wrote: »

This. I never take anything else into account other than what country you were born in. Simple as.

then that would probably make you an idiot!

cocoshovel · 01-07-2012 08:53PM

slapbangwallop wrote: »

then that would probably make you an idiot!

Please elaborate.

DebDynamite · 01-07-2012 09:08PM

OP, it sounds as though you feel you should identify youself as Irish because of the way you were brought up, etc., but deep down you really don't feel Irish and you're feeling gulity about it. Don't beat yourself up, it's just not happening for you.

This may be a bit controversial, but imo it's kind of irresponsible the way immigrant parents bring up their children to believe their nationality is that of the country they came from and not the country the child was born and will be raised in.

slapbangwallop · 01-07-2012 09:39PM

cocoshovel wrote: »

Please elaborate.

Okay without using google what would you say that nationality of the following individuals are.

1. Ronan O'Gara

2. Cliff Richard

3. Paul McGrath

4. David O'Leary

cartell_best · 01-07-2012 10:03PM

(Sorry for the long response)

I am absolutely amazed when I read some of the posts on this thread. Some of you are carrying on in a manner that existed, granted not too long ago. The OP is trying to find his identity and I'm not surprised if he has to ask it over and over again. There's always going to be differences of opinion from people as to what makes a person "Irish". What makes an Irish person living in America and Australia etc.. wanting to be of their adopted country?

Me personally? I'm one of these people who really doesn't care where someone is born or as a matter of fact, what other people decide themselves, what they are. I‘m born and bred in Ireland by the way. If the OP believes himself to be Irish, then so be it, as far I'm concerned he's Irish. I've known too many British people whilst living in the UK and here to dictate otherwise. What will happen in 20 years time when all the children born here become adults and have foreign nationals as parents from another country? My opinion is (and I hope certain people here with kids), will not care…because the world is changing faster than most of us can type!

My best mate talks with the typical East London accent, born and bred there to Irish parents and he has lived here for the last 20 years and to me and his many friends here, he's Irish with a mad accent. Also, I am not going to be, nor would I ever be one of these people that will "hold a grudge" based on a long history that we, as I would hope, people who will now look to the future and move on as has those who hold the current power and influence to shake hands and get on with it!!

I couldn't help but allow myself to direct this post into a direction that I hope is not off-topic by an extreme but the catastrophic and political history both countries have experienced against each other may be influential to certain comments. Lets face it, some posts are probably influenced on the past and as such dictate what I hope is a minority moving forward. If someone chooses to live in Ireland and decide to call themselves Irish, then I say, so be it and welcome! Unfortunately, not everyone holds my opinion of live and let live, we’re all on this planet for a short time.

kincsem · 01-07-2012 10:15PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I was born in England (Wallingford in Oxfordshire) to Irish parents

I'm too lazy to read the full thread. You're a Wally, obv.

You can be Irish, English, or Northern Irish. Your choice. Be happy.

SharpshooterTom · 01-07-2012 10:23PM

Its alright calling me English over here, which I'm used to (I have lived here for 12 years!). But as soon as I step over on the plane back to England, I get questioned about how Irish I am again.

So there is no answer, I was tortured for being called an Irish bastard in England for years over there, being the only with an Irish top etc, then obviously I come over here and its completely different. One of the last things that was said to me in Ipswich at school before I left was "Fvck off back to Ireland you Irish ****, you mick immigrants can stay out and don't come back".

I just started the thread for the sake of it and to see what people made of my story and their opinions I wasn't looking for certain answers (as one poster suggested :rolleyes:) but just any answers and to see if anyone could sympathise with my plight/story.

If I think if I was a professional footballer, I would just not play international football, and reject call ups from all countries and not "offend" anyone. Even if I was the best footballer in the world! I can't support anyone I really can't because every decision seems to be controversial.

DColeman · 01-07-2012 10:47PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Its alright calling me English over here, which I'm used to (I have lived here for 12 years!). But as soon as I step over on the plane back to England, I get questioned about how Irish I am again.

Ouch sounds tough.

cartell_best · 01-07-2012 10:51PM

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I just started the thread for the sake of it and to see what people made of my story and their opinions I wasn't looking for certain answers (as one poster suggested :rolleyes:) but just any answers and to see if anyone could sympathise with my plight/story.

ThomasFlynn, I wouldn't worry if I was you. I believe there are a hell of a lot more people out there like me than it may seem here. This is just a single point time of how things are changing. In probably what will become a very fleeting moment of time, like a lot of things in life, change and change they will sir! If all some people have to worry about in their lives at this point of time is where someone is from and "remember", then such thoughts will do what time does best, fade away.

mike65 · 01-07-2012 11:03PM

Are you 10 minutes late by nature? Do you have an inexplicable yearning for red lemonade?

dd972 · 01-07-2012 11:13PM

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Okay without using google what would you say that nationality of the following individuals are.

1. Ronan O'Gara

2. Cliff Richard

3. Paul McGrath

4. David O'Leary

Funny how the bigots can't summon up an answer to these ! OP, you're Irish, you shouldn't even doubt it enough to start this thread.

Irish Guitarist · 01-07-2012 11:14PM

My nephew was born in England. My sister (his mother) and her boyfriend moved back here with him when he was a year old. The same thing happened with my other sister, she had a child in England then moved back here with her husband when their son was about a year old. I don't think of either of my nephews as English. They're both in their early twenties now and have spent the majority of their lives here.

I don't get why people talk about football so much when they're trying to decide what nationality they want to call themselves. I love The Beatles but I don't think I'm from Liverpool.

Confused About My Nationality (Irish or English?)

Comments