The Travelling Myth

leggo wrote: »

@Duggys Housemate

No, I do. But you seem particularly obsessed with me, so I'm illustrating a point.

Not in the least "obsessed" by you, it is your thread and you are the only person making your point, so I need to reply to you since nobody else is on your side.

Let's put it this way: I remember before making a topic on here asking was it hypocritical for overweight people to lecture smokers about damaging their health.

There were a bunch of replies from people saying that some weight problems were caused by genuine reasons etc and so on. It was pointed out that that's a negligible minority and none of the people arguing this could admit that they themselves were suffering from these problems. The reality? They wanted to use this small minority because the topic obviously touched a nerve and they didn't want it discussed, at all, period, even though it was a valid topic about a growing problem that's worthy of discussion.

I don't see the reasoning here. My guess is the vast majority of people who travel from Ireland benefit from it, rather than the reverse as you imply. Your argument is the opposite to here, you point to a minority - a relatively small minority - who travel in groups abroad and tar everybody else.

Here, I'm acknowledging from the OP that travel can be massively beneficial, but pointing to the times it may not be and asking "what's the line?" And you're using only the positive examples as an excuse to validate ALL examples of travel, while being extremely elusive of your own circumstances* (and yet demanding more and more personal info from me).

I never asked for any info from you. Thats the weird thing about this thread, you make up the opposing arguments nobody makes. I already said in this thread that I have lived in the US and the UK, where I now live. Sum total of eight years abroad, most of my working life. In the interim I was in Ireland for a while, I left for a job and for a romance. Happy?

And most Irish people I know, and I don't hang around with Irish groups since I emigrated on my own, are sober hard workers. In London you meet an Irish nurse, a doctor, an accountant, an IT worker as you work around, or go to meetings, and none of them seem drunk, or unhappy, or running away from problems.

So perhaps this is your way of trying to shut down a discussion that is a little too close to home for your liking, that might make you realise truths you'd be better off not realising. One troll has accused me so far of making a 'personal attack' in the OP. Interesting that...

Nobody is closing down an argument, nor do I have an "truths" worth realising. I earn more money and have got more experience from travel, and seen more of the world. That a pretty obvious thing to happen if you leave a small nation, just as it would be if you left a village to go to a city.

If you understood debate yourself, you'd realise that we don't need to make our points again and again. We'd say our piece, respect our right to a difference of opinion, and allow others a say.

Say you making your point again. What you mean by your statement is that nobody should dare reply to you.

But I can see that I'm proving a distraction now in my own thread, dragging the trolls from under their bridges repeatedly. So I'll bow out and leave it for others to discuss constructively. I think my stance has been made abundantly clear by now.

Nobody is trolling here, as far as I can see.

*I should note that I also respect the likes of Eve, who have been fully accountable and given plenty of real experience, even if they're arguing on the opposing side to me.

Thats nice of you.

I think we're also mixing up emigration and travelling as well.

I live in Spain and I've built a life for myself here. I don't really see this as travelling anymore tbh. I've done some travelling from here but is living in a different country the same as travelling?

I lived in two different European countries for a few months, studying the languages and mixing with locals. I really went native in that I wasn't trekking off to Machu Picchu I was doing the mundane things like going to the supermarket, taking the tram, going to bars and realising a bar in Germany is a lot like one in Ireland, dating locals and discovering girls are mental regardless of nationality.

What did I learn? Living somewhere isn't like being on holiday somewhere, sure it is an interesting experience and the weather might be better but ultimately you're living in the suburbs of Madrid or Cologne doing suburban day to day things. It's not much different to Ireland except everything is a little harder with the language and you don't have the "easy" support network of friends and family you do back home.

I'm very glad I did it but it made me realise that I'd probably rather stay in my own country and have nice holidays abroad. It does broaden the horizons-- at least you get to know how other countries work and bust some myths about Germans being ruthlessly efficient and the trains always running on time etc.

I think it might be very different if you go to somewhere like Australia and immeadiately have the "in" of already knowing some people there and don't have any langauge barrier to contend with. Not everyone I know who went to OZ is a scumbag!

I think what I'm saying is there is a big difference between going off backpacking somewhere and actually living somewhere, the former is a glorified holiday, the latter if a glorified being in Ireland!

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I plan on doing my traveling mostly when I retire

sure you will. Assuming you are alive of course

Don't knock liver. It's delicious.

Who says travelling has to be a life-affirming, mind-blowing, eye-opening experience?

People travel for all kinds of reasons and simply hanging out with their friends on a sunnier continent and/or finding work are big reasons for many Irish people. Is the better option to sit at home on the dole, staring out at the rain?

I would never see any form of travel as ever being a 'waste of time' - even if it means coming home ten years later to a dead-end job that you hate, when everyone else is married, mortgaged and about to pop out a third sprog.

Even if you minimise the amount of foreign culture you consume, let's say you go to Oz in a pack of 20 and don't get to know any locals, eat/drink Irish, listen to Irish music and spend your days getting p1ssed on Bondi beach. By proxy of being in a foreign country there are cultural/social norms you will experience that you wouldn't at home - even popping to the supermarket or taking a trip to the bank will ensure that. Having a job there will ensure that.

Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't be my ideal. I live in Toronto and have a fair amount of Irish friends who I treasure, but live a very Canadian life. My boyfriend's Canadian. I work with Canadians six days a week. I do yoga, I go camping. Sometimes I even say 'I know, eh?'

But who am I to judge what the 'best' way of travelling is? What the end goal should be? Who are any of us to judge?

In my view it's a big old planet and there's too much to see and do to stay put on a small island with a crap climate that's crippled with economic devastation for too long.

You need to stretch your sea/plane legs if for nothing else, for your mental health. Living and working in Canada has taught me that I can be successful at home and abroad and there's a better life out there for me than the Irish economy would probably offer if I was back home. That's a lesson I learned without taking in any historical sights or without giving up my old habits of getting pissed with Irish friends just for the hell of it.