South County GC Closed

Gambino wrote: »

one ill cat wrote: »

Perhaps it could be viewed that PK caused the confusion but saying what he said. The flip side of that is JK is also causing confusion by telling people his version of how he wants things to progress without agreeing it with his brother. Either way, that as a system is doomed to failure.

In this instance, his brother was away but I know there is a history of poor (or lack of) communication between them. Not ideal and a factor to be considered in evaluating the new set up.

I just talked to someone who had an interesting perspective. The landlords have always been looking at the longer term picture. They need a golf course operating on the land to ensure it is worth something when the govt. finally funds the blessington bypass. The road will probably go through their land. It's worth more if there is a thriving golf course operation in the way rather than a load of sheep??? Does anyone know anything about this proposed road?

shamco wrote: »

Not qiute a lovechild but still related through marriage

Nope, that's not who I am, but it amuses me to see the speculation, especially when its so wide of the mark. The person concerned must be amused too.

I'm not connected to the family, the board or the Committee. Never was.

Gambino wrote: »

An interesting point. That has been in the works for a while and if the route favoured by the Council goes ahead, it would cut across the 14th and 15th. Don't know the chances in the current financial climate but it could produce a nice windfall and solve all financial problems - just like the Grange. Right GreeBo?

Which one of the brothers owns that piece of land that the 14th and 15th sit on? If it's PK then I can see why he wanted to be accomodating. If it's JK then I can see why he didn't.

The figures at the wind up meeting in citywest showed standing charges at €270k p/a.
60k loan interest, 50k vat (for the next 5 yrs approx), rent 160k.
Based on a required membership of 500, that’s €540 per member per annum, before one car drives in the gate.
That would put the vast majority of clubs in distress.
The high rent itself, indexed linked, upward only review, was the ticking time bomb which was going to eventually sink SC. The club would have gone before now, were it not for the efforts of the last Board, elected around 2006. They cut expenditure, aggressively marketed the club, raised capital by way of members’ loans and restructured the overall debt. Maybe they could have gone further, e.g. . closed the clubhouse, but that would have an effect on revenue generation with societies and green fees.
This board inherited a dreadful situation from the previous board, but they kept the place going on life support.
The Kavanaghs, Johnny, Paddy , Richie, the lot, should reflect on this and be grateful for the extended rental livelihood they got, all from the work and efforts of these Board members.

one ill cat wrote: »

Ding Ding wrote: »

Sorry Cat, didnt realise you were a moderator. Guess I am not permitted to join the forum and is there also a ban on new people contributing for a certain period? This really is Soviet era stuff, dont like your view so dont want to hear it!

There were a lot of silent people on the committee at the meeting and wonder did they agree with the aggressive confrontational approach of the captain? I guess not and have great sympathy for some on committee who put in voluntary efforts with the right intentions, so No, not happy to see ALL gone.

Are you honestly telling me that because somebody wasnt at the meeting that they werent still controlling things?

Are you honestly taking exception to the fact I clarified what fwiw meant? Apologies if I come across as patronising to your internet savvy persona but from your post history it's clear that you're new here. Again, as you're new you may not appreciate that forums are places of debate, although debating & trolling are 2 very different things. Healthy debate is the reason I regularly read many forums on boards.ie as well as other forums on other sites.
From dictionary.com:
Troll: an internet user who sends inflammatory or provocative messages designed to elicit negative responses or start a flame-war.
I think it's fair to say that your posts could have been worded less inflammatory or provocative. You also may have found this would have had your point of view better received by people on here.

Also, ftr, it wasn't clear from what you said that you weren't happy to see the whole committee go. The main message I heard from you was that you'd only be too delighted for the committee's resignation to be submitted there & then. If that's not what you meant to say, then perhaps your tone overshadowed your message.

Fwiw, those meetings involved a substantial amount of input from all committee members, male & female. Regardless, it's very much out in the open now why an agreement couldn't be reached with makes a lot of other theories redundant imo.

Cat, I think if you read back on my posts, you will see that they were factual at all times and informed the debate. It's ironic that in your explanation of trolling that you have actually explained what you are doing.

It is very much out in the open that old board members were operating an effective remote control over the captain. Rightly or wrongly a lot of people left the club as a result of the behaviour of some people.

There seems to be a reluctance to face up to the facts.

Anyway, I'll leave you to shoot at each other in the dark. I'm off to join the new club, get back golfing, and we might even have that competition this weekend.

Sorry if the facts I provided ruined a good story, but sure keep pushing various agendas, I think most people have figured out the facts by now.

Ding Ding wrote: »

Cat, I think if you read back on my posts, you will see that they were factual at all times and informed the debate. It's ironic that in your explanation of trolling that you have actually explained what you are doing.

It is very much out in the open that old board members were operating an effective remote control over the captain. Rightly or wrongly a lot of people left the club as a result of the behaviour of some people.

There seems to be a reluctance to face up to the facts.

Anyway, I'll leave you to shoot at each other in the dark. I'm off to join the new club, get back golfing, and we might even have that competition this weekend.

Sorry if the facts I provided ruined a good story, but sure keep pushing various agendas, I think most people have figured out the facts by now.

PhilipMarlowe wrote: »

Factual? Like "New affiliation is no bother and almost there." Those kind of facts?

Ding Ding, it's comments like the one from PhilipMarlowe that verify how your statements are received by established posters on this forum. Thankfully most of the regs on this forum have a lot of golf club experience between them & generally know how far off the mark ridiculous statements are. The only motive I have here is to make sure an objective version of events & realistic scenarios are portrayed to be read by those who don't necessarily know how these things work & are on boards seeking information, in particular SC members who looking for help regarding their options.

I've no intention of rowing with you so I'm not getting into this. To you & all that go back there, I wish the best of luck. That course served me very well & got me from a complete beginner to a half decent golfer & I'll forever remember the great memories I've had there. I also wish PK the best of luck as he always struck me as a genuine well meaning man, so for his sake also I hope it works out.

As I said earlier I've spent too much time over the last few weeks hoping for a SC return, time I got my own golf sorted & take the plunge to joining somewhere new. From this point on my prioity is breaking 80!

one ill cat wrote: »

Ding Ding, it's comments like the one from PhilipMarlowe that verify how your statements are received by established posters on this forum. Thankfully most of the regs on this forum have a lot of golf club experience between them & generally know how far off the mark ridiculous statements are. The only motive I have here is to make sure an objective version of events & realistic scenarios are portrayed to be read by those who don't necessarily know how these things work & are on boards seeking information, in particular SC members who looking for help regarding their options.

I've no intention of rowing with you so I'm not getting into this. To you & all that go back there, I wish the best of luck. That course served me very well & got me from a complete beginner to a half decent golfer & I'll forever remember the great memories I've had there. I also wish PK the best of luck as he always struck me as a genuine well meaning man, so for his sake also I hope it works out.

As I said earlier I've spent too much time over the last few weeks hoping for a SC return, time I got my own golf sorted & take the plunge to joining somewhere new. From this point on my prioity is breaking 80!

One last post

This is a very sorry end. Like many leaving the meeting on Monday (Ding Ding excluded) I felt some brief optimism that we could continue to play in the ‘club’ we knew, enjoying the company of some but not all of the friends we got to know over the years. It was clear to me on talking to several members that they were undecided into the future but would give it a try until the end of the year and see how it went. I was one of those.

Like One Ill Cat I wish Pat the best. He struck me on Monday as a man who would just like to get his business going and let the members look after the golfing end. I felt Jimmy and himself just wanted to rise above the issues and to get on with things.

During the last five or six weeks it has obviously been a volatile situation. I know there was a ‘side show’ as Gambino called it after the meeting but I’m not sure what exactly in this cauldron of emotions caused Pat to do a U turn the next day.

Ding Ding I feel you did Pat and Johnny no favours. It was obvious you had strong convictions and I’m sure you meant well but you seem to have missed the pulse of the members in my view and you will sometime soon have to reflect on your strategy. If you had supported the need to get a critical mass into the club as quickly as possible and to get competitions going as quickly as possible Pat and Johnny and the ‘club’ may have had some chance. I think you may have misled Pat and Johnny into thinking that they would get a large cohort of members by starting afresh as a new club. Time will tell. My own prediction is that you will get a good few €150 memberships and not so may €420 memberships (which are you?). You will enjoy millionaire’s golf for a brief period but then what.

A sad end for everyone

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry but I doubt land in South County is worth the same as land in Grange.
Also the compensate you for what the land is zoned, I dont think having a golf course or not makes any difference. i.e. the dont care if they are cutting off a green or a back alleyway, whatever the land is designated is all thats important.

Mmmm. I'm still hearing persistent stories about the finances at the Grange that differ from your version.... Was there an EGM recently?

Doing three things Charlie.
Continuing a previous conversation with Greebo
Continuing a discussion on the topic of financial windfalls from compensation.
Adding to the discussion on where people might be going.

GreeBo wrote: »

This made-up tripe has nothing to do with one 2 week old post about compensation (which was posted to again disprove your financial "insights")

Attempting to detract from another club with your lies does nothing but increase the likelihood that your posts are treated as drivel.

At this point I think chances are that most people here have you on Ignore and only see your posts when someone else quotes them.
Bless.

So should I take that as a no?

sheelbee wrote: »

It is affiliated NOW.

Both clubs or just the ladies? I thought the men's wouldn't be through until next week.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Gambino,

Do you know something that is mere mortals don't? Has the ladies club gained affiliation and the gents are still awaiting?

I suspect I know lots more than you mere mortals but as regards the club, better to wait for official word. Won't be long.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Gambino,

Us mere mortals are in awe of you. God help the Kavanaghs with you as a front for their new club. Your condescending tone has started to bore me. You are obviously close to people in the know and your drip feeding of info is painful, more next week!!!!

Well isn't that a shame. You sound more annoyed than bored but I'll take it.

I was going to say more but feck, we'll let events unfold and facts emerge and then we might be able to see what has really been going on around here - and who is to be trusted.

Meanwhile the recruiting sargeants and their wee drummers from other clubs better hurry up. Time is short.

So the New club is called The Lisheen Springs & Country Club...............

ArielAtom wrote: »

Love it, they forgot to tell Gombino they changed the name.

They were going to call it after me but I wouldn't let them.

Pat K was in favour of keeping it. The others thought better of it and probably correctly. Too much baggage.