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The Travelling Myth

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  • #62
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Have you read half of this thread BraziliaNZ? It's filled with people assuming that anyone who doesn't think their stories should be made into a feature length movie is 'bitter'.

    I'm happy for people who travel that enjoy life. Good for them! I'm just not happy when they automatically assume everyone else is jealous of them. And I get the sense that the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous...because their stories appear to be about them just getting drunk. The rest of their adventures could've been condensed into a week-long holiday by the sound of it. I've had those, they're nice. I just don't bang on about them to anyone who'll listen.


  • #63
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    The OP post is a contradictory straw man, or straw men. He whines about the 30 year olds who are single now - a statement without much proof as it happens - , and the Get Locked Out of My Mind in Australia bigrade. Both are different generations. The 30 year olds would have left during the boom, or the start of it, and most would go work with Americans, or English people, or Germans. This is my experience. Modern emigration is more common, so commonly there are more Irish people to drink with.

    We don't know about the modern emigration pattern yet. Will people come home after 2 years, or so, if possible. I think so, meaning this is what australians and others do in reverse. Not the same thing.

    He also misses the fact that a lot of people don't come home. Their travel experience is permanent. Thats a lifestyle change if ever there was one.

    That said you never know until you go, you may find ireland not so bad if you travel; who know aught of Ireland who only Ireland know?

    in any case, the subtext of this argument is the claim that marrying young is good, to the girl across the road, in the housing estate. Each to their own, but there must be a sense of insecurity if you have to bring this up.


  • #64
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    No matter where you go you take yourself with you ;)
    True . And for this very reason the only real escapism open to us is in a big bag of drugs, on a prayer mat or at the end of a rope.


  • #65
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    leggo wrote: »
    Have you read half of this thread BraziliaNZ? It's filled with people assuming that anyone who doesn't think their stories should be made into a feature length movie is 'bitter'.

    Strawman argument. Nobody said their travelling experience should be made into a feature length film. You are clutching at staws if you must resort to hyperbole.
    I'm happy for people who travel that enjoy life. Good for them! I'm just not happy when they automatically assume everyone else is jealous of them. And I get the sense that the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous...because their stories appear to be about them just getting drunk. The rest of their adventures could've been condensed into a week-long holiday by the sound of it. I've had those, they're nice. I just don't bang on about them to anyone who'll listen.

    So it's not travelling per se that you have a problem with. It's when people talk about their travels - is that it? That tactic is called "moving the goalposts" in debate. Look up the term while you are also looking up "strawman". You make yet more false assupmtions: "the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous". It sounds like you are creating all this in your head. People travel because they enjoy the experience. It's not all about you. And for the record, I never met another Irish person when I spent a year in South Korea.


  • #66
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Daith wrote: »
    Canada.

    Would you blame them? What are they supposed to do, hang out with the culturally rich Canadians? Christ... I spent a year in that country, most dull place on earth.


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  • #67
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    leggo wrote: »
    Have you read half of this thread BraziliaNZ? It's filled with people assuming that anyone who doesn't think their stories should be made into a feature length movie is 'bitter'.

    I'm happy for people who travel that enjoy life. Good for them! I'm just not happy when they automatically assume everyone else is jealous of them. And I get the sense that the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous...because their stories appear to be about them just getting drunk. The rest of their adventures could've been condensed into a week-long holiday by the sound of it. I've had those, they're nice. I just don't bang on about them to anyone who'll listen.

    re your first paragraph? what are you on about? That sounds like a whole lotta paranoia on your part.

    Re. your second paragraph - I think it is you that is the jealous one - you can't seem to stand hearing about people having fun - why on earth do you hang around with them - can't you go find some bitter, serious people to hang with.

    :D


  • #68
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Hardly moving the goalposts now lads, your persistent interjections calling me 'bitter' have changed this conversation considerably. Again, psychological evaluations should probably be save for actual psychologists.

    But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking that everyone who doesn't share your experiences is just jealous, then go ahead by all means. You can say to your friends, "Haters gonna hate." People in situations like yours often do that!


  • #69
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    leggo wrote: »
    Hardly moving the goalposts now lads, your persistent interjections calling me 'bitter' have changed this conversation considerably. Again, psychological evaluations should probably be save for actual psychologists.

    But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking that everyone who doesn't share your experiences is just jealous, then go ahead by all means. You can say to your friends, "Haters gonna hate." People in situations like yours often do that!

    If you read our posts properly you will find that that we are not saying that everyone who doesn't share our experiences are bitter.

    We are only saying that you are bitter.

    Please read it properly


  • #70
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    And you have made your point, loud and clear. So have I. This argument is now going around in circles.

    Now, can you please, for a moment, consider that others may have a differing opinion and are entitled to it. If that bothers you, then you can just forget this topic ever existed. Or you can just continue to derail it in case you read something else that hits a nerve.


  • #71
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    leggo wrote: »
    Hardly moving the goalposts now lads, your persistent interjections calling me 'bitter' have changed this conversation considerably. Again, psychological evaluations should probably be save for actual psychologists.

    But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking that everyone who doesn't share your experiences is just jealous, then go ahead by all means. You can say to your friends, "Haters gonna hate." People in situations like yours often do that!

    You are not responding to any of the posts.
    1. Where did anyone say their travel experience should be made into a feature length film? Quote the post, if you'd be so kind.

    2. Do you really think people only go abroad to make you jealous? Do you realise how self-centred that is?

    Like I said, it's all in your head. Maybe you should see a psychologist to work on your problems.


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  • #72
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    leggo wrote: »
    And you have made your point, loud and clear. So have I. This argument is now going around in circles.

    Now, can you please, for a moment, consider that others may have a differing opinion and are entitled to it. If that bothers you, then you can just forget this topic ever existed. Or you can just continue to derail it in case you read something else that hits a nerve.

    Whose derailing anything? Is this thread not a discussion on your OP? Are you saying you won't countenance disagreement in "your" thread, thats not how it works.


  • #73
    LLU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 407 ✭✭LLU


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    Ad hominem. The last resort when the thread isn't going the way you planned.

    Seriously mate, go and travel. You'll be glad you did. Ireland will still be here if you want to return.

    Er, he never implied he was opposed to travel, or that he wouldn't be glad if he did.

    It's people who think that you are inferior just because you haven't or don't want to travel that are the problem.


  • #74
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Whose derailing anything? Is this thread not a discussion on your OP? Are you saying you won't countenance disagreement in "your" thread, thats not how it works.

    No, but we're at four pages of disagreement now and all points seem have been made repetitively, so must we drum the argument into the ground further or should we allow others to speak? What do you think?


  • #75
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    leggo wrote: »
    And you have made your point, loud and clear. So have I. This argument is now going around in circles.

    Now, can you please, for a moment, consider that others may have a differing opinion and are entitled to it. If that bothers you, then you can just forget this topic ever existed. Or you can just continue to derail it in case you read something else that hits a nerve.

    are you saying that by having an alternative opinion to your own, we are "derailing" the topic

    Do you know the function of Boards.ie???

    it is to put down opinions on various topics

    but in your eyes, you seem to think that by have a different opinion to you, we are "derailing the topic" - maybe you should just not post here and talk into the mirror - that way you will get the answer you want every time.

    :D:D


  • #76
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    leggo wrote: »
    No, but we're at four pages of disagreement now and all points seem have been made repetitively, so must we drum the argument into the ground further or should we allow others to speak? What do you think?

    What does "allow others to speak" mean? Who is stopping these mysterious "others", cant they chime in as they want?


  • #77
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    are you saying that by having an alternative opinion to your own, we are "derailing" the topic

    Do you know the function of Boards.ie???

    it is to put down opinions on various topics

    but in your eyes, you seem to think that by have a different opinion to you, we are "derailing the topic" - maybe you should just not post here and talk into the mirror - that way you will get the right answer every time.

    :D:D

    The topic is, as stated quite clearly in the first line of the OP:

    "When it comes to travelling the world, what is the line between making a beneficial life decision and just 'running away from your problems'?"

    Whether I am bitter or not isn't relevant to that question.


  • #78
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    leggo wrote: »
    No, but we're at four pages of disagreement now and all points seem have been made repetitively, so must we drum the argument into the ground further or should we allow others to speak? What do you think?

    You say you want an intelligent discussion of your OP, but then you repeatedly refuse to respond to any of the points put to you. I made a point about your strawmen arguments in post 65 and again in post 71.

    It seems like you only want an echo chamber and will only listen to people who agree with you.


  • #79
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    If you're going to play that card, at least make sure your questions are damning my point. These are stupid questions:
    1. Where did anyone say their travel experience should be made into a feature length film? Quote the post, if you'd be so kind.

    Clearly being facetious. You're going to need to learn about tone if you want to get into psychology. It's pertaining to your belief that I have to be 'bitter' if I question some people's motives for travelling or how they use that time.
    2. Do you really think people only go abroad to make you jealous? Do you realise how self-centred that is?

    You're personalising the argument to detract from the subject at hand. That's a strawman.


  • #80
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    leggo,

    we can't all be wrong - I think the problem lies with yourself. :D


  • #81
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    leggo wrote: »
    Clearly being facetious. You're going to need to learn about tone if you want to get into psychology. It's pertaining to your belief that I have to be 'bitter' if I question some people's motives for travelling or how they use that time.

    Then don't be facetious. It doesn't progress your argument. However, I'm glad you acknowledge that it's (yet another) false statement by you.
    You're personalising the argument to detract from the subject at hand. That's a strawman.

    No, you personalised the argument. You said that people only travel abroad to make you jealous. Very self-centred and egotistical thing to say. As if people will spend over a grand to go to Australia just to make leggo back home in Ireland jealous. Crazy thing to say. The world doesn't revolve around you and I doubt you even entered your friends' thoughts while they were having the time of their lives.


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  • #82
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    All...four...of you?

    Really, you think four people who agree on the same point can't be wrong? More people have thanked my OP than that...(not that that makes me 'right')


  • #83
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    leggo wrote: »
    If you're going to play that card, at least make sure your questions are damning my point. These are stupid questions:



    Clearly being facetious. You're going to need to learn about tone if you want to get into psychology. It's pertaining to your belief that I have to be 'bitter' if I question some people's motives for travelling or how they use that time.



    You're personalising the argument to detract from the subject at hand. That's a strawman.

    The entire OP is personal. YOu have created any number of straw men. 30 somethings with no direction who yet managed to live aboard, and remain single. This is hardly my experience, most people who go abroad for work would get more, not less experience. This then is contrasted with the Irish people who drink in Australia, a different generation, and probably a caricature of most Irish emigration.

    Having built up your sad straw men, you then ask a loaded question. We're responding to the entire post.

    The answer to this question"


    "When it comes to travelling the world, what is the line between making a beneficial life decision and just 'running away from your problems'?"

    Is, it depends on the person. So that is an unanswerable question. However, I doubt if many young emigrants are running away from problems.


  • #84
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    However, I doubt if many young emigrants are running away from problems.

    REALLY? The recession and lack of jobs has nothing to do with increased emigration? That's a strong statement...

    We're still going around in circles guys. We've all made our points. Let it go.


  • #85
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    leggo wrote: »
    All...four...of you?

    Really, you think four people who agree on the same point can't be wrong? More people have thanked my OP than that...(not that that makes me 'right')

    Well, we are eighty percent of the sample.


  • #86
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    leggo wrote: »
    REALLY? The recession and lack of jobs has nothing to do with increased emigration? That's a strong statement...

    Is that what you mean by problems? I thought that running away from "problems" means personal problems. Given that you are unhappy with the 30 year olds who left in the boom you seem to want, again, to pay it both ways.

    In any case getting a job abroad to earn experience is not what you claim the Irish emigrant is doing - thats clearly an example of drive and decision making - but you claim that people are just going to get drunk in the beach.
    We're still going around in circles guys. We've all made our points. Let it go.

    What does that mean? I see your post being systematically destroyed and you are trying to worm your way out of answering by not answering the questions posed. As it happens I have answered your - loaded - questions. This is how debate works.


  • #87
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    no one told me this was the plan


  • #88
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    i figured it out.

    Let's say "Roger" sends off for an "American Visa" without telling mum and dad.

    He gets his little visa and is very excited.

    He shows it to mum and dad.

    mum and dad have conversation about letting Roger go off by himself. They cannot let their little precious go so they convince him that staying here is much much better - no need to be having drinks and fun in strange place while learning new cultures - sure that's only running away from your problems.

    Roger stays and home and wishes he could go.

    When his friends come back on holiday spending their money and telling stores of the fun times, Roger can't take it and becomes bitter and twisted.


    Does anyone know Roger??


  • #89
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Is that what you mean by problems? I thought that running away from "problems" means personal problems. Given that you are unhappy with the 30 year olds who left in the boom you seem to want, again, to pay it both ways.

    Well you thought wrong. That's been a recurring theme with your posts in this discussion.

    I'm not unhappy with them. I'm merely suggesting that their travels don't appear to have made their lives any better. Perhaps they weren't productive? Perhaps travelling isn't necessarily the solution to a lack of direction in life?

    And, if not, how is it and isn't it constructive? That's the subject. It's not as simple as, "IS TRAVEL GOOD OR BAD??"
    In any case getting a job abroad to earn experience is not what you claim the Irish emigrant is doing - thats clearly an example of drive and decision making - but you claim that people are just going to get drunk in the beach.

    If you're saying that my conclusions are sweeping, then how is this not? ALL Irish emigrants are showing drive and decision making by travelling? Nobody's just gone away because all of their friends have, or because "this country has gone to the dogs" and they assume Oz will have some kind of an answer? No, if you get on an airplane, it's just overwhelmingly positive. How do you not realise the ****e you're spouting here?
    What does that mean? I see your post being systematically destroyed and you are trying to worm your way out of answering by not answering the questions posed. As it happens I have answered your - loaded - questions. This is how debate works.

    Well it appears that you don't seem to grasp the nuanced argument at hand here...so I wouldn't be making any declarations of victory on the basis of not being able to understand the point.

    Debate works by me stating my point, you stating yours, then everyone else weighing in in the hope of reaching somewhat of a consensus or progressing the argument. I've stated mine, you've stated yours, the process has been repeated ridiculously for a while now, now let's drop it.


  • #90
    leggo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    i figured it out.

    Let's say "Roger" sends off for an "American Visa" without telling mum and dad.

    He gets his little visa and is very excited.

    He shows it to mum and dad.

    mum and dad have conversation about letting Roger go off by himself. They cannot let their little precious go so they convince him that staying here is much much better - no need to be having drinks and fun in strange place while learning new cultures - sure that's only running away from your problems.

    Roger stays and home and wishes he could go.

    When his friends come back on holiday spending their money and telling stores of the fun times, Roger can't take it and becomes bitter and twisted.


    Does anyone know Roger??

    Nice try. But what if Roger was making headway after years of groundwork in his dream job, earning decent money and didn't need to give it all up for the sake of a tan, as he had actual workable options worth exploring at home?

    Travelling might work for someone who was still trying to find their way, everyone has to somehow, but it mightn't work for others. I have that respect for people who do so. Your one-way view of life (that 'Roger' needs to travel or is less of a person) doesn't seem to, and that ultimately hampers your argument.


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  • #91
    byronbay2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭byronbay2


    Wow, the trolling is getting outrageous now! Don't let them beat you down Leggo - I think you are making an excellent argument in spite of extreme provocation. I don't think I could have stayed so calm!


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