Running Aimlessly Down Under - From 54 to 53 sec 400m

Woke up this morning not feeling great but improved significantly throughout the morning so decided to go ahead with this evenings track session. We didn't quite get that storm, but it rained all day long, and so the track was full of puddles. Not good weather for sprinting. Due to the conditions I decided against using my racing flats as they would have got destroyed. Instead I used my road running shoes. 800m jog to warm up, then 3x100m strides.

Today's session was exactly like last week and I did 3x300m with 10 minutes recovery. All the reps were run hard. As I was using my road running shoes I decided to forget about time as I'm not able to get up onto my toes very well in those shoes. Today was more about effort levels and getting through the session. I have no time at all for the first 2 reps, but for the last one I know I ran a 49 as the coach was timing us (for the other 2 reps he was timing those who were doing the 500 and 400, and so the people who just did 300s didnt get a time).

Pretty happy with that 49, as it is just 1 second off what I did on the final rep last week. I felt much fresher throughout the session this time, and given the terrible conditions and the non-sprinting shoes, I was happy to be so close to that time. One of the guys did that last rep in 46, and he's about 5 seconds faster than me over 400m, so not too bad.

Still not completely 100%, so hoping that this cold buggers off for good very soon.

ecoli wrote: »

If your on antibiotics its more than just the cold. IMO you shouldn't be doing any training. Weight training is just as severe on your immune system as running (just because its indoors doesn't have any bearing)
Trying to train through is only gonna delay recovery at best or at worst cause a complete relapse. Be smart about it and take the hit of a few days as opposed to weeks

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'm with ecoli on this, I've done the training while on antibiotics - it's counter productive. Leave it be and just rest up, you're on antibiotics for a reason, let your body recover before putting it under more stress.

Yeh it's a bacterial infection in my throat/ trachea.

I asked the doctor about my training and he said I'd be fine to do work in the gym, but to take things very easily with the running. Even though I said it was sprinting that I do, I guess when somebody says running they just assume jogging, which is what he was recommending I think, which wouldn't be of much benefit anyway, healthy or sick.

Maybe I should get a second opinion off somebody I know in the medical profession.

The antibiotics finish up Wednesday evening, so perhaps I could skip my Monday gym session and aim to be back for my Wednesday session, just as I am finishing up the anti-biotics.

The thoughts of undoing all the good of the last 6 weeks is hard to take. It's frustrating how this sh1te just comes out of nowhere! Imagine if this happened to an Olympic athlete the week before the Games. What on earth would such a person do?

Bit of a frustrating one today. Back to the track for a 3x300m with 10 minutes recovery. Conditions were nice so went back into the racing flats again, and ran more up on my toes today, after last week being in my road shoes and running more natural.

Messed up the timing of the first rep but at a guess it was around 47. The next rep felt better and I got closer this time to one of the other guys who was also doing 3x300 and finished in 46, probably only half a second down on him (a 10.6 runner over 100m in his day, but never faster than 54-55 for 400m. Not as fast these days).

The 3rd rep was a bit of a let down though after 2 nice reps. After 75m I felt a light twitch in my left calf. I assumed it was a calf strain coming on, so I stopped running on my toes and ran more flat footed for another 75m and then I felt it again and I immediately stepped off the track. Would have been stupid to try run any further through that.

Did an 800m warm down, and actually picked up the pace gradually through it, though nothing hectic at all, to sort of test my calf to make sure I was ok. No problems.

It was the right thing to do but I hate not finishing sessions. Puts me in a slightly bad mood, but just got to take it as it comes and get over it.

I'm thinking that I may go back to doing these 3x300 sessions in my road shoes. It's what I did all last year. It never affected my ability to run on my toes properly come races. Yes my times may end up being 1 second or so slower during these reps each time but at this time of the year it is the effort level that counts, not the times. I know I am guaranteed to get through the session with the road shoes and the slightly flatter footed running style. Running on your toes for multiple reps places tremendous demands on the calves. Maybe my strength there is still not strong enough. Or maybe I am worrying too much about having good running form. I got praised by one of the guys from Collingwood who was training who said after my 2nd rep that my form looks nice, which I was happy to hear.

On the otherhand, they say you should run in training as you plan to run in races, so that means, always on the balls of your feet.

It's a tough one. Thinking to be done, decisions to be made ahead of next week.

If anybody has any input on this it would be appreciated.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I definitely think fast runs tempos/intervals/hills should be done in racing flats. That's when you're putting your body under a similar sort of stess that it would come up against in races so you're simulating how the shoes will work for you.

Maybe try a few short, easy slow runs in them if you're looking at getting yourself stronger and used to wearing them. If you throw on racing flats the odd time you race you're essentially doing the one thing we always say to never do on race day and wearing 'new' shoes IMO.

Suppose it's different for everyone but I've never had calf problems from wearing the flats/minimalist shoes for all my runs. Maybe it's the fact you are conciously trying to run on your toes which is putting your calves under extra strain. Is this advised by coaches to specifically run on your toes? You should be naturally landing more towards the front of the foot with the flatter shoes and with the increased pace.

When you were doing this;


Were you thinking about your form at all? thinking about how your foot was landing? Was it a case you just eased off, slowed down and got more comfortable and then you weren't feeling it anymore?

Yeh pretty much. When I run in my road shoes I just run and dont think about it. I don't really know if I am heel striking or running on my mid foot or whatever. I just run and do what comes natural. When I wear racing flats and spikes I run more up on the balls of my feet as those shoes are more built for that sort of sprinting form. Talked to the coach today and he said to run in whatever I feel more comfortable training in and that it is all trial and error and some things work for some but not for other and that I just have to figure out what works for me.

Thinking maybe on a 3x300 I could perhaps next week run the first one in my flats and then the next 2 in the running shoes. Something to ponder.

With regards hills and all that my coach said using flats for this is a big no-no. He said keep the flats for only the quality runs and nothing else. Otherwise I'll destroy the flats quickly and destroy myself!

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think you should train for a marathon.

I wonder would training for a sprint in a heavier shoe increase the risk of injury? I'd imagine it might put a greater level of strain on things like calf muscles and ham-strings.

My experience (not that that means much) is that it wouldn't. In fact I'd probably be less likely to get injured given that there is much more support than there is with racing flats and spikes.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I have big miles on some of my flats and could still go out and run 16 miles in them today with no issue. As you say though, what works for some...but you're never going to help your body adapt to the shoes if you're just going to wear them for a couple of miles a week and then wearing your normal shoes for all your other session IMO. A lot of people have problems in races with calves, would have to wonder how much of that is down to them running in shoes they're not used to running in.

Try just running naturally in the racing flats for the fast bits see if the pain persists. Even get someone to film you running in them (fast and slow) and then you can see what your form is like, it's highly likely you'll be up on your toes more anyway just by running in the flats.

Are hill sessions not quality runs?

Nah hill runs are about strength and endurance. In sprinting terms quality runs are on the track doing speed work perfecting technique. He was very adamant that I dont run them anywhere other than the track or I will wear them out.

True about being up on my toes more naturally because of them being flats. It is a lot easier to get up on the toes because the shoe is so light. Same with spikes. In fact running a more "normal" running style in such footwear wouldn't be good for you and could cause heel damage and all sorts of other fun! Running on your toes doesn't come completely naturally though. It takes practice. I'm good at it now, but I wasn't when I started. At this stage the problem isn't actually running on my toes, but the ability to run on my toes for multiple reps.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Thats bull. I've found racing flats to be very durable and I'm heavier than the recommended weight for using them - sure can't you get a second pair and keep one for racing and one for training? What shoes are you wearing as flats anyway?



I'm not saying run 'normal' (well running on your toes is normal:pac:), what I'm saying is surely you should be relaxing and not overthinking your form while you're doing the fast sets, you're saying you're running on your toes anyway so heel damage shouldn't be a concern at all. By forcing yourself to run in a way that doesn't come naturally you're opening yourself up to injury and putting your entire body under additional stress. You end up tensing other muscles, heart and lungs included which is going to effect your overall performance. That's what your drills are for surely? to get the 'proper' form to come more naturally so you don't have to worry about it when you're doing sessions/racing?

The main injury concern in flats, in my experience, is calf injuries - usually caused by people who are all of a sudden racing in shoes they've only done intervals in or haven't trained at all in and now they're trying to do longer/harder runs/race in them.

The ability to run on your toes for mulitple reps is only going to come from spending more time on your toes/in these shoes. If it means you go through an extra pair or two of racing flats to get there by doing easy miles in them, is it not worth it? You're training your body to be able to run in these shoes for longer in the same way your training your body to be able to hold faster paces for longer or to run for longer. By wearing 'normal' training shoes for speed work surely you're just making the problem of not being able to run on your toes for multiple sets worse?

Definitely think you should record yourself just running in them and play it back in slowmotion to see what you're doing in them without overthinking. You'll probably surprise yourself.

Really don't understand why your coach is adamant you should only wear your flats on the track, different experiences and all that I guess but coach at our club wears flats for all his runs...

Appreciate the input, but I really have got to go with what the coach says with regards leaving the flats for just the track. He's a sprint expert and has 50 years of experience. I generally don't have a clue but I trust his judgement. It's worth noting that the flats I have are astonishingly light. I went for the lightest ones I could find, so as to replicate sprint spikes as much as I could. There were a lot of heavier flats available in the shop. Maybe you have a heavier pair with a little more support?

I see what you are saying, but if I am going to do these reps in flats then I've got to run up on the balls of my feet or it is a waste of time. I used my sprint spikes for 800m last year (ludicrous idea in hindsight) and I most definetely was heal striking. I wasn't capable to run on my toes for 2 laps so I had to adjust to a more natural running style, and that resulted in heal striking. So I'm pretty confident if I was just to run naturally in the flats I'd do the same. Heal striking in flats or spikes, which offer little support is not good. (I wont be doing 800m in sprint spikes this year, will be getting a pair of middle distance spikes which have more cushioning).

ecoli wrote: »

It's definitely an interesting topic. Funny enough I was actually talking shoes with a sprinter (think he like 11.1/.2 runner) and a middle distance guy last week at the club. The topic was to do with a sale on at the moment in one of the shops.

The sprinter admitted to not actually owning a pair of runners. His simply explanation was the only time he would wear them was when he was doing his warm up laps

I also think that RQ has a point in the use of drills for form development. Just wondering do you do many drills? Only ask because there is very little reference in the log (could just be an ommissionb though)

Even though your idea of strength and endurance work not being quality I think majority of sprint training is at an intensity which can be construed as qualilty.

I know its a bit rich us distance people commenting on it but personally I usually use flats for everything from tempo to quicker (and into spikes for very high intensity work

I haven't got to the drills yet. I've mentioned it to the coaches that I want to learn the drills, but at the moment he said the emphasis is on building a base and getting strong. None of the rest of the training group have been doing drills thus far. It certainly is something I am conscious of though and will want to ease them into my training over the next while.

I think the main worry for me is that being a relative novice at this I am worried about injury. Obviously I want to run as fast as I can, but a part of me is a little conservative and wants to do this slowly and smartly. If that means not being able to do multiple reps in my racing flats then that may be just something I may have to sacrifice for awhile for the gain of strength and speed endurance, and getting those damn sessions finished. It's very unfullfilling having to finish a session early and I don't want it to become a regular thing. I guess it is all about working out what works for me, as an individual, best. I'm still only learning the event. The sprinter you refer to has probably been at it for 8-10 years and has a very strong base. Maybe I am wrong.

Certainly is a good discussion though, I agree. It beats my boring gym updates.

First hill session in 2 and a half weeks this afternoon. Did it on a pretty nice steep 150m slightly windy hill in a park near my house. Session was done on my own. I did 6x150m with 4 minute rest between each rep. I messed up the timing of the last rep but the times of the others were:

29-30-30-30-31-?

Have to say I am delighted with those times. Obviously can't compare times between different hills but what pleases me is the fact that the times didn't drop off significantly throughout the session. Would have loved to have known my time for my final rep but no major drama.

So overall not a great week. Got 3 sessions in eventually; a shortened gym session, a good track session which was cut short, and now a nice hill session. Hoping that next week I can push on and get more in.

So next session is the gym on Monday. Before then I've the last 2 days of the European Championships to look forward to. Hoping by the time I get cracking into my next session I will have an inspiring medal winning performance by Fionnuala Britton, and an Olympic qualification 4x400m clocking to inspire me.

EDIT: With regards my racing flats, I've just come across a youtube clip about the exact ones I have. They weight 160g (5.4oz according to a review I read elsewhere). Would this be on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of weight for racing flats?