Ulster Banking Crisis

jonnny68 · 27-06-2012 10:55PM

This is what happens when you move your IT operation to India to cut costs and save money you reap what you sow, they deserve to be punished for this, im a customer and even though i managed to get funds earlier after a lengthy queue and questions galore as well as lots of ID this is a catastrophic fu*k up and serious questions have to be asked how this was allowed to happen, why wasn't there a backup in case of emergencies like this.

I'm already hearing some horror stories from Nat West customers in the UK who are part of the same group RBS.

A_Sober_Paddy · 27-06-2012 11:03PM

I'm very surprised by the loyalty of some of these Ulster bank customers.

If it happened to my bank I'd be out of there...but in fairness I work off cash in hand and try to stay away from the corrupt institutes that we call banks.

Augmerson · 27-06-2012 11:13PM

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

I'm very surprised by the loyalty of some of these Ulster bank customers.

If it happened to my bank I'd be out of there...but in fairness I work off cash in hand and try to stay away from the corrupt institutes that we call banks.

Let us know how that works out for you.

I don't bank with Ulster Bank, but my workplace does and so there is a possibility that I won't get paid tomorrow and rent is this weekend, so even though I don't bank with them, I am still affected.

A_Sober_Paddy · 27-06-2012 11:20PM

Augmerson wrote: »

Let us know how that works out for you.

I don't bank with Ulster Bank, but my workplace does and so there is a possibility that I won't get paid tomorrow and rent is this weekend, so even though I don't bank with them, I am still affected.

How what works for me? Cash in hand? When I worked I either got cash or when it went into the bank, I withdrew it and keep my savings in cash and a little in the credit union...

Savings are kept in a family member's safe, in a house where he has a gun so its fairly safe there.

Firefox11 · 27-06-2012 11:33PM

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

How what works for me? Cash in hand? When I worked I either got cash or when it went into the bank, I withdrew it and keep my savings in cash and a little in the credit union...

Savings are kept in a family member's safe, in a house where he has a gun so its fairly safe there.

No not really. what if someone robs you with an even bigger gun. Shootout??

Fr_Dougal · 27-06-2012 11:47PM

Ulster Bank are not telling the full story here, a friend of mine works in IT security for one of the largest banks in the country and he firmly believes that they were hacked and the nonsense they're spouting is a cover up. Frankly I believe him.

Zebra3 · 28-06-2012 03:39AM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Ulster Bank are not telling the full story here, a friend of mine works in IT security for one of the largest banks in the country and he firmly believes that they were hacked and the nonsense they're spouting is a cover up. Frankly I believe him.

But surely a bank would never lie to the proles?

Shao · 28-06-2012 03:48AM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Ulster Bank are not telling the full story here, a friend of mine works in IT security for one of the largest banks in the country and he firmly believes that they were hacked and the nonsense they're spouting is a cover up. Frankly I believe him.

My partner is in a similar line of work and he also thinks their using the corrupted update to cover up being hacked.

I suppose it's better this way , it would cause a panic.

I just hope that freezing all the transactions and shutting down pretty much their whole service has protected people , or they are in for some trouble!

After reading the ulster bank is down thread , there has been alot of strange movements on certain accounts in the last day or so , people reporting money going missing and card usage , which is crazy when the accounts have basically been inactive for a week.

It's also strange to see people say they have had no problems at all throughout this fiasco , and then see other people who were having issues a week before this started an were being fobbed off in their branch.

I just hope they stick to early next week as it has went on far too long for a broken update.
In my branch today , the lady "entertaining" the queue advised that they had made alot of progress last night , and there was 10 men in suits with laptops in and out of backrooms the whole time I was there.

Namlub · 28-06-2012 04:09AM

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Have been using them since I was 15 and no problems at all apart from this, so I will be staying - the main advantages are the Visa debit card and Saturday branch openings!

There's a Visa debit card?!

Feelgood · 28-06-2012 05:29AM

I work in IT too and have worked in banking and financial institutions during my career.

Most of the IT systems in place in banks these days are unbelievable robust. Data is replicated between multiple sites, high availability software, torage area networks that can restore data in minutes. These systems are designed to prevent downtime and quickly recover from a disaster scenario.

Before changes are made to any IT system, the first thing that happens is critical backup/restore point. That way if you mess something up during a change, all you have to is restore from your backup. If a dodgy change was made, I would expect it to take a maximum of 24 hours to roll back.

There is no way it would take this long to restore from an incident like this. There is definitely a lot more to this story than Ulster bank are letting on, I reckon they were hacked too.

booth70 · 28-06-2012 05:40AM

jonnny68 wrote: »

This is what happens when you move your IT operation to India to cut costs and save money you reap what you sow, they deserve to be punished for this, im a customer and even though i managed to get funds earlier after a lengthy queue and questions galore as well as lots of ID this is a catastrophic fu*k up and serious questions have to be asked how this was allowed to happen, why wasn't there a backup in case of emergencies like this.

I'm already hearing some horror stories from Nat West customers in the UK who are part of the same group RBS.

Nothing to do with India.......

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ulster-bank-tech-glitch-bnotb-caused-by-technician-in-india-556978.html

Mr Simpson · 28-06-2012 05:57AM

Namlub wrote: »

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Have been using them since I was 15 and no problems at all apart from this, so I will be staying - the main advantages are the Visa debit card and Saturday branch openings!

There's a Visa debit card?!

Yep, ulster bank have them, aib and boi are getting them. No more Laser Card

**Timbuk2** · 28-06-2012 07:24AM

mmcn90 wrote: »

Yep, ulster bank have them, aib and boi are getting them. No more Laser Card

Also PTSB, they're very handy - you can use them anywhere online that Visa is accepted (so pretty much everywhere), and also use them in-store like you can with Laser, and they are better than Laser for transactions in other countries, since Laser is Irish, whereas Visa is international!

As far as I remember, an EBS Moneymanager account comes with a Mastercard Debit card, which works the exact same!

Pottler · 28-06-2012 07:33AM

Feelgood wrote: »

I work in IT too and have worked in banking and financial institutions during my career.

Most of the IT systems in place in banks these days are unbelievable robust. Data is replicated between multiple sites, high availability software, torage area networks that can restore data in minutes. These systems are designed to prevent downtime and quickly recover from a disaster scenario.

Before changes are made to any IT system, the first thing that happens is critical backup/restore point. That way if you mess something up during a change, all you have to is restore from your backup. If a dodgy change was made, I would expect it to take a maximum of 24 hours to roll back.

There is no way it would take this long to restore from an incident like this. There is definitely a lot more to this story than Ulster bank are letting on, I reckon they were hacked too.

2 lads who work for me are also with Ulster and are having a hard time of it - overdrawn, etc, hacked methinks? Doubt if we are getting the full story. I notice as well that here in our office we have a new security do-dah that generates a new passwrod every time you go to log onto internet banking(not ulster) that the bank rather rapidly issued to us there on monday... I heard that there may be more fun when payrolls are issue at months end -I wonder if the banks computers are not as secure as they thought and perhaps someone is exploiting that? There's definitly a lad sitting in a bunker somwhere on an island, stroking a cat while techies furiously pound keyboards, hoovering up the worlds dosh. Well, maybe not, but maybe..

Shenshen · 28-06-2012 08:25AM

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

I'm very surprised by the loyalty of some of these Ulster bank customers.

If it happened to my bank I'd be out of there...but in fairness I work off cash in hand and try to stay away from the corrupt institutes that we call banks.

As I said, I've been with other Irish banks before.
Apart from this one cock-up, Ulster Bank beats them all hands-down in customer service, availability of services, opening hours, free accounts, interest rates... in short, in every aspect of banking.

I've been with BOI before, who were not able to set up a standing order for 6 months. When I then wanted to cancel it about a year later, they kept transferring the money for another 3 months, telling me every time that, no, sorry, they couldn't reverse that, I'd have to sort it out with the recepient of the money.
You may guess how that went.
When I was with them my wages were always late, I never received them on time, usually about a week late.

My husband is with AIB, anything he transfers from his account to somewhere else takes around 10 days to come through.

So, yes, Ulster Bank f*cked up this time. But the only reason it's in the news is because all customers are affected simulaneously.
Other banks f*ck things up one customer at a time and never make the headlines.

Shenshen · 28-06-2012 08:28AM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Ulster Bank are not telling the full story here, a friend of mine works in IT security for one of the largest banks in the country and he firmly believes that they were hacked and the nonsense they're spouting is a cover up. Frankly I believe him.

It's possible, but unlikely.
I know their systems were due an update. and I also know how badly that CAN go wrong. It usually doesn't, but the potential is always there.
I think the reason they kept quiet about it for so long was to avoid being hacked. They couldn't be sure that the problems they had didn't cause a security breach somewhere.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Shenshen · 28-06-2012 08:30AM

mmcn90 wrote: »

Yep, ulster bank have them, aib and boi are getting them. No more Laser Card

I wouldn't hold my breath.
BOI has been promissing to provide Visa Debit Cards for just about under 2 years now. So far, no sign of them.

Solair · 28-06-2012 08:34AM

I have my BOI Visa Debit card for a few weeks now. Very handy and it also has contactless payment.

Their rollout is well underway.
They're no longer issuing or replacing Laser cards either.

jesus_thats_gre · 28-06-2012 08:39AM

Shenshen wrote: »

I wouldn't hold my breath.
BOI has been promissing to provide Visa Debit Cards for just about under 2 years now. So far, no sign of them.

Got mine in the post last week.

listermint · 28-06-2012 08:47AM

Shenshen wrote: »

It's possible, but unlikely.
I know their systems were due an update. and I also know how badly that CAN go wrong. It usually doesn't, but the potential is always there.
I think the reason they kept quiet about it for so long was to avoid being hacked. They couldn't be sure that the problems they had didn't cause a security breach somewhere.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Of course updates can go wrong, thats why you have rollback, it DOESNT take a week for rollback. At best your talking a number of extremely sweaty hours.

Something isnt right here.

tallus · 28-06-2012 08:48AM

Got mine last week....nothing in this week. They still took charges for missed direct debits through no fault of my own.

Wibbs · 28-06-2012 08:58AM

Feelgood wrote: »

I work in IT too and have worked in banking and financial institutions during my career.

Most of the IT systems in place in banks these days are unbelievable robust. Data is replicated between multiple sites, high availability software, torage area networks that can restore data in minutes. These systems are designed to prevent downtime and quickly recover from a disaster scenario.

Before changes are made to any IT system, the first thing that happens is critical backup/restore point. That way if you mess something up during a change, all you have to is restore from your backup. If a dodgy change was made, I would expect it to take a maximum of 24 hours to roll back.

There is no way it would take this long to restore from an incident like this. There is definitely a lot more to this story than Ulster bank are letting on, I reckon they were hacked too.

I've also heard this more than once from people well versed in IT security, not just the drunk in the pub who installed windows once. The "oh a patch went wrong" explanation seems very odd to me, for all the reasons you gave, never mind the long delay in fixing it, a delay that's increasing.

Pottler wrote: »

I wonder if the banks computers are not as secure as they thought and perhaps someone is exploiting that? There's definitly a lad sitting in a bunker somwhere on an island, stroking a cat while techies furiously pound keyboards, hoovering up the worlds dosh. Well, maybe not, but maybe..

maybe indeed... Credit card fraud is up 69% since 09 even with all the new security features. I had my CC hit. 500 odd quid was taken in a shop in some small town in the US of A. How the hell did they do that then? The bank were laudably quick at refunding the money, with little enough explanation from me. They weren't so quick at telling me how some gimp was able to get my name, my CC number and my chip and pin number halfway across the world.

It's not that the banks aren't secure, it's just that it doesn't require vast resources to put together a desktop computer or network of them to number crunch passwords etc. Ill make a prediction now, that in a few years time your passwords are going to be huge, or generated ina different more complex way. Gone will be the days when the name of your first born will suffice.

I'm quite sure government agencies have looked at targeting banks in "unfriendly nations". Not unlike the virus that showed up in the Iranian government computer systems. What better way to cause mass panic and destabilise a society than to lock up e money and create no confidence in local financial institutions? This Ulster bank situation may not be such an attack, but we will see such in our lifetimes I reckon.

NiallFH · 28-06-2012 09:00AM

I'm with them and wouldnt bother leaving, I had money in my account prior to it so it hasn't had any effect on me really. If it had though I still don't think I would change though, I have never had any bother with them before this.

Also I used to be with the Abbey (Santander) and they were a pain. Also the people working in the branch near me all seemed depressed lol

Cee-Jay-Cee · 28-06-2012 09:00AM

dee. wrote: »

Mine was working this morning, now it won't load anything except my available balance. They could confirm the money was taken from my account but thats the most they could help...great service

Spend away yourself and then claim it wasnt you and have it refunded. That'll learn them not to utilise 40yr old computer systems and get rid of all their senior IT engineers in an effort to cut costs!

wilkie2006 · 28-06-2012 09:03AM

I'm with Natwest (also part of the RBS group) and, although it's been a pain int the arse, I'm not going to bother changing banks. If it happens again I won't be as forgiving though.

Apparently people are more likely to get divorced than to change their banks:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/in-praise-of-switching-your-bank

What do the bankers do – work tirelessly on your behalf, or work for themselves on your money? We have an option – to move our money, but few of us actually do. In fact, we are more likely to divorce than change our bank account, and this despite a growing list of grievances.

Plazaman · 28-06-2012 09:03AM

I think this highlights how much Ulster Bank are behind the times with their systems and work practices. As had been stated in previous posts every new update to a payments system always should ensure the old (working) system is on standby to rollback to at a moments notice.

I'm not a customer of Ulster Bank but did wander in to their branch on two occasions as it's the nearest bank to my workplace and it was lunchtime. The first time I wanted to get a Bank Draft and the second time I wanted to buy dollars. On both occasions I was refused service as I didn't have an account even though I had cash for both transactions in my hand.

On the second occasion I asked what if I was a tourist coming over to change money. "No problem", says the snotty cow behind the counter, "we convert foreign currency to Euros but don't sell it to non account holders". Due to it being a small enough branch, the walk to the door through the queue of customers was rather embarrassing. So fúck you Ulster Bank, delighted for your troubles*

*P.S. This delight does not carry forward to their customers who I feel sorry for at being highly inconvenienced and told nothing.

Shenshen · 28-06-2012 09:07AM

listermint wrote: »

Of course updates can go wrong, thats why you have rollback, it DOESNT take a week for rollback. At best your talking a number of extremely sweaty hours.

Something isnt right here.

I agree, the fact that the rollback wasn't possible is fishy.

However, I have lived through a rather similar disaster in a previous job - huge IT company with server famrs all across Europe. There was a power cut in the Italian server farm one day, which was no big deal as there were generators providing backup electricity. Not a glitch in services.
The problem occured once the power retruned - there was a surge, and the server farm caught fire. As I understnad, there wasn't a lot left of the servers once the fire had been put out.
Not a problem either, you would think. There were backup servers, after all.

There were back up servers, all right. In the same building as the live ones, just across the corridor.

It took us nearly a month to get operations for Italy back to anywhere near normal.

Now, a hack is definitely possible. But then, so is a massive cock-up.

smash · 28-06-2012 09:13AM

Shenshen wrote: »

My husband is with AIB, anything he transfers from his account to somewhere else takes around 10 days to come through.

Well that's not true, or it's other bank's problems because AIB-AIB is instant and AIB-BOI is 2 days. I know because I do it. However BOI-AIB takes a week.

mimsy · 28-06-2012 09:15AM

Plazaman wrote: »

I think this highlights how much Ulster Bank are behind the times with their systems and work practices. As had been stated in previous posts every new update to a payments system always should ensure the old (working) system is on standby to rollback to at a moments notice.

I'm not a customer of Ulster Bank but did wander in to their branch on two occasions as it's the nearest bank to my workplace and it was lunchtime. The first time I wanted to get a Bank Draft and the second time I wanted to buy dollars. On both occasions I was refused service as I didn't have an account even though I had cash for both transactions in my hand.

On the second occasion I asked what if I was a tourist coming over to change money. "No problem", says the snotty cow behind the counter, "we convert foreign currency to Euros but don't sell it to non account holders". Due to it being a small enough branch, the walk to the door through the queue of customers was rather embarrassing. So fúck you Ulster Bank, delighted for your troubles*

*P.S. This delight does not carry forward to their customers who I feel sorry for at being highly inconvenienced and told nothing.

To be fair, I worked in a UK based branch of a different Irish bank 15 years ago and the policy of issuing bank drafts only to customers was existent then due to money laundering guidelines.
I would not expect it to have changed in the interim.

listermint · 28-06-2012 09:17AM

Shenshen wrote: »

I agree, the fact that the rollback wasn't possible is fishy.

However, I have lived through a rather similar disaster in a previous job - huge IT company with server famrs all across Europe. There was a power cut in the Italian server farm one day, which was no big deal as there were generators providing backup electricity. Not a glitch in services.
The problem occured once the power retruned - there was a surge, and the server farm caught fire. As I understnad, there wasn't a lot left of the servers once the fire had been put out.
Not a problem either, you would think. There were backup servers, after all.

There were back up servers, all right. In the same building as the live ones, just across the corridor.

It took us nearly a month to get operations for Italy back to anywhere near normal.

Now, a hack is definitely possible. But then, so is a massive cock-up.

Thats not a backup, true backup is off site. Its called disaster recovery and any IT organisation worth its salt uses it. Shared global international data.

I dont understand how a large organisation with multiple data centres would allow its backups to be stored within the same facility

Ulster Banking Crisis

Comments