The ONLY After Hours thread about the European Championships.

Fratton Fred · 25-06-2012 11:23AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

There are those in Ireland so politically correctly up themselves they can't enjoy anything competitive between the two islands lest they be called rabid IRA dogs. It's a game of footie, ffs
I reckon if you took a vox pop of sentiment in England before Germany played somebody like Sweden then you would find some fairly deep grained predjiduces?
I wouldn't worry too much about it, it's all just good old fashioned tribal rivally. Our oh so PC brigade don't do tribal stuff...so gauche!

The tribal rivalry only goes one way though.

I watched the Ireland v Spain game in a pub in London and no one was cheering when Spain scored, in fact quite the opposite.

I watched the game last night in a Dublin pub and half the pub were going mental when Italy scored their penalties.

It's not tribal rivalry, its small man syndrome.

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 11:37AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's not tribal rivalry,

Yes it is.

its small man syndrome.

So what, would you rather it expressed itself in some other way? Like crowd violence, bottle throwing thugs, did you not get your fill of that in the English game? Get over yourself. :rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-06-2012 11:37AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

I reckon if you took a vox pop of sentiment in England before Germany played somebody like Sweden then you would find some fairly deep grained predjiduces?
I wouldn't worry too much about it, it's all just good old fashioned tribal rivally. Our oh so PC brigade don't do tribal stuff...so gauche!

No - to be honest, the English fans I've watched games with (and there have been quiet a few) have been pretty neutral to be honest. And, as Fratton Fred said above, very supportive of Ireland.

The Gremans are, in the eyes of the majority of English fans over here, a quality team and would be worthy winners of the tournament.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-06-2012 11:40AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

So what, would you rather it expressed itself in some other way? Like crowd violence, bottle throwing thugs, did you not get your fill of that in the English game? Get over yourself. :rolleyes:

I'd reather we got the **** over it and didn't feel the petty need to express it in the first place. I'd also we didn't resort to 20 year old arguments and dead stereotypes in order to defend ourselves.

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 11:52AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I'd reather we got the **** over it and didn't feel the petty need to express it in the first place. I'd also we didn't resort to 20 year old arguments and dead stereotypes in order to defend ourselves.

As I said, you can live in a politically correct cloud cuckoo land with the others. The real world doesn't work that way.
It's no different to the tribalism between the two Manchester teams.
It's harmless tribal rivallry, the lifeblood of competition, sport would become sterile without it. The past-time of purists and afficiandos of the perfect game. Yuck! What would the history of soccer be like without the great rivallry's? England-Germany, Brazil-Argentina, Spain-Portugal, Ireland-England?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-06-2012 12:04PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

As I said, you can live in a politically correct cloud cuckoo land with the others. The real world doesn't work that way.

I think you posted this in the wrong thread...? Absolutely nothign to do with the argument presented.

It's no different to the tribalism between the two Manchester teams.
It's harmless tribal rivallry, the lifeblood of competition, sport would become sterile without it.

No, because rivalry is two teams going against each other. This is one team going against a team that at worst doesn't care, at best, is actively supportive.

To put it another way: when do you ever see masses of Man Cty fans cheering Man United from a neutral perspective...???

The past-time of purists and afficiandos of the perfect game. Yuck! What would the history of soccer be like without the great rivallry's? England-Germany, Brazil-Argentina, Spain-Portugal, Ireland-England?

That last one is not one of the "great" rivalries. They don't hate us.

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 12:19PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think you posted this in the wrong thread...? Absolutely nothign to do with the argument presented.

Yes it has, you try to ignore the reason international sport exists in the first place. If it weren't so, why don't we select two teams of the most talented footballers in the world and let them play each other, Team X versus Team Y.
Once you name them after a tribe....things have a tendency to get tribal. Things tend to get heated if their is a history between the tribes outside of football. That's the real world, the cloud cuckoo land is expecting it to be like Team X versus Team Y. :rolleyes:

No, because rivalry is two teams going against each other. This is one team going against a team that at worst doesn't care, at best, is actively supportive.

And wither the fan in this world of yours? Quietly watching the beautiful game in the stand? :rolleyes:

They don't hate us.

Hand me down the violin! It's just a game ffs. You'll be taking the ball home next! :rolleyes:

kfallon · 25-06-2012 12:25PM

The sooner the semi finals are here and we can move on from last night's game, the better imo!

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 12:41PM

kfallon wrote: »

we can move on

Oh Gawd, not that again! Group hug?

kfallon · 25-06-2012 12:43PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Group hug?

Only if you are rooting for The Germans....otherwise get away from me :pac:

Duggys Housemate · 25-06-2012 01:40PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The tribal rivalry only goes one way though.

I watched the Ireland v Spain game in a pub in London and no one was cheering when Spain scored, in fact quite the opposite.

I watched the game last night in a Dublin pub and half the pub were going mental when Italy scored their penalties.

It's not tribal rivalry, its small man syndrome.

Some of your lads still sing No Surrender to the IRA, when on tour. A sentiment I happen to agree with, and nor to the UVF either, but it seems dated.

I believe the percentage of Irish people who say they support England if not playing Ireland, is about the same, or higher than the percentage of English people who support Ireland if not playing England - or other "home" nations. If you take away people of Irish descent it evens out. However, the anti-English mob are vocal in pubs, and the No Surrender lads are vocal on tour.

I happened to be on a tube when an English game finished. lots of people came out from a pub above Baker Loo with the English jerseys singing No Surrender. The Tube got packed, and seemed hostile - and I don't feel that with GAA or Irish soccer or Rugger fans.

I kept quiet, I have to tell ya.

That said I support England, not with my gut though. When they lose I am not devastated.

Duggys Housemate · 25-06-2012 01:45PM

And these lads. Who now remembers these lads?

Fratton Fred · 25-06-2012 02:27PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Some of your lads still sing No Surrender to the IRA, when on tour. A sentiment I happen to agree with, and nor to the UVF either, but it seems dated.

I believe the percentage of Irish people who say they support England if not playing Ireland, is about the same, or higher than the percentage of English people who support Ireland if not playing England - or other "home" nations. If you take away people of Irish descent it evens out. However, the anti-English mob are vocal in pubs, and the No Surrender lads are vocal on tour.

I happened to be on a tube when an English game finished. lots of people came out from a pub above Baker Loo with the English jerseys singing No Surrender. The Tube got packed, and seemed hostile - and I don't feel that with GAA or Irish soccer or Rugger fans.

I kept quiet, I have to tell ya.

That said I support England, not with my gut though. When they lose I am not devastated.

sorry, what point are you trying to make?

kfallon · 25-06-2012 02:31PM

I used to enjoy this thread once upon a time

Duggys Housemate · 25-06-2012 02:32PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The tribal rivalry only goes one way though.

I watched the Ireland v Spain game in a pub in London and no one was cheering when Spain scored, in fact quite the opposite.

I watched the game last night in a Dublin pub and half the pub were going mental when Italy scored their penalties.

It's not tribal rivalry, its small man syndrome.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

sorry, what point are you trying to make?

See the quote above you. Your quote.That was the point I was rebutting. The rivalry hardly goes one way if your fans are singing No Surrender to the IRA.

Fratton Fred · 25-06-2012 02:38PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

See the quote above you. Your quote.That was the point I was rebutting. The rivalry hardly goes one way if your fans are singing No Surrender to the IRA.

Hardly, unless the IRA is considered representative of Irish football fans.

Besides, the amount of people who sing that is probably on par with the amount of Irish fans who chant IRA, IRA, during fields of athenry.

Super-Rush · 25-06-2012 02:43PM

kfallon wrote: »

I used to enjoy this thread once upon a time

Yeah me too.

Lads quit the 1916, us against them bullsh1t.

Seriously.

Duggys Housemate · 25-06-2012 02:45PM

Ok, but its a whole two days til the next match. So ill pop over to the Wimbeldon forum.

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 02:49PM

Super-Rush wrote: »

Yeah me too.

Lads quit the 1916, us against them bullsh1t.

Seriously.

Yeh, let's leave them to feel sorry for themselves and play up being the victim. :rolleyes:
Honestly, the stuff people are let away with on these forums because people are too afraid to be honest. :rolleyes: Sad.

ballsymchugh · 25-06-2012 02:51PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Hardly, unless the IRA is considered representative of Irish football fans.

Besides, the amount of people who sing that is probably on par with the amount of Irish fans who chant IRA, IRA, during fields of athenry.

actually, in gdansk and poznan for the last two matches, i kept an ear out for anyone shouting that during the fields of athenrye, but didn't hear one.
was pleasantly surprised, as there's usually one or two clowns that shout it, but not once did i hear it over there.
maybe the irish fans have turned a corner?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-06-2012 03:05PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes it has, you try to ignore the reason international sport exists in the first place. If it weren't so, why don't we select two teams of the most talented footballers in the world and let them play each other, Team X versus Team Y.
Once you name them after a tribe....things have a tendency to get tribal. Things tend to get heated if their is a history between the tribes outside of football. That's the real world, the cloud cuckoo land is expecting it to be like Team X versus Team Y. :rolleyes:

That's even fruther from the point. Sport is about proving yourself to be the best at a certain game or attribute. It doesn't give a flying **** where you are from. International football stems from football - not from nationalism.

And wither the fan in this world of yours? Quietly watching the beautiful game in the stand? :rolleyes:

Hand me down the violin! It's just a game ffs. You'll be taking the ball home next! :rolleyes:

When you resort to trolling, I think my argument stands for itself.

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 03:35PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

That's even fruther from the point. Sport is about proving yourself to be the best at a certain game or attribute. It doesn't give a flying **** where you are from. International football stems from football - not from nationalism.

So tell us what the millions of people watching are doing?
The BBC didn't want the 'best' anything last night, they just wanted to WIN.
btw That's what penalties are for, they don't decide who is the best, they decide who WINS.
Get a freaking grip and stop living in some fantasy world of your own making, one you are making because you are primarily feeling sorry for yourself and unloved. :rolleyes:

When you resort to trolling, I think my argument stands for itself.

A troll is somebody who comes on thread spouting stuff that isn't true just to enflame.
Somebody who claims that international sport isn't partisan is deluding themselves in the face of reality. Again, get over yourself and enjoy the game. :rolleyes:

DEFTLEFTHAND · 25-06-2012 03:42PM

I was really disappointed with England last night, Italy were rampant for large parts of the game and its a credit to the stoic English defence that they even managed to get it to pens.

In regards to the English punditry I felt the guys were hopeful and excited but realistic at the same time and in fairness they did give Italy their dues. I don't have a problem if they still allude to 1966 every so often, they won a world cup thats a great achievement. We got to a quarter final without winning a game and harp on about it just as much.

vgv · 25-06-2012 03:44PM

Despite wanting England to win it has to be said justice was done and the better more adventurous team won in the end.England seemed to be aiming for penalties from a long time off,not the best idea considering their history in shootouts.England were very poor in possession-their generosity in giving the ball back to the opposition beyond the halfway line would rival Ireland's.
As for the penalties I thought Joe Hart could have done better.Pirlo's penalty made a fool of him and he deserved it for his gamesmanship.
Spain are tournament favourites for me at this point but even though they are so great in so many ways I dont find their matches that exciting.Its a bit like watching Schumacher when he was driving for Ferrari.He was dominant and imperious but the outcome always seemed oh so predictable.A part of me wants to see Germany or Portugal go and give them a stuffing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-06-2012 03:48PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

So tell us what the millions of people watching are doing?
The BBC didn't want the 'best' anything last night, they just wanted to WIN.
btw That's what penalties are for, they don't decide who is the best, they decide who WINS.

It's a convenience measure, because they can't have replays in such a short space of time. Otherwise, why have the game? Why not just have the penalty shoot otu and be done with it?

Irrlevant point though. The question was: does sport exist for the reaosn of promoting rivalry and tribalism? I still say no for the arguments I have outlined.

Get a freaking grip and stop living in some fantasy world of your own making, one you are making because you are primarily feeling sorry for yourself and unloved. :rolleyes:

A troll is somebody who comes on thread spouting stuff that isn't true just to enflame.

deosn't nessecarily have to be unture - it just has to enflame, which is the intention of both his post and this section of yours. It adds nothing to you point or to the discussion, so what other point does it have?

Somebody who claims that international sport isn't partisan is deluding themselves in the face of reality. Again, get over yourself and enjoy the game. :rolleyes:

... except that is not what I argued, now is it? I argued this, as I posted above:
does sport exist for the reason of promoting rivalry and tribalism? I still say no...

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 03:57PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I was really disappointed with England last night, Italy were rampant for large parts of the game and its a credit to the stoic English defence that they even managed to get it to pens.

In regards to the English punditry I felt the guys were hopeful and excited but realistic at the same time and in fairness they did give Italy their dues. I don't have a problem if they still allude to 1966 every so often, they won a world cup thats a great achievement. We got to a quarter final without winning a game and harp on about it just as much.

I think they where flattered in what turned out to be the easiest group.
The draw against France was not a tremendous achievement when you look at what they had to offer subsequently. The Swedish game was just 2 mediocre teams having a ding dong and Sweden could just as easily have won it.
I laughed my way through the halftime punditry in the England game tbh. The consensus was that 'England where playing well' was a joke. Without a doubt the RTE panel of Giles Brady and Dunphy wouldn't delude themselves to that degree. Always, always in the BBC punditry is the question, can we go all the way. The answers are always....'yes'. They where at it subliminally last night with the 'FATE' And 'DESTINY' inserts. Had they won.....we would have been deluged :rolleyes:

kfallon · 25-06-2012 04:30PM

So the semi finals.....anyone come up with a bet or a prediction for both games?

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 04:34PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It's a convenience measure, because they can't have replays in such a short space of time. Otherwise, why have the game? Why not just have the penalty shoot otu and be done with it?

It's because it's primarily a game and a competition provided for an audience. Audiences made up of citizens from each country who cheer almost exclusively for their countries. Do you need diagrams?

Irrlevant point though. The question was: does sport exist for the reaosn of promoting rivalry and tribalism? I still say no for the arguments I have outlined.

Sport doesn't exist to 'promote' rivalry and tribalism, what we know as sport, emerged from tribal rivalry. To say otherwise is just nonsense. Man against man (or woman), parish against parish, county against county and country against country....all of them watched and supported by partisan crowds.

deosn't nessecarily have to be unture - it just has to enflame, which is the intention of both his post and this section of yours. It adds nothing to you point or to the discussion, so what other point does it have?

I have been honest about my partisanship and why I am that way. You are being less than honest in deconstructing what sport actually is.

... except that is not what I argued, now is it? I argued this, as I posted above:
does sport exist for the reason of promoting rivalry and tribalism? I still say no...

Nobody claimed that, including your good self, until now. Remember, you where the one who came on thread intimating that it had to do with 800 years of oppression. :rolleyes:

jaspertheghost · 25-06-2012 04:37PM

portugaL could spring a surprise i reckon,maybe on peno`s,germany 2-0 winners over italy...

Happyman42 · 25-06-2012 04:37PM

kfallon wrote: »

So the semi finals.....anyone come up with a bet or a prediction for both games?

Portugese win over Spain. 2-2 fulltime, Portugal win on penalties.

Germany win over Italy, sombre affair as the Germans quell a very ordinary Italian side. 2-0

Portugal beat Germany in the final 2-1.

The *ONLY* After Hours thread about the European Championships.

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The ONLY After Hours thread about the European Championships.