What is Bertie Aherns legacy?

Foxhound38 · 24-06-2012 11:08AM #1

I know he isn't exactly the flavour of the week around these parts anymore, but I quite honestly think he gets a worse rap than he deserves. Here was a man who spent his entire life (think he was elected in his early 20's) in public service. He made mistakes economically and we're living through the resultant downturn - nobody is denying that, but I think the celtic tiger wouldn't have happened in the first place without the social partnership model he brokered wih the unions and other society stakeholders being in place.

We had a good reputation abroad when he was in charge, and no other Taoiseach spent so much time with his constituents looking after their needs, which is an essential part of being a TD.

Lets remember too that the downturn happened under Cowan rather than Ahern himself.

I think history will remember him more fondly than the current consensus on him, but what do you think? When his work as Taoiseach is appraised by historians, what do you think his legacy will be?

TheBody · 24-06-2012 11:11AM

:eek:

Hardonraging · 24-06-2012 11:13AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Lets remember too that the downturn happened under Cowan rather than Ahern himself.

Did you take the wrong pill this morning chief ?

Foxhound38 · 24-06-2012 11:13AM

And no, I'm not excusing the payments issue unearthed in Mahon, but lets remember that Albert Reynolds was also implicated and we don't seem to hold the same ire for him as we do for Bertie...

I honestly do feel somewhat sorry for him - exiled from his party, reputation in tatters. Maybe not as a politician, but as a human being it must be tough...

pebbles21 · 24-06-2012 11:14AM

Still got a hangover from the concert Nicky?

yobr · 24-06-2012 11:14AM

Hardonraging wrote: »

Did you take the wrong pill this morning chief ?

+1000. Some much wrong with op's statement, it hard to know where to start...and on a Sunday too..

leeroybrown · 24-06-2012 11:15AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Lets remember too that the downturn happened under Cowan rather than Ahern himself.

This is the man who signed Charlie Haughey's cheques, took payments from "Paddy the Plasterer" and most importantly presided over an era where Fianna Fáil wasted the product of this country's great ear of prosperity. That's his legacy!

DrumSteve · 24-06-2012 11:16AM

Hes a spoofer who got found out.

Ms.M · 24-06-2012 11:17AM

Economic recklessness. Trying to keep everybody happy and get votes at the expense of economic stability. Ignoring advice. Being corrupt.

Wearing canary yellow trousers.

Immaculate Pasta · 24-06-2012 11:19AM

He'll go down as this century's Michael Collins. No question about that. :cool:

Kensington · 24-06-2012 11:20AM

Social partnership was a complete and utter disaster (high inflation, unsustainable social welfare costs, irreversible benchmarking for PS?).

The celtic tiger was built on a makey-uppy bubble.

Elections bought on the back of super-low tax rates but our health, education, road, rail, electricity, broadband and water infrastructure are in complete tatters due to lack of investment and mismanagement.

Bertie Ahern got in, let the good times roll without any regard for the future, lined his pockets and those of his mates and then bailed out when he saw the whole cherade about to topple over in spectacular fashion.

And that is what I hope historians will remember in twenty, thirty, forty years time.

Foxhound38 · 24-06-2012 11:21AM

leeroybrown wrote: »

This is the man who signed Charlie Haughey's cheques, took payments from "Paddy the Plasterer" and most importantly presided over an era where Fianna Fáil wasted the product of this country's great ear of prosperity. That's his legacy!

And yet FF is still the largest party in opposition and making gains in the polls - they must have done something right by at least some people...

ilovesleep · 24-06-2012 11:22AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I know he isn't exactly the flavour of the week around these parts anymore, but I quite honestly think he gets a worse rap than he deserves. Here was a man who spent his entire life (think he was elected in his early 20's) in public service. He made mistakes economically and we're living through the resultant downturn - nobody is denying that, but I think the celtic tiger wouldn't have happened in the first place without the social partnership model he brokered wih the unions and other society stakeholders being in place.

We had a good reputation abroad when he was in charge, and no other Taoiseach spent so much time with his constituents looking after their needs, which is an essential part of being a TD.

Lets remember too that the downturn happened under Cowan rather than Ahern himself.

I think history will remember him more fondly than the current consensus on him, but what do you think? When his work as Taoiseach is appraised by historians, what do you think his legacy will be?

The celtic tiger happened due to the labour and fg government of the 90s devaluing the punt. We then became an attractive country to do business in especially for US multinational companies. We were a cheap, english speaking country on the outskirts of europe. Bertie had nothing to do with the celtic tiger.

He and FF were elected 1997 and built the country encouraging property building, buying and selling.

Patri · 24-06-2012 11:22AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I know he isn't exactly the flavour of the week around these parts anymore, but I quite honestly think he gets a worse rap than he deserves. Here was a man who spent his entire life (think he was elected in his early 20's) in public service. He made mistakes economically and we're living through the resultant downturn - nobody is denying that, but I think the celtic tiger wouldn't have happened in the first place without the social partnership model he brokered wih the unions and other society stakeholders being in place.

We had a good reputation abroad when he was in charge, and no other Taoiseach spent so much time with his constituents looking after their needs, which is an essential part of being a TD.

Lets remember too that the downturn happened under Cowan rather than Ahern himself.

I think history will remember him more fondly than the current consensus on him, but what do you think? When his work as Taoiseach is appraised by historians, what do you think his legacy will be?

Rose tinted glasses op.

Also Bertie left Cowan out to dry. It's not that it happened under Cowan, Bertie (being the little rat he is) got out in time so that he wouldn't have to bite bullet. He's a criminal in a suit.

gerryo777 · 24-06-2012 11:23AM

To be fair to him he was just one of the great 'cute hoors' who slimed his way to be taoiseach, a poor version of haughey if you like.

McCrevey & cowan were the ministers for finance who laid the foundations of this country's ruin.

In saying that, ahern was the 'leader' of the country and as such should have kept his ministers in check.

We will be rewarding him well for his years of 'self' service with a massive pension of €150,000 or thereabouts for the rest of his life.

As he said himself though, his biggest regret was not getting the 'bertie bowl' built and I think that says more about the man and his legacy than anything else.

Profiler · 24-06-2012 11:24AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

When his work as Taoiseach is appraised by historians, what do you think his legacy will be?

I hope those historians get to consider a chapter called.

"Bertie: The Final Chapter: The Mountjoy Decades"

There are so many things I would like to say about him, some would be libelous right now but will come to fruition in time (not soon enough) others would get me a life time ban from Boards. So I won't say them.

I just hope the OP is trolling, as it would break my heart to learn that there are still people so naive in Ireland.

History will reflect very poorly on Bertie, of that I'm sure, in time he will become the standard bearer for what went wrong with Ireland and all the worst kind people we've produced.

ilovesleep · 24-06-2012 11:24AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

And no, I'm not excusing the payments issue unearthed in Mahon, but lets remember that Albert Reynolds was also implicated and we don't seem to hold the same ire for him as we do for Bertie...

I honestly do feel somewhat sorry for him - exiled from his party, reputation in tatters. Maybe not as a politician, but as a human being it must be tough...

Are you Oggy from politics.ie

TeddyTedson · 24-06-2012 11:25AM

A party that resulted in the complete destruction of the building. Good while it lasted though I guess.

gerryo777 · 24-06-2012 11:25AM

ilovesleep wrote: »

The celtic tiger happened due to the labour and fg government of the 90s devaluing the punt. We then became an attractive country to do business in especially for US multinational companies. We were a cheap, english speaking country on the outskirts of europe. Bertie had nothing to do with the celtic tiger.

So we can blame the celtic tiger and the resultant property bubble and burst on FG/Lab????:rolleyes:

Ms.M · 24-06-2012 11:28AM

gerryo777 wrote: »

As he said himself though, his biggest regret was not getting the 'bertie bowl' built and I think that says more about the man and his legacy than anything else.

Jayzus! I remember that interview clip I think.
Did he say that after the bubble burst?

The_Kew_Tour · 24-06-2012 11:28AM

I suppose you believe he has no bank account either do you OP?

Foxhound38 · 24-06-2012 11:29AM

Profiler wrote: »

I hope those historians get to consider a chapter called.

"Bertie: The Final Chapter: The Mountjoy Decades"

There are so many things I would like to say about him, some would be libelous right now but will come to fruition in time (not soon enough) others would get me a life time ban from Boards. So I won't say them.

I just hope the OP is trolling, as it would break my heart to learn that there are still people so naive in Ireland.

History will reflect very poorly on Bertie, of that I'm sure, in time he will become the standard bearer for what went wrong with Ireland and all the worst kind people we've produced.

I'm really not - I actually feel for him as a human being. For a man like that who has spent his life in politics, to be exiled from his own party, hounded by the media, with a reputation in tatters must be tough for anyone, including Bertie.

He was a very popular politician in his day, and FF are rising in the polls - if what he/they did is irreversable, then why would that be?

Fratton Fred · 24-06-2012 11:31AM

Bertie's legacy is the fact that the country is in a worse state now than when he was elected and all entirely due to his personal mis management of the economy.

Hardonraging · 24-06-2012 11:32AM

Actually Bertie and FF's legacy will forever be immortalised by the plethora of small medium and in some cases large housing estates that litter the country side, many of which are empty and half build

gerryo777 · 24-06-2012 11:32AM

Ms.M wrote: »

Jayzus! I remember that interview clip I think.
Did he say that after the bubble burst?

After it had exploded in our faces.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ahern%20regrets%20not%20building%20the%20bertie%20bowl&source=web&cd=10&sqi=2&ved=0CGEQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2Fkfeymhojkfmh%2Frss2%2F&ei=TOzmT5WwCY-EhQf0zfjXCQ&usg=AFQjCNFTahhhVluQCvhHMQPnHecN6yC5ew

ilovesleep · 24-06-2012 11:34AM

gerryo777 wrote: »

So we can blame the celtic tiger and the resultant property bubble and burst on FG/Lab????:rolleyes:

No! Bertie had absolutely nothing to do with the celtic tiger. FF and Bertie took over in 97 and received a healthy economy in which they built a property bubble upon and dragged out the celtic tiger into a property bubble.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-06-2012 11:34AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I'm really not - I actually feel for him as a human being. For a man like that who has spent his life in politics, to be exiled from his own party, hounded by the media, with a reputation in tatters must be tough for anyone, including Bertie.

He was a very popular politician in his day, and FF are rising in the polls - if what he/they did is irreversable, then why would that be?

Wait a second!!

What about people who cant pay mortgages, people who have no jobs, people who's health is in decline, people who have committed suicide because of pressures they could not handle????

Feel sorry for him? Me Bollocks I do.

c_man · 24-06-2012 11:35AM

He'll get some credit for the North but overall his reputation will be down in the mud.

blingrhino · 24-06-2012 11:37AM

Bass !

gerryo777 · 24-06-2012 11:37AM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I'm really not - I actually feel for him as a human being. For a man like that who has spent his life in politics, to be exiled from his own party, hounded by the media, with a reputation in tatters must be tough for anyone, including Bertie.

He was a very popular politician in his day, and FF are rising in the polls - if what he/they did is irreversable, then why would that be?

When is ahern 'hounded' by the media?
He destroyed his own reputation, remember the closet debacle?
I think most people would be happy enough if he just crawled into a hole and died!

gerryo777 · 24-06-2012 11:40AM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Wait a second!!

What about people who cant pay mortgages, people who have no jobs, people who's health is in decline, people who have committed suicide because of pressures they could not handle????

Feel sorry for him? Me Bollocks I do.

Sure didn't he wonder once how people who were 'cribbing and moaning' didn't just go and commit suicide and be done with it.
Hope he's happy now.

What is Bertie Aherns legacy?

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