Unpopular Opinions.

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 07:01PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Never in the history of civilization has maleness been seen by the majority as a weakness or as less worthy than being female.

We have it easy overall, and always have. Just because society is a little more equal overall and men are negatively discriminated against in a small number of situations, doesn't mean that men are treated like second-class citizens overall.

This may or may not be an unpopular opinion, but I believe that many men who complain ad nauseum about discrimination against men are projecting their own insecurities about themselves.

its a popular opinion in certain circles

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 07:04PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I agree, but like I said, it's not intended as a slight against men when it's said. It's basically just a habit at this stage, and one that's dying out. You don't hear it so often on the news.
You can't really believe that people intend to say that the men are worth less when they say it, especially because on the news, it'll often be a man in charge of the wording of what gets said.
It's comparable to saying "God bless you" when someone sneezes: it's a habit with no real meaning behind it.

The part about men being discriminated against wasn't a direct response to you: just a general musing based on what a lot of posters say on threads like this, which spun off from your post and the reply to it.

men are potrayed as less sympathetic charechters by the media which tends to me more female orientated generally speaking

The King of Moo · 22-06-2012 07:12PM

bee_keeper wrote: »

men are potrayed as less sympathetic charechters by the media which tends to me more female orientated generally speaking

That's not true of the entire media.

There are some isolated cases of the above happening, mostly in TV ads. But most people hate such ads and complain about them (have a look at the "Adverts you Despise" thread in the Television forum). They have no cultural influence, and I can't think of any practical way in which they've made life more difficult for men.

I also find that the most commonly-cited examples of such discrimination (Boots ads and Loose Women) make both sexes look bad. Vain, capricious, sexist nincompoops in the Boots ads, and shrill, sexist gossips on Loose Women. Not great female role models.

Even if such portrayals of men were more widespread, I think it's the kind of discrimination we can take. I'd much prefer if all ads and TV programmes featured silly male characters that everyone knows aren't realistic, than being one of the huge number of women in South Asia who suffer from acid attacks.

Let's get some perspective: men have it pretty good, overall.
When men can't leave their houses without a female relative or their wife, who they have to walk behind, then we might have an actual problem.

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 07:18PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

That's not true of the entire media.

There are some isolated cases of the above happening, mostly in TV ads. But most people hate such ads and complain about them (have a look at the "Adverts you Despise" thread in the Television forum). They have no cultural influence, and I can't think of any practical way in which they've made life more difficult for men.

I also find that the most commonly-cited examples of such discrimination (Boots ads and Loose Women) make both sexes look bad. Vain, capricious, sexist nincompoops in the Boots ads, and shrill, sexist gossips on Loose Women. Not great female role models.

Even if such portrayals of men were more widespread, I think it's the kind of discrimination we can take. I'd much prefer if all ads and TV programmes featured silly male characters that everyone knows aren't realistic, than being one of the huge number of women in South Asia who suffer from acid attacks.

Let's get some perspective: men have it pretty good, overall.
When men can't leave their houses without a female relative or their wife, who they have to walk behind, then we might have an actual problem.

apples and oranges

The King of Moo · 22-06-2012 07:19PM

bee_keeper wrote: »

apples and oranges

Agreed: real problems affecting millions of people worldwide, and trivialities.

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 07:34PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Agreed: real problems affecting millions of people worldwide, and trivialities.

No one thinks that this is the worst thing anyone has to live with in their lives. Obviously there are more pressing matters in the world. The thread is entitled "unpopular opinions" though, not "Worst problems in the world"

22-06-2012 07:38PM

flutterflye wrote: »

None taken.
Although, I also have it.
So I guess I'm a 27 year old brat.
You could be on to something here alright!

What are you like without meds? Ive only ever met one person who actually it and it was very noticable.

The King of Moo · 22-06-2012 07:39PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

No one thinks that this is the worst thing anyone has to live with in their lives. Obviously there are more pressing matters in the world. The thread is entitled "unpopular opinions" though, not "Worst problems in the world"

I don't mind people complaining about their "first world problems." You don't have to endure extreme suffering in order to complain.

But I think that the anti-men line gets trotted out to a disproportionate extent.
And I don't even think it's a problem at all, let alone a minor problem. I just think it's an excuse for people to whinge.

FishBowel · 22-06-2012 07:45PM

Children of Chernobyl is a scam charity. Can't think of a better one - give us money to help radioactive disabled kids? Wasn't there a recent report that said the accident wasn't as bad as expected? Saw Adi Roche in Dublin last year wearing a fur coat. Says it all.

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 07:53PM

Unpopular opinion: Soldiers deserve no special treatment or praise for "defending the country." They chose to go to war and anything that happens them there is their fault.

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 08:17PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: Soldiers deserve no special treatment or praise for "defending the country." They chose to go to war and anything that happens them there is their fault.

which war ?

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 08:20PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I don't mind people complaining about their "first world problems." You don't have to endure extreme suffering in order to complain.

But I think that the anti-men line gets trotted out to a disproportionate extent.
And I don't even think it's a problem at all, let alone a minor problem. I just think it's an excuse for people to whinge.

complaining is only appreciated if its the right type of person who is doing the complaining

paddyandy · 22-06-2012 08:20PM

Ireland has so badly lost her way this last few decades that she no longer knows how lost she is but thinks she's grand as long as she can pay her bills .

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 08:32PM

bee_keeper wrote: »

which war ?

I was mostly talking about Americans who think it's great to go off and fight the "war on terrorism." They celebrate the people who go off to the army and call them brave when they get both legs blown off. I prefer to call them foolish. They had a choice and decided to fight in a fake war. They chose that hazardous job and they knew that losing limbs could happen.

Unless you were forced to join the army by your government by conscription then i have very little sympathy for you.

22-06-2012 08:44PM

We are past the summer solistice now. Time for certain shops to start stocking the selection boxes and putting out the sale price decorations and cards. Xmas is coming

22-06-2012 08:46PM

paddyandy wrote: »

Ireland has so badly lost her way this last few decades that she no longer knows how lost she is but thinks she's grand as long as she can pay her bills .

You surely mean as long as the EU will continue lending her money to pay her bills?

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 08:47PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I was mostly talking about Americans who think it's great to go off and fight the "war on terrorism." They celebrate the people who go off to the army and call them brave when they get both legs blown off. I prefer to call them foolish. They had a choice and decided to fight in a fake war. They chose that hazardous job and they knew that losing limbs could happen.

Unless you were forced to join the army by your government by conscription then i have very little sympathy for you.

while every war is different , in the vast majority of cases , i view soliders as admirable brave people

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 08:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You surely mean as long as the EU will continue lending her money to pay her bills?

the eu wouldnt lend to ireland if it wasnt in their interest

pete_mcs · 22-06-2012 08:56PM

Us Irish people have lost the art of just bloody working hard. Years past we would have rolled up our sleeves and just put in hard graft to get us out of this damned economic mess we have got ourselves into, but NO we have to rely on the Germans to bail us out. We have pampered our Celtic Tiger Cubs into being pompus spoiled brats that are unable and unwilling to work hard!

pete_mcs · 22-06-2012 09:01PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: Soldiers deserve no special treatment or praise for "defending the country." They chose to go to war and anything that happens them there is their fault.

Can you you explain this one to the billions of refuges of wars, such as the Jewish race during World War 2, that were rescued and protected by soldiers. Without soldiers willing to risk their own lifes for no personal gains im fairly sure this world would be a far worse place to live for a lot of people.:mad:

whendovescry · 22-06-2012 09:07PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: Soldiers deserve no special treatment or praise for "defending the country." They chose to go to war and anything that happens them there is their fault.

I find it ironic that those very people fought for your freedom and civil liberties, and ultimately enabled you lo live in a society where you can make such fatuous remarks

Motorist · 22-06-2012 09:07PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I was mostly talking about Americans who think it's great to go off and fight the "war on terrorism." They celebrate the people who go off to the army and call them brave when they get both legs blown off. I prefer to call them foolish. They had a choice and decided to fight in a fake war. They chose that hazardous job and they knew that losing limbs could happen.

Unless you were forced to join the army by your government by conscription then i have very little sympathy for you.

They dont sign up to join a war. To sign up to the armed services ready to be deployed at the behest of the President/Congress. I dont blame them for phoney wars they end up in. It's not their fault if the bureaucrats get it wrong from time to time. What about Afghanistan which was sanctioned by the UN? Do you think soldiers who get injured there deserve respect for their sacrifice, or is that a fake war too.

Do you think the millions of soldiers who died in both World Wars were foolish also?

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 09:16PM

pete_mcs wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: Soldiers deserve no special treatment or praise for "defending the country." They chose to go to war and anything that happens them there is their fault.

Can you you explain this one to the billions of refuges of wars, such as the Jewish race during World War 2, that were rescued and protected by soldiers. Without soldiers willing to risk their own lifes for no personal gains im fairly sure this world would be a far worse place to live for a lot of people.:mad:

Im talking about those in the Iraq war. British and American. Fighting a stupid war believing the things their government is telling them and blindly following their instructions. I never mentioned WWII. That was a JUST war from the allies point of view which I have no problem with.

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 09:17PM

whendovescry wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: Soldiers deserve no special treatment or praise for "defending the country." They chose to go to war and anything that happens them there is their fault.

I find it ironic that those very people fought for your freedom and civil liberties, and ultimately enabled you lo live in a society where you can make such fatuous remarks

American or British soldiers never fought for for my freedom or civil liberties.

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 09:20PM

bee_keeper wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I was mostly talking about Americans who think it's great to go off and fight the "war on terrorism." They celebrate the people who go off to the army and call them brave when they get both legs blown off. I prefer to call them foolish. They had a choice and decided to fight in a fake war. They chose that hazardous job and they knew that losing limbs could happen.

Unless you were forced to join the army by your government by conscription then i have very little sympathy for you.

while every war is different , in the vast majority of cases , i view soliders as admirable brave people

Well I suppose they could be considered brave because I know there would be no Chance of me doing what they do but I just dont think they should get sympathy when they get blown up because they knew that was one of the risks of war.

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 09:22PM

Motorist wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I was mostly talking about Americans who think it's great to go off and fight the "war on terrorism." They celebrate the people who go off to the army and call them brave when they get both legs blown off. I prefer to call them foolish. They had a choice and decided to fight in a fake war. They chose that hazardous job and they knew that losing limbs could happen.

Unless you were forced to join the army by your government by conscription then i have very little sympathy for you.

They dont sign up to join a war. To sign up to the armed services ready to be deployed at the behest of the President/Congress.

Same diff imo.

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 10:01PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

American or British soldiers never fought for for my freedom or civil liberties.

actually they did , had WW2 gone the other way , ireland would be a very different place today

NegativeCreep · 22-06-2012 10:06PM

bee_keeper wrote: »

actually they did , had WW2 gone the other way , ireland would be a very different place today

I doubt they invaded Germany with the freedom of Ireland in mind.
I don't really want an argument about individual wars. I was talking about modern soldiers in Iraq and the middle east anyway. As i said in a previous post, I have no issue with the soldiers with the allies in WWII.

whendovescry · 22-06-2012 10:09PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

American or British soldiers never fought for for my freedom or civil liberties.

Very easy to say now mate, but Ireland were at the mercy of world powers such as Britain and America up until very recently, and whether or not they fought for your civil liberties directly, their actions and the outcome of ww2 affect the life you lead today.

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 10:09PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I doubt they invaded Germany with the freedom of Ireland in mind.
I don't really want an argument about individual wars. I was talking about modern soldiers in Iraq and the middle east anyway. As i said in a previous post, I have no issue with the soldiers with the allies in WWII.

the soldiers dont pick the fights , they just fight them , if you oppose war , set your sights on the politicans

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