Martin McGuinness to meet Britain's queen

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 02:59PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I don't see why its considered a big deal (boosted by Sinn Fein media chatter) for McGuinness to meet and greet the British Queen. If anything, its more remarkable that the Queen is agreeing to meet and greet him. Mary Lou McDonald was on RTE's Morning Ireland this morning making out that McGuinness' and Sinn Fein's decision was a tremendous act of bridge-building and that they were doing this for everyone on the island of Ireland. Self-serving waffle.

They'd want to grow up. McGuinness - you're an elected representative - act like one - shake the lady's hand and don't be making yourself out to be some kind of Gandhi-like innocent "getting over" all the horrible things done to you by the Queen and her Governement.

When the handshake does happen there'll be only one murderous thug in the room (depending on which helpers Martin has with him).

mary lou was correct , it is a huge deal for sinn fein and one which is likely to cause mixed feelings amongst their base , sinn fein have travelled a very long way and this is a further giant leap , its been a while since unionists made any kind of large gesture and they would need to reciprocate this very great one if it does go ahead

neil_hosey · 22-06-2012 03:03PM

Sinn Fein cant win, with the attitudes of alot of irish people.

OF course he was a commander in the RA, who killed many british soldiers and innocents and her army kill many IRA volunteers and many civilians.

This is a huge step by mcGuinness and Sinn Féin, fair play to them, and hopefully the people of NI.

The big reply by boardsies opposed to Sinn Féin and republicanism is "ah wudja move on.."

So why dont you take your own advice and MOVE THE FÚCK ON!

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 03:06PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I don't get your first point. Yes - the Queen meets/has met a rich tapestry of colourful characters down the years. McGuinness is no exception. She meets who the British Government tells her to meet.

I never said it was gimmickry for MMG to meet her. I said it was an act of common sense and decency - one that he and his party shouldn't be looking for credit for.

I'm happy about the meeting. But I'm not going to applaud either side for doing the right thing.

mcguinness is a choir boy compared to the kind of bloody despots the queen shakes hands with on a semi regular basis , ive nothing against queen liz , in fact i admire the stoic unfussed way which she goes about her business but lets not cod ourselves , she is old school british , violence played a central part in maintaining british dominance , the queen is no harmless little old lady

I Heart Internet · 22-06-2012 03:07PM

bee_keeper wrote: »

mary lou was correct , it is a huge deal for sinn fein and one which is likely to cause mixed feelings amongst their base , sinn fein have travelled a very long way and this is a further giant leap , its been a while since unionists made any kind of large gesture and they would need to reciprocate this very great one if it does go ahead

Well lets see what could unionists offer to match such genorosity of spirt from Sinn Fein - after all we are talking about a person actually shaking hands with another person and standing all civil in a room like. There may even be some drinks and nibbles involved here as well - I guess that's for the diplomats to sort out.

Unionists could:
- send their leaders to shake hands with the President of our republic....................oh right, happened years ago, I see.
- agree to sit in government with murderers from both sides (republicans and loyalists)......................oh, that was years ago too?
- agree to self-determination for the people in the region....................oh, that happened too?
- get the British Army to close bases and pull troops off the streets......done too huh??
- ensure the RUC is completely reformed............oh, yeah that happened years ago too (not before time).

So I'm scratching my head wondering what the Unionist community or its politicians could do that would top Martin's benevolance. Any ideas?

Biggins · 22-06-2012 03:14PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Well lets see what could unionists offer to match such genorosity of spirt from Sinn Fein - after all we are talking about a person actually shaking hands with another person and standing all civil in a room like. There may even be some drinks and nibbles involved here as well - I guess that's for the diplomats to sort out.

Unionists could:
- send their leaders to shake hands with the President of our republic....................oh right, happened years ago, I see.
- agree to sit in government with murderers from both sides (republicans and loyalists)......................oh, that was years ago too?
- agree to self-determination for the people in the region....................oh, that happened too?
- get the British Army to close bases and pull troops off the streets......done too huh??
- ensure the RUC is completely reformed............oh, yeah that happened years ago too (not before time).

So I'm scratching my head wondering what the Unionist community or its politicians could do that would top Martin's benevolance. Any ideas?

Its not a major thing to us but to some of the North it might be. Their (by some more stubborn people within their own side) willing to back down on their aggressive stance over they not wishing schools to be integrated as regards Protestants and Catholics.
A clear statement supporting the Northern Ireland government in their wish to create more integration.

fasttalkerchat · 22-06-2012 03:20PM

Biggins wrote: »

Its not a major thing to us but to some of the North it might be. Their (by some more stubborn people within their own side) willing to back down on their aggressive stance over they not wishing schools to be integrated as regards Protestants and Catholics.
A clear statement supporting the Northern Ireland government in their wish to create more integration.

As regards integration in schools, If the government can deliver the same results from state schools as the Catholic schools then more parents would choose state schools. As it stands Catholics far out perform their Protestant counterparts so there is little appetite for messing with the Catholic school system.

bee_keeper · 22-06-2012 03:21PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Well lets see what could unionists offer to match such genorosity of spirt from Sinn Fein - after all we are talking about a person actually shaking hands with another person and standing all civil in a room like. There may even be some drinks and nibbles involved here as well - I guess that's for the diplomats to sort out.

Unionists could:
- send their leaders to shake hands with the President of our republic....................oh right, happened years ago, I see.
- agree to sit in government with murderers from both sides (republicans and loyalists)......................oh, that was years ago too?
- agree to self-determination for the people in the region....................oh, that happened too?
- get the British Army to close bases and pull troops off the streets......done too huh??
- ensure the RUC is completely reformed............oh, yeah that happened years ago too (not before time).

So I'm scratching my head wondering what the Unionist community or its politicians could do that would top Martin's benevolance. Any ideas?

bar meeting the president of ireland , all of the above needed to happen and besides , republicans meeting the british monarch who heads the nations armed forces is a much bigger deal than peter robinson meeting the president , republicans have made much bigger sacrafices to core beliefs than unionists this past fifteen years

cournioni · 22-06-2012 03:22PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

He won't refuse - the Sinn Fein goodwill ambassadors are working overtime. McGuinness is to be canonised for this heroic act of....ehm.....common sense and decency.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, shame on him for not wanting to shake the hand of a person that is the figurehead and patron for the British Army, an army that caused him to join the IRA by murdering innocent people on Bloody Sunday in Derry and had murdered hundreds more people over the course of their occupation of Northern Ireland since 1970. Whether that is a true figure for civilians murdered or not I am not sure, but the majority of Republicans believe that, so it is entirely understandable that he would/did not want to shake her hand.

I'm no republican, but even I can see that she represents a lot more to Republicans and Nationalists than a nice old lady that drinks tea and be hauled about in a gold carriage by horses.

Biggins · 22-06-2012 03:23PM

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

As regards integration in schools, If the government can deliver the same results from state schools as the Catholic schools then more parents would choose state schools. As it stands Catholics far out perform their Protestant counterparts so there is little appetite for messing with the Catholic school system.

Internally some don't want to mess around with the method of education system itself if it works.
Externally though, there is still a fierce hatred/resentment amid the die-hards to to not wish to see further integration of people from both sides of communities.

I Heart Internet · 22-06-2012 03:24PM

bee_keeper wrote: »

bar meeting the president of ireland , all of the above needed to happen and besides , republicans meeting the british monarch who heads the nations armed forces is a much bigger deal than peter robinson meeting the president , republicans have made much bigger sacrafices to core beliefs than unionists this past fifteen years

If that's true maybe that's because their core beliefs were wrong and/or disposable?

cournioni · 22-06-2012 03:25PM

neil_hosey wrote: »

Sinn Fein cant win, with the attitudes of alot of irish people.

OF course he was a commander in the RA, who killed many british soldiers and innocents and her army kill many IRA volunteers and many civilians.

This is a huge step by mcGuinness and Sinn Féin, fair play to them, and hopefully the people of NI.

The big reply by boardsies opposed to Sinn Féin and republicanism is "ah wudja move on.."

So why dont you take your own advice and MOVE THE FÚCK ON!

Spot on.

Biggins · 22-06-2012 03:26PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

If that's true maybe that's because their core beliefs were wrong and/or disposable?

...Or just in their opinion, appropriate for the times they considered they were living in?

I Heart Internet · 22-06-2012 03:28PM

cournioni wrote: »

:rolleyes:
..........the British Army...........over the course of their occupation of Northern Ireland since 1970.......

The British Army didn't occupy Northern Ireland. It is simplistic and downright wrong to claim they did. As we all know, they were welcomed in many republican areas very early on as peacekeepers.

fasttalkerchat · 22-06-2012 03:28PM

Biggins wrote: »

Internally some don't want to mess around with the method of education system itself if it works.
Externally though, there is still a fierce hatred/resentment amid the die-hards to to not wish to see further integration of people from both sides of communities.

State schools aren't actually protestant, they do have some Catholics so they are already integrated to some extent. There are some who don't want their kids associating with Catholics but in my opinion its not the biggest issue around education.

Fenian Army · 22-06-2012 03:29PM

Its official lads

I Heart Internet · 22-06-2012 03:30PM

Biggins wrote: »

...Or just in their opinion, appropriate for the times they considered they were living in?

If that's the case then abandoning these beliefs in changed times wasn't a sacrafice at all....just a formality.

cournioni · 22-06-2012 03:30PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The British Army didn't occupy Northern Ireland. It is simplistic and downright wrong to claim they did. As we all know, they were welcomed in many republican areas very early on as peacekeepers.

Indeed, and then Bloody Sunday happened. :rolleyes:

I Heart Internet · 22-06-2012 03:33PM

cournioni wrote: »

Indeed, and then Bloody Sunday happened. :rolleyes:

Indeed. But my point still stands. The British Army was not a force of occupation.......just in the minds of republican fantasists who found a convenient enemy.

Biggins · 22-06-2012 03:34PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

If that's the case then abandoning these beliefs in changed times wasn't a sacrafice at all....just a formality.

If all things were a formality - life would be so much easier.

In their opinion, their actions/stances appropriate for the times they considered they were living in - I'm assuming.

They have (thankfully) moved on and/or are still willing to move on.
That might be just a 'formality' to some, to me its good natural progression from an org' that although holds still the same ideals of an eventually united island, they are willing to now take yet another step in meeting of hearts and minds, they are willing to shake hands.
The process of doing that on the day will be an official formality - the steps up to that moment are/or were never just that!

Sunnyisland · 22-06-2012 03:37PM

Its another positive step forward,and should be welcomed by all the people.

mike65 · 22-06-2012 03:39PM

Just confirmed

Biggins · 22-06-2012 03:39PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Indeed. But my point still stands. The British Army was not a force of occupation.......just in the minds of republican fantasists who found a convenient enemy.

Convenient enemy?

*sigh*

chin_grin · 22-06-2012 03:40PM

annascott wrote: »

Put chocolate milk from coco pops into coffee. You will have Mocha!

Mind. F*ckin'. Blown!

I Heart Internet · 22-06-2012 03:47PM

Biggins wrote: »

Convenient enemy?

*sigh*

Yep, before the army arrived they only had neighbours and fellow-countrymen to kill and maim. With the arrival of the British Army they were catapulted into the premier league of terrorist organisations. They were real soldiers and even shot back. Still.....shooting soldiers and even policemen wasn't always enough. Sometimes when the IRA and Sinn Fein wanted to really, really fight for Irish Freedom nothing would do but children, shoppers and best of all - whoever the **** happened to be next to the car bomb at the moment it went off. That's was true freedom fighting right there.

But seriously, nominally fighting the might of the British Army was very convenient for their credibility in the eyes of many.

cournioni · 22-06-2012 03:48PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Indeed. But my point still stands. The British Army was not a force of occupation.......just in the minds of republican fantasists who found a convenient enemy.

Fair enough, but right or wrong, that is how Republican's viewed it after Bloody Sunday and hundreds of killings. It is completely understandable why he nor any other Republican would want to shake her hand.

mattjack · 22-06-2012 03:52PM

http://www.google.ie/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=800&bih=485&authuser=0&tbm=isch&tbnid=CnMhi7gy1V5HlM:&imgrefurl=http://politico.ie/component/tag/martin_mcguinness.html&docid=cSnuUb1joUiCUM&imgurl=http://politico.ie/images/politico/politics/politicians/martin-mcguinness.jpg&w=640&h=360&ei=eYbkT6aZOYaZhQfu1u3MCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=459&vpy=189&dur=471&hovh=168&hovw=300&tx=196&ty=99&sig=101514873492788278823&page=1&tbnh=118&tbnw=158&start=0&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0,i:118http://www.google.ie/imgres?num=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&authuser=0&biw=800&bih=485&tbm=isch&tbnid=mPr7030Jv3KgUM:&imgrefurl=http://islandgirl4ever2.blogspot.com/2011/09/google-celebrates-freddie-mercurys-65th.html&docid=82Oodw9DNpBjxM&imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wwP2pNgOqsk/TmSvRWMxGvI/AAAAAAAAdt0/bO7B_Vtcplo/s400/freddie.jpg&w=321&h=400&ei=k4bkT46hD5GzhAebvZnBCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=391&vpy=50&dur=339&hovh=251&hovw=201&tx=100&ty=142&sig=101514873492788278823&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=121&tbnw=94&start=0&ndsp=11&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:142

Will this queen do ?

Biggins · 22-06-2012 03:53PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yep, before the army arrived they only had neighbours and fellow-countrymen to kill and maim. With the arrival of the British Army they were catapulted into the premier league of terrorist organisations. They were real soldiers and even shot back. Still.....shooting soldiers and even policemen wasn't always enough. Sometimes when the IRA and Sinn Fein wanted to really, really fight for Irish Freedom nothing would do but children, shoppers and best of all - whoever the **** happened to be next to the car bomb at the moment it went off. That's was true freedom fighting right there.

But seriously, nominally fighting the might of the British Army was very convenient for their credibility in the eyes of many.

For clarity, when the soldiers first arrived, they were (folk find this hard to believe but its true) welcomed by both sides.
It wasn't uncommon for soldiers to be offered cups of tea and talked to in the streets by residents at their front doors.

Now thereafter what started then to create the long mess that ensued, is debatable.

The British army was not just a convenient enemy, they sadly eventually became one that was doing its masters bidding - which in turn led to "The Troubles".
...And that wasn't convenient for anyone either - on any side!

Fenian Army · 22-06-2012 03:55PM

Can we talk about today rather than how the troubles stated something we've gone over a million times?

R P McMurphy · 22-06-2012 03:56PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Indeed. But my point still stands. The British Army was not a force of occupation.......just in the minds of republican fantasists who found a convenient enemy.

It sure made a good effort at resembling one around South Armagh and South Down back in the day

I Heart Internet · 22-06-2012 03:58PM

Fenian Army wrote: »

Can we talk about today rather than how the troubles stated something we've gone over a million times?

Fine. Martin McGuinness is to meet the Queen.

That's genuinely welcome news. Nice and civil.

Martin McGuinness is still a murderous thug though....but at least he's better than Adams who tells more lies about it.

Martin McGuinness to meet Britain's queen

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