Medical intern offers?

foreverandever · 20-06-2012 5:27pm

Did everyone get the right offers? I've heard some rumblings already...

actin · 20-06-2012 6:23pm

foreverandever wrote: »

Did everyone get the right offers? I've heard some rumblings already...

Rumblings as in people complaining or talk of another error?

Everyone I've heard of either retained their previous offer or received an offer further up their list.

robjones1981 · 20-06-2012 6:43pm

foreverandever wrote: »

Did everyone get the right offers? I've heard some rumblings already...

What you heard exactly?

foreverandever · 20-06-2012 9:19pm

Heard someone who was high up on their list(not sure of the number but within top 10) has now got a job that wasn't even on their 25 list.

TRG2012 · 27-06-2012 1:56am

Any one have any info on the situation where someone declines an offer? Specifically on whether it gets offered to the next highest ranked person (who will presumably already have accepted the first offer they got of a lower preference) or just offered to the next person on the reserve list?

kopci · 27-06-2012 5:57am

TRG2012 wrote: »

Any one have any info on the situation where someone declines an offer? Specifically on whether it gets offered to the next highest ranked person (who will presumably already have accepted the first offer they got of a lower preference) or just offered to the next person on the reserve list?

It definitely gets offered to the next person on the reserve list. Even though this way may seem a bit unfair, there's no way the other method could be feasible.

Rick Dagless · 27-06-2012 2:54pm

Hey guys, have the 2nd round Intern offers come out yet? I'm hoping some of my non EU friends will be able to get jobs.

The HSE should have told everyone at the start of the year that there were not gonna be enough places so people could make alternative applications and arrangements in time. I know a few people now who are stuck with huge loans to pay back and no job.

Irish medical schools have more Graduate and International students studying over here than ever. They bring huge funding to the country. The HSE has had 4 years notice to make some more intern spots available, especially with the NCHD shortage. It's almost criminal that some of the best graduates in this country won't be able to complete their training here.

The intern shortage may only affect non EU this year but med student numbers are always growing and EU nad Irish students will be next affected in the coming years. I can see this having serious complications on GEM programmes, international students and future funding...

ThatDrGuy · 27-06-2012 4:50pm

Rick Dagless wrote: »

Hey guys, have the 2nd round Intern offers come out yet? I'm hoping some of my non EU friends will be able to get jobs.

The HSE should have told everyone at the start of the year that there were not gonna be enough places so people could make alternative applications and arrangements in time. I know a few people now who are stuck with huge loans to pay back and no job.

Irish medical schools have more Graduate and International students studying over here than ever. They bring huge funding to the country. The HSE has had 4 years notice to make some more intern spots available, especially with the NCHD shortage. It's almost criminal that some of the best graduates in this country won't be able to complete their training here.

The intern shortage may only affect non EU this year but med student numbers are always growing and EU nad Irish students will be next affected in the coming years. I can see this having serious complications on GEM programmes, international students and future funding...

I hate to break it to you but the HSE does not give a fuçk. About anything but especially not about doctors. As long as there are enough dept-ridden peons to staff Our Lady of Ballygobackways they dont care.

dissed doc · 27-06-2012 10:52pm

ThatDrGuy wrote: »

I hate to break it to you but the HSE does not give a fuçk. About anything but especially not about doctors. As long as there are enough dept-ridden peons to staff Our Lady of Ballygobackways they dont care.

Qft. The HSE like the NHS is a conduit to supply contracts to the attached and related private sector companies for cleaning, transport, construction, etc., . The last priority is provision of healthcare, which is a byproduct of the service. This is why there is never forward planning with hospitals, clinics or staff: none of these are a priority.

No-one should tear their hair out asking why this or why that; the HSE don't plan for healthcare related issues simply because they don't plan for healthcare related issues: it's not part of the mission statement.

Once you accept what it is, the HSE's actions with regard to training supports, staffing, health outcomes, etc., makes perfect sense. The HSE has nothing to do with provision of healthcare, is the only logical conclusion.

Traumadoc · 28-06-2012 7:57am

the current job shortage has been flagged for a number of years, they have doubled the number of graduates. There are far more mature graduates .
This creates an oversupply , and pushes down wage demands.
the same thing happened when the increased physiotherapy placeswere created.

it will only get worse into the future, and you will be lucky to have a job in "our ladys of ballygobackwards."

TC80 · 28-06-2012 11:42pm

It's no great mystery what's going on. Ramp up the number of graduates, make them older and in much greater debt than ever before based on unrealistic salary expectations. Keep the number of jobs down, drive down terms and conditions. Unis couldn't care less: have more money and students. Everyone's a winner.

This was the inevitable consequence of the expansion of GEM, people should have seen it coming.

opinion guy · 28-06-2012 11:48pm

TC80 wrote: »

It's no great mystery what's going on. Ramp up the number of graduates, make them older and in much greater debt than ever before based on unrealistic salary expectations. Keep the number of jobs down, drive down terms and conditions. Unis couldn't care less: have more money and students. Everyone's a winner.

This was the inevitable consequence of the expansion of GEM, people should have seen it coming.

You are overthinking it.

The grad entry students are paying up to €50,000 a year in fees. Simple as.
Don't credit them with thought and planning beyond that.

dissed doc · 29-06-2012 12:50pm

opinion guy wrote: »

You are overthinking it.

The grad entry students are paying up to €50,000 a year in fees. Simple as.
Don't credit them with thought and planning beyond that.

Yeah I'd agee with you. I don't see how they can ever pay it back earning €5.5k/month net on the standard Type A consultant contract (before any further salary cuts).

On the new 100k gross contract (for new CCST holders, Conusltant Level 1 or something), you are never going to pay off 100-150k of college debt when you are limited to earning 4k a month.

Lol at the maths!

ShadyLane · 29-06-2012 3:00pm

dissed doc wrote: »

Yeah I'd agee with you. I don't see how they can ever pay it back earning €5.5k/month net on the standard Type A consultant contract (before any further salary cuts).

On the new 100k gross contract (for new CCST holders, Conusltant Level 1 or something), you are never going to pay off 100-150k of college debt when you are limited to earning 4k a month.

Lol at the maths!

50k per year only applies to non-Irish/EU students. Irish students only pay 10-15k per year.

Most North Americans will return to their home countries, where they'll more than likely earn well over 100k per year. In America, there's loan forgiveness after 10 years if you work in the public sector. So all you have to do is make payments for 10 years (payments are generally income based) and the rest of the debt is forgiven.

Don't assume that graduate entry students didn't think of all this before starting the course!

foreverandever · 29-06-2012 4:15pm

ShadyLane wrote: »

50k per year only applies to non-Irish/EU students. Irish students only pay 10-15k per year.

Most North Americans will return to their home countries, where they'll more than likely earn well over 100k per year. In America, there's loan forgiveness after 10 years if you work in the public sector. So all you have to do is make payments for 10 years (payments are generally income based) and the rest of the debt is forgiven.

Don't assume that graduate entry students didn't think of all this before starting the course!

I presume they were talking about irish graduates who will work in ireland, america has a well established student loan programme

opinion guy · 29-06-2012 4:18pm

I was talking about their incentives for creating more graduates.

Whether they are EU students paying 14k with an extra 10k from the government, or American students (of whom there are alot) paying 50k, it is plain to see that their motivation for creating more graduates was the money that could be made from medical education.

It should not be misconstrued as an attempt to fix nchd shortages - which remain - as this is a separate and unrelated issue. Most of the new graduates will leave just like the old graduates as the reasons they are leaving continue to fail to be addressed

Traumadoc · 01-07-2012 4:22pm

many grad entry will have loans ( 15-20 k in fees 20 k in living expenses ) most would have loans of 100k.

Assuming a 10 year pay back at 1 k per month that would leave you with 250 per week to live off. ( better off on the dole?)

Anthony16 · 01-07-2012 5:14pm

Traumadoc wrote: »

many grad entry will have loans ( 15-20 k in fees 20 k in living expenses ) most would have loans of 100k.

Assuming a 10 year pay back at 1 k per month that would leave you with 250 per week to live off. ( better off on the dole?)

I see what u are saying but i have a cousin who has gone the GEM route and honestly,she would rather go to the grave 200k in debt than live comfortably in a job she isnt satisfied with.
It seems some people have that unquenchable vocation while others want a career.

j.mcdrmd · 03-07-2012 12:35am

Anthony16 wrote: »

I see what u are saying but i have a cousin who has gone the GEM route and honestly,she would rather go to the grave 200k in debt than live comfortably in a job she isnt satisfied with.
It seems some people have that unquenchable vocation while others want a career.

Going to the grave owing 200k is a result.

It means that you have robbed 200k out of the system that you can't/won't repay, because you are dead.

Most people are more responsible than that.

SleepDoc · 03-07-2012 1:30am

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

Going to the grave owing 200k is a result.

It means that you have robbed 200k out of the system that you can't/won't repay, because you are dead.

Most people are more responsible than that.

Yes indeed.

Dying is irresponsible.

Free-loading cadavers.

Traumadoc · 03-07-2012 9:45pm

Anthony16 wrote: »

I see what u are saying but i have a cousin who has gone the GEM route and honestly,she would rather go to the grave 200k in debt than live comfortably in a job she isnt satisfied with.
It seems some people have that unquenchable vocation while others want a career.

No fear she will be allowed to go to the grave owing money, the Banks will go after the guarantors.

04-07-2012 9:43am

Traumadoc wrote: »

No fear she will be allowed to go to the grave owing money, the Banks will go after the guarantors.

Most GEMS don't have a guarantor! They do, however, have life insurance to cover such an unfortunate incident.

04-07-2012 9:48am

Traumadoc wrote: »

many grad entry will have loans ( 15-20 k in fees 20 k in living expenses ) most would have loans of 100k.

Assuming a 10 year pay back at 1 k per month that would leave you with 250 per week to live off. ( better off on the dole?)

Your figures are correct for the first year of internship only.

Traumadoc · 05-07-2012 5:16am

51533823 wrote: »

Your figures are correct for the first year of internship only.

Possibly, but the increases in pay for SHOs is not huge. I still think graduates, many of whom will be trying to settle down, buy a home etc, will be struggling for many years.

05-07-2012 9:26am

Traumadoc wrote: »

Possibly, but the increases in pay for SHOs is not huge. I still think graduates, many of whom will be trying to settle down, buy a home etc, will be struggling for many years.

True, a mortgage will probably be out of the question for most alright. The only hope for many of the current students is that their loan should be unsecured. This (somewhat) puts them in the driving seat when dealing with their bank on graduation (as the majority of mid 20's do not have assets worth talking about) and hopefully will be in a position to negotiate their repayments.

I think the banks are also worried about certain UK insolvency laws. These ordinarily do not cover student debt, but the GEMS loan package is an ordinary standard personal loan which is within the remit of things like IVA's. This is why all new loans for the incoming students require a guarantor, which is crazy in my opinion. You'd have to think very long and hard before bringing your parents into your €100k debt at a stage when they are likely to be considering retirement.

Zagato · 05-07-2012 11:17am

Traumadoc wrote: »

many of whom will be trying to settle down, buy a home etc,

Are you familiar with the life of an NCHD, why would they buy a home, when they have little idea where their job is going to be next year.

Sure lots of them bought houses in '00 - '07 when they were told that they needed to get on the property ladder, and the house would only go up in value, so they could sell if needs be in 3yrs time or so. Not so many of them buying in the last 2yrs.

RobFowl · 05-07-2012 11:38am

Buying a home as an NCHD is a very bad idea. You will be moving around repeatedly and probably even working abroad for long stretches. Literally you will not know where you are working more than a year in advance at best for the first 4-7 years at best.

Anthony16 · 05-07-2012 3:42pm

Traumadoc wrote: »

No fear she will be allowed to go to the grave owing money, the Banks will go after the guarantors.

She doesnt owe that money.
She started at 32 and had saved about 50k beforehand.
So probably owes about 50 now.
Not bad by any means.
no plans to settle down afaik.
I agree though,for those who want a family/mortgage and stay in ireland,it seems a ridiculous decision to go for GEM

Zagato · 05-07-2012 9:26pm

Anthony16 wrote: »

She doesnt owe that money.
She started at 32 and had saved about 50k beforehand.
So probably owes about 50 now.
Not bad by any means.
no plans to settle down afaik.
I agree though,for those who want a family/mortgage and stay in ireland,it seems a ridiculous decision to go for GEM

It's fine if you want to be a GP, and our fortunate enough to get into the scheme you want - either way wherever you are you would be in a region of the country for a 4yr period

Traumadoc · 05-07-2012 11:16pm

RobFowl wrote: »

Buying a home as an NCHD is a very bad idea. You will be moving around repeatedly and probably even working abroad for long stretches. Literally you will not know where you are working more than a year in advance at best for the first 4-7 years at best.

I bought in 97 as NCHD, worked out fine for me.

RobFowl · 06-07-2012 3:44pm

Traumadoc wrote: »

I bought in 97 as NCHD, worked out fine for me.

As did I but its 2012 now !! You'll may buy but you'll have great difficulty selling it on if and when you have to move.

Ireland's changed a lot in the last 15 years

Dr Nic · 07-07-2012 11:44pm

Mind if I ask what kind of average mark got what intern place in each hospital?

Traumadoc · 08-07-2012 2:29am

RobFowl wrote: »

As did I but its 2012 now !! You'll may buy but you'll have great difficulty selling it on if and when you have to move.

Ireland's changed a lot in the last 15 years

Actually I think it is a relatively good time to buy ( in particular areas).
My main point would be that many of the graduate entrants will not have tis option as they will be severely hampered by having to pay 1k a month for 10 years.
It will be difficult enough to get a car loan never mind applying for a home loan.

I would agree with you that any NCHD who bought in the last 7 years could be limited in their options. I know someone who did and it has worked out OK. They are now training overseas and most of the mortgage has been covered.

Zagato · 08-07-2012 3:22pm

Well I know a number that will likely have to default on their mortgages if they wish to pursue a fellowship, as they finish their higher specialist training and there aren't consultant posts for them here to pay there mortgage if they wanted to stay.

Anyways - this is getting quite off topic.

Good luck to all the new interns tomorrow -I'll try to be nice to my one :rolleyes:

sillymoo · 08-07-2012 8:33pm

Zagato wrote: »

I'll try to be nice to my one :rolleyes:

Well this has done nothing to relieve my nerves - thanks :rolleyes:

Medical intern offers?

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