Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

Logical Fallacy · 26-11-2011 01:41PM

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps I'm wrong about this but there's something of the night about Julian Assange.

I wouldn't for a second comment on his guilt\innocence of the crimes that he has been accused of. Thats not for me to say. Neither would I criticise his work at wikileaks but I just get the feeling that there is something about him that unsettles me.

I just don't like the guy. My feelings were compounded when he took 300K to write a book and then tried to stop the book being released and refused to give back the cash.

Dude is just a bit of a tosser who is creating his own infamy.

Einhard · 26-11-2011 04:07PM

biko wrote: »

Particularly with Sweden's previous very poor conviction record on rape cases*
A study commissioned by the European Union found that Sweden has the highest incidence of reported rapes in Europe. And an Amnesty International report on rape in the Nordic Countries was highly critical of Sweden for an abysmally low conviction rate for rape cases.
http://www.gn.apc.org/network/news/sweden-has-worst-rape-conviction-record-europe

Surely then, you should be applauding the zeal with which they have pursued these allegations?

Johro · 26-11-2011 04:34PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I just don't like the guy. My feelings were compounded when he took 300K to write a book and then tried to stop the book being released and refused to give back the cash.

Dude is just a bit of a tosser who is creating his own infamy.

He is, frankly. Wikileaks though, is necessary.

V_Moth · 26-11-2011 09:04PM

stateofflux wrote: »

ye i don't like the look of him either, he looks like a rapist,just look at those beady eyes. i also refuse to believe all this conspiracy stitch up nonsense revolving around a man that poses/posed a serious security risk to the u.s. government & the covert side of their world affairs.

What the hell? You can't attribute a crime to somebody just because he looks a certain way! This is dangerously close to Eugenics. :mad:

Einhard · 30-11-2011 12:33AM

Anyone else watching the Wikileaks documentary on More4? It's fascinating to see the process behind the leaks, but I think it will make for uncomfortable viewing for all of those people, celebtiry and otherwise, who immediately jumped on the Assange bandwagon, and, amongst other things went on to make such reprehensible accusations against the women who accused him of rape.

Apparently, after the allegations were made public Assange agreed to take a back seat in the organisation, but continued to court publicity for himself. When his deputy criticised his actions in this matter, he was suspended by Assange for "disloyalty, insubordination, and destabilisation". This from a man who supposedly stands for openness and transparency, and speaking truth to power?

On the subject of the rape allegations, Assange's useful idiots in the media and online were quick to disparage the women who made the complaints. Yet Nick Davies of the Guardian states clearly that there is no way that the women were put up to it by anyone, or that their allegations are baseless. He further accuses Assange of telling lies in the matter, and calls him the most "extraordinarily dishonest" man he has ever met. And this is the noble, principled man that Jemima Khan and the like defended to the hilt, despite not being in the lop about the allegations! Useful idiots indeed.

Then, when the media outlets are critical of Assange, he pulls access to the Wikileaks info, and even, according to Guardian journalists, threaten them.

Worse of all though, and most damnng for Assange and his unthinking cheerleaders, is the treatment of Bradey Manning, the man who provided Assange with most of his material. According to his deputy, there was concern that, once Manning had been arrested, further leaks would put him in jeapordy. Assange dismissed this, and in the documentary basically states that Manning's safety came a poor second to his desire for complete disclosure. Again, this from a man who claims his motivation is to enhance justice. Indeed.

Perhaps more shocking is Assange's admission in the doc that Afghan villagers had indeed been put in danger of being tortured and executed by the Taleban, but that this was the fault of the US for letting the files be hacked in the first place!

I've always believed that the completely unredacted release of the dispatches was dangerous and foolhardy, and that ir recklessly put the lives of innocent men, women and children at risk. I do though applaud the the release of files in a responsible manner, with the removal of details incriminating local civilians. The attitude however, of people here and across the world, to the women who accused Assange of rape was shocking and reprehensible, and such was their treatment that many have reason to hang their heads in shame. The whole point of Wikileaks was that governmental and other institutions could not be exempt from valid scrutiny, and should be open and transparent in their dealings, and above all not immune to criticism. What a shocking irony, that Assange and his supporters managed to turn these admirable ideals on their heads when it came to him.

biko · 05-12-2011 02:51PM

Just an update
http://thechronicleherald.ca/world/39593-assange-permitted-apply-supreme-court-extradition-case

LONDON — A British court Monday gave WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange permission to continue his legal battle to avoid extradition to Sweden over sex crimes allegations.

The decision means Assange does not face immediate deportation. British judges said Assange could apply to the Supreme Court to hear one specific point of his legal case — but there is no guarantee that the higher court will accept his request.

Mervyn Crawford · 06-12-2011 07:59AM

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/assa-d06.shtml

The relentless campaign by the British, Swedish, Australian and US legal systems to get Assange is driven entirely by their role as upholders of the rule of the capitalist ruling class. The spin perpetrated in the 'independent' press and media is a crucial aspect of the onslaught against Assange.

Assange and Wikileaks dared to reveal only a fraction of the true nature of so-called democratic states.

The fight to defend Assange is political in the final analysis.

Manic Moran · 06-12-2011 09:54AM

by their role as upholders of the rule of the capitalist ruling class

Karl, is that you?

Mervyn Crawford · 19-12-2011 09:39AM

Bradley Manning and the attack on democratic rights
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/pers-d19.shtml

UK's Supreme Court will hear Assange appeal against extradition
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/assa-d19.shtml

A noted feature of those who uphold the so-called judicial process with regard to Julian Assange is their unwillingness to debate the information that both Assange and Bradley Manning have brought to light.

Mervyn Crawford · 01-03-2012 08:49AM

Consider the 'giggle test' of these statements:

The United States governemnt is a champion of the oppressed.

The United States government has no behind-the-scenes plan to get Julian Assange.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/mar2012/wiki-m01.shtml

biko · 01-03-2012 10:12AM

February 29, 2012

Fred Burton, Stratfor Vice-President for Counterterrorism and Corporate Security, provided some insight on the strategy against Wikileaks in emails leaked on the Wikileaks website.

"Take down the money. Go after his infrastructure. The tools we are using to nail and de-construct Wiki are the same tools used to dismantle and track aQ [Al Qaeda]. Thank Cheney & 43 [former US President George W. Bush]. Big Brother owns his liberal terrorist arse."

Burton is a former Deputy Chief of the Department of State's counterterrorism division for the Diplomatic Security Service (DSS). The DSS assists the DoD in following leads and doing forensic analysis of hard drives seized by the US Government in ongoing criminal investigations. He also stated what his strategy against Wikileaks founder Julian Assange would be:

"Bankrupt the arsehole first, ruin his life. Give him 7-12 yrs for conspiracy."

A few hours later he added the comment: "Assange is going to make a nice bride in prison. Screw the terrorist. He’ll be eating cat food forever."

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-02-29/news/31109543_1_julian-assange-wikileaks-founder-wikileaks-website

1 day ago

US prosecutors have drawn up secret charges against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, a confidential email cited by media said, as his lawyer demanded Australia start protecting him.
The email is one of a huge number from the US-based global intelligence company Stratfor that the whistleblowing organisation began publishing Monday.
Internal correspondence to Stratfor analysts from vice-president of intelligence Fred Burton said: "We have a sealed indictment on Assange," according to the Sydney Morning Herald.

Assange, an Australian citizen, is awaiting a British Supreme Court decision on his appeal against extradition to Sweden on sexual assault allegations.
He strongly denies the claims, saying they are politically motivated and linked to the activities of WikiLeaks.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5imSw_UGE9iDtQ6E6tiMJOoIL-N1g?docId=CNG.0e5ff74bcd4af58496be9afeaa19de8b.1f1

They're really going after him.

Jaafa · 01-03-2012 05:24PM

Delightful fellow that Fred.

Mervyn Crawford · 20-06-2012 01:23AM

Defend Julian Assange!

Pedant · 20-06-2012 04:17AM

Rape and sexual assault are serious charges. It's highly coincidental that two women would comes forward claiming to had been assaulted. How could two separate women lie? Assange is a slimey character trying to avoid justice.

He purposely exaggerated the value of Wikileaks to make people think that there's a government conspiracy against him and that those two woman were being paid by governments to lie. In doing so he knew he would get more public support and make it look like he was a saviour for unlocking incriminating government secrets. Most of the leaked diplomatic documents, however, are merely trivial and lots of the information released was pretty much common knowledge beforehand.

Assange is playing a game of smoke and mirror while trying to avoid justice. Looking at many interviews of Assange, he comes across to me as a bit of a manipulating sociopath. People need to realise that they're defending a rapist. The sooner he's being bars the better. I feel a massive amount of sympathy for his victims. Not only did those two women have to go through the horrifying ordeal of being raped by this bastard but also being painted as liars by the public, which probably made their recovery and coping with the trauma even more difficult.

humanji · 20-06-2012 08:56AM

Be aware that it is alleged that he committed a crime. It hasn't yet been proven one way or the other. Please don't make claims unless you can prove them. And if you can, then why aren't you telling the authorities in the UK and Sweden?

biko · 20-06-2012 09:12AM

Pedant, it seems to me you haven't been following this case at all.

Pedant wrote: »

It's highly coincidental that two women would comes forward claiming to had been assaulted. How could two separate women lie?

The women did know each other. It was only after they had spoken to each other, after each had sex with Assange several days apart, that they decided they had been raped.
They even arrived at the police station together. How is that two separate women?

Pedant wrote: »

People need to realise that they're defending a rapist.

That has yet to be established. But I see that some people just like to convict off the bat.

Pedant wrote: »

The sooner he's being bars the better. I feel a massive amount of sympathy for his victims. Not only did those two women have to go through the horrifying ordeal of being raped by this bastard but also being painted as liars by the public, which probably made their recovery and coping with the trauma even more difficult.

Don't you find it a bit odd that Assange, probably a man that's had sex with tons of women, never have been accused of rape before?
That he suddenly decides to go on a rape rampage in Sweden, having his way with two women within 3 days?

Sweden is considered the rape capital of Europe, with a massive share of cases just thrown out because evidence isn't strong enough - because the woman's testimony isn't considered enough without added evidence in the form of bruises, DNA, etc.
But this particular case has been opened, then closed, then opened again.

I'm not saying he didn't do it, that's for the courts to find out. I'm saying it's weird how a nation that routinely acquits rapists suddenly decides that this man isn't going to get away.

westendgirlie · 20-06-2012 09:58AM

He entered The Ecuadorian Embassy in London yesterday claiming asylum. Still there.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16249887

Unavailable for Comment · 20-06-2012 10:25AM

biko wrote: »

That has yet to be established. But I see that some people just like to convict off the bat.

Yeah, he hasn't even been formally charged yet. Under the Swedish judiciary system he can't be until he's interviewed by prosecutors again. In effect it means the arrest warrant was issued for interrogation. It's all very messy.

biko wrote: »

Sweden is considered the rape capital of Europe, with a massive share of cases just thrown out because evidence isn't strong enough - because the woman's testimony isn't considered enough without added evidence in the form of bruises, DNA, etc.

Sweden's high incidence of reported rape cases can be explained because of their broad and sweeping definitions of rape as illustrated by this whole Assange farce.

Also Sweden convicts three to four times as many men per head of population as the UK for example but this still appears as a small conviction rate when measured as a proportion of what is reported. Rape is hard to convict and if you have a compliant population ready to report assaults as they happen (which is rare) your conviction rates can appear skewed.

biko wrote: »

I'm not saying he didn't do it, that's for the courts to find out. I'm saying it's weird how a nation that routinely acquits rapists suddenly decides that this man isn't going to get away.

It does look a bit odd that the self styled champion of free speech is seeking asylum with a country with one of the worst records of limiting it!

Jester252 · 20-06-2012 10:49AM

westendgirlie wrote: »

He entered The Ecuadorian Embassy in London yesterday claiming asylum. Still there.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16249887

Well that not helping him

Mervyn Crawford · 20-06-2012 02:22PM

Julian Assange's mother interviewed by RT:

RT: Now Julian hasn’t been charged yet, but he’s already seeking political asylum, so why now? Is it too early to take such a step?

Christine Assange: Julian not only hasn’t been charged, he hasn’t even been questioned despite asking the Swedish government to do so for the last two years. The concern is of course that given the flagrant abuses of his human and legal rights in the Swedish case for two years, their refusal to adhere to their own police procedures and their own prosecutorial standards, that were he to go to Sweden, where he would be jailed straightaway, uncharged and unquestioned, he would not have the opportunity then to seek political asylum.

RT: Ecuador has an extradition treaty with the United States, so even if the Latin American state gives the green light and shelters your son, do you think he’s going to be 100% safe there?

CA: Ecuador I believe does have an extradition treaty, but if it’s ascertained from the investigation that the person seeking asylum is actually a political prisoner, then they don’t hand that prisoner over. Now this is something that many nations have signed up to, but a lot of them aren’t actually acting upon it, including the UK. They should have turned down that European arrest warrant coming from Sweden, because Julian had made himself very much available for questioning in Sweden, contrary to what the mainstream media and our own attorney general is saying to the public. He could not get the Swedes to actually question him on the second rape allegation; the first time it was raised it was quashed within 24 hours by the chief prosecutor of Stockholm, it was then resurrected ten days later by a politician lawyer running for election. The woman submitted a condom which she said Julian had torn, but upon investigation by the forensics department, there was no DNA evidence, it was appealed to the prosecutor, they shopped around until they found one, and the prosecutor upheld the appeal, and Julian was not even told about the hearing, and so these abuses of his human rights and legal rights in Sweden, they go on and on and on.

Full interview here:
http://www.rt.com/news/julian-sweden-prosecutor-rights-284/

Discussing the attack on Assange while taking all claims by the Swedish authorities as genuine is itself a political act. Attempting to understand Assange's struggle simply as an issue of alleged rape is akin to analysing the 'civil war' in Syria simply as a revolt against the Assad regime.
http://wsws.org/articles/2012/jun2012/jass-j20.shtml