Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

the realpigiron · 17-06-2012 04:35PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The majority that I know would accept demotion to Div3 and work our way back up.

I agree and think that this would be the best option for all concerned including the NewcoRangers.

Serious question - isn't it within the power of NewcoRangers to make this decision themselves regardless of the views of the other SPL clubs? Can't they simply set up their new club and apply to enter Scottish football at Div 3 level themselves seeing as - as you say - this is what most of their potential supporters want?

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-06-2012 04:41PM

Yes they can but that is not the reason Green has bought the assets. He wants a relatively short term return on his investment

the realpigiron · 17-06-2012 04:51PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Yes they can but that is not the reason Green has bought the assets. He wants a relatively short term return on his investment

If he was smart he'd make a good return on his investment within 3 years when a newco team would be back in the SPL with a new momentum and a bit of a buzz probably. If the new club go straight into the SPL under a cloud with conditions attached, they wont get that rebirth momentum.

lubo_moravcik · 17-06-2012 05:10PM

Demotion to Div 3? How can a new club face a demotion, surely The Rangers going to any of the 4 Scottish divisions is a promotion

Ludo · 17-06-2012 07:24PM

IF rangers are allowed stay in the premier league...is this not an lawsuit waiting to happen from lower league teams who feel hard done by? Haven't seem any mention of that anywhere really.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 07:28PM

Ludo wrote: »

IF rangers are allowed stay in the premier league...is this not an lawsuit waiting to happen from lower league teams who feel hard done by? Haven't seem any mention of that anywhere really.

Livingston have threatened legal action already

PauloMN · 17-06-2012 07:34PM

The whole thing is baffling to me tbh. How it is even up for discussion that an SPL club that has gone to the wall is possibly going to get replaced by a new club is completely beyond me and makes a mockery of the SPL/SFL. There should be no voting, no discussion. A new club is a new club and should enter the league like any other new club.

Best for Newco, best for the other clubs, best for Scottish football.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 07:34PM

Ludo wrote: »

IF rangers are allowed stay in the premier league...is this not an lawsuit waiting to happen from lower league teams who feel hard done by? Haven't seem any mention of that anywhere really.

Dempsey wrote: »

Livingston have threatened legal action already

I guess it depends on the situation with the SFA/SPL/SFL in that case - if it's still seperate then it comes down to who makes the final decision too.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 07:38PM

PauloMN wrote: »

The whole thing is baffling to me tbh. How it is even up for discussion that an SPL club that has gone to the wall is possibly going to get replaced by a new club is completely beyond me and makes a mockery of the SPL/SFL. There should be no voting, no discussion. A new club is a new club and should enter the league like any other new club.

Best for Newco, best for the other clubs, best for Scottish football.

Not good for idiot clubs like Kilmarnock though, they've based their whole financial model around things they dont control!

Savage Tyrant · 17-06-2012 07:49PM

I genuinely think starting from Div 3 would be the best option for the newco and their supporters. All gloating aside.
It's the only option that offers any dignity from the situation. Starting from the bottom and working back up.
What dignity is there for anyone to start in the SPL and be severly hamstrung?

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 07:59PM

The SPL gets enough snipes without sporting integrity being dragged through the gutter. I never cared whether Rangers got liquidated or not. I just want all the shenanigans to come into the public domain and the correct punishments applied. I find the idea that a club can be beyond punishing properly sickening. I find the mindset of Michael Johnston disgusting and I wish nothing but successive relegations for Kilmarnock

Guy:Incognito · 17-06-2012 08:04PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Livingston have threatened legal action already

Is the SPL not a seperate entity as it stands, like the EPL and can nominate whoever the hell they want to play in their league?

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 08:09PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is the SPL not a seperate entity as it stands, like the EPL and can nominate whoever the hell they want to play in their league?

They threatened the SFA if they dont punish Rangers appropriately

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/livingston/99924-livingston-threaten-legal-action-against-scottish-fa-over-rangers-situation/

I suppose they cant do anything to the SPL if the newco gets SPL status

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-06-2012 08:39PM

Dempsey wrote: »

I find the mindset of Michael Johnston disgusting and I wish nothing but successive relegations for Kilmarnock

True with the likes of Shiels asking for an anonymous vote so that none of them can be held accountable by the fans

Jelle1880 · 17-06-2012 09:42PM

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Demotion to Div 3? How can a new club face a demotion, surely The Rangers going to any of the 4 Scottish divisions is a promotion

Not if it's the same club...

PauloMN · 17-06-2012 09:43PM

Dempsey wrote: »

The SPL gets enough snipes without sporting integrity being dragged through the gutter. I never cared whether Rangers got liquidated or not. I just want all the shenanigans to come into the public domain and the correct punishments applied. I find the idea that a club can be beyond punishing properly sickening. I find the mindset of Michael Johnston disgusting and I wish nothing but successive relegations for Kilmarnock

It's the whole notion of clubs being able to decide whether another club is allowed in or not. It's ridiculous. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" etc..

There'll be years of problems resulting if a Newco is voted straight into the SPL.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 10:08PM

Paul, do you honestly believe the notion of "well scratch your back..." To be the case?
Do you honestly believe that any of the clubs thinking about keeping Rangers in the SPL are doing so as some sort of favour to Rangers?
I certainly don't, and the vast majority of bears certainly don't.

It's odd, Rangers supporters have taken dogs abuse from all areas because we have talked about boycotting the SPL if we are used as some sort if crutch to the likes of killie, yet as soon as a few hundred sheep fans talk of boycotts, everyone is right behind them.
I don't get it.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 10:18PM

Eirebear wrote: »

Paul, do you honestly believe the notion of "well scratch your back..." To be the case?
Do you honestly believe that any of the clubs thinking about keeping Rangers in the SPL are doing so as some sort of favour to Rangers?

You cant rule it out though, these clubs are heavily in debt and run their clubs in a short sighted manner. They will see the newco getting back into the SPL as a green light to follow suit. Celtic and St. Mirren are the only clubs with minimal debts AFAIK

PauloMN · 17-06-2012 10:23PM

Eirebear wrote: »

Paul, do you honestly believe the notion of "well scratch your back..." To be the case?
Do you honestly believe that any of the clubs thinking about keeping Rangers in the SPL are doing so as some sort of favour to Rangers?
I certainly don't, and the vast majority of bears certainly don't.

I don't believe it is directly some form of favour to Rangers, no. I do believe - as others have said - that some clubs seem to rely so heavily on the few quid that away fans bring in, and the perceived drop in TV money, that they would disregard the fact it's plain wrong to vote a newco into the SPL and vote in favour of a Newco Rangers joining the SPL.

If that happens, I think it would be naive to think that Newco Rangers would not be "reminded" of those votes that allowed them into the SPL - when it comes to future votes on other league issues.

Am I missing something here? What are the SPL rules to entry? Surely there are rules in black and white that state clearly what the rules are. Are they stupid enough not to have catered for this scenario, where a member club effectively shuts down and a free slot is created? Are the other SPL member clubs having to vote on this because there's no rule for this situation?

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 10:24PM

I'm not ruling it out, I think there is a very high chance it could happen. I don't see it as a favour to Rangers though as I think it could hurt us more than a demotion in the long run.
I've said this all along, and I'm not the only one but for some reason fans if other clubs see it as giving Rangers what they want.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 10:30PM

Paul I actually think its a combination of the rules not being up to scratch and the other clubs seeing a chance to milk Rangers (and Celtic) for more cash than they do already by bringing back shared gate reciepts etc.

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 10:43PM

Sevco getting back into the SPL will damage the Scottish game for decades, there will be a stigma attached worse than anything that has gone before.

You are applying for SPL status rather than SFL status so by definition you are looking to get what you want.

Is it just fan chatter or has some club mentioned bringing back shared gate receipts?

EDIT

I do agree that the rules arent up to scratch, the SPL, SFA & SFL have all been shown up

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 10:58PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Sevco getting back into the SPL will damage the Scottish game for decades, there will be a stigma attached worse than anything that has gone before.

You are applying for SPL status rather than SFL status so by definition you are looking to get what you want.

Is it just fan chatter or has some club mentioned bringing back shared gate receipts?

EDIT

I do agree that the rules arent up to scratch, the SPL, SFA & SFL have all been shown up

It would be foolish for Green and those running Rangers not to apply for SPL status as it stands, but from a supporters point of view i would say a large majority of us would rather be put in the 3rd division than face years of financial strangleholds and points deuctions in the SPL
(But hey, since when did we get a say?)

The "SPL 10" denied that they were after shared gates a few months ago, but it still appears in stories and columns in the media from time to time - let's face it, if they get the voting system changed they can pretty much head down whatever road they want.

bobmalooka · 17-06-2012 11:07PM

Eirebear wrote: »

I'm not ruling it out, I think there is a very high chance it could happen. I don't see it as a favour to Rangers though as I think it could hurt us more than a demotion in the long run.
I've said this all along, and I'm not the only one but for some reason fans if other clubs see it as giving Rangers what they want.

The Rangers have never played a game of football so how can they be demoted?

Dempsey · 17-06-2012 11:11PM

Eirebear wrote: »

It would be foolish for Green and those running Rangers not to apply for SPL status as it stands, but from a supporters point of view i would say a large majority of us would rather be put in the 3rd division than face years of financial strangleholds and points deuctions in the SPL
(But hey, since when did we get a say?)

The "SPL 10" denied that they were after shared gates a few months ago, but it still appears in stories and columns in the media from time to time - let's face it, if they get the voting system changed they can pretty much head down whatever road they want.

Yea, you are right to apply but dont be giving it the "not our fault we are applying for the SPL" routine imo, ye havent exactly done alot of complaining about the application!

The "SPL 10" sums up everything that is wrong with Scottish Football. If the ilk of shared gate receipts is best they can come up with, they should all be banned from being involved with football clubs, knuckleheads! I dont know what the answer is but adopting the best parts of the German Football model wouldnt be a half bad start.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 11:13PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

The Rangers have never played a game of football so how can they be demoted?

yeah yeah yeah, look we can pick up on the finer points of semantics later if you wish - right now we're discussing the future of scottish football.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 11:18PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Yea, you are right to apply but dont be giving it the "not our fault we are applying for the SPL" routine imo, ye havent exactly done alot of complaining about the application!

The "SPL 10" sums up everything that is wrong with Scottish Football. If the ilk of shared gate receipts is best they can come up with, they should all be banned from being involved with football clubs, knuckleheads! I dont know what the answer is but adopting the best parts of the German Football model wouldnt be a half bad start.

What can we do about it really?
I don't have an issue with the actual application, it should be up to the authorities and/or member clubs to decide our fate - my only wish is that we are punished fairly, and similarly to anyone else in this situation and not be treated differently because we are seen as a way of making money for short sighted chairmen.

I agree on the German model, i'm sure it could be adapted to our game, but untill we clear out all the old boys club and all of the little cliques who run the game to their own ends out we havnt a hope of any progression no matter what systems are in place.

bobmalooka · 17-06-2012 11:21PM

Eirebear wrote: »

yeah yeah yeah, look we can pick up on the finer points of semantics later if you wish - right now we're discussing the future of scottish football.

semantics :eek: the vulture Green has fooled you too

The best for The Rangers is to join the SFL from the bottom and build a solid stable club.

The best for Greens 'quick sale' route is to get them into the SPL by hook or bt crook. It'll destroy the league and your new club.

Eirebear · 17-06-2012 11:25PM

bobmalooka wrote: »

semantics :eek: the vulture Green has fooled you too

The best for The Rangers is to join the SFL from the bottom and build a solid stable club.

The best for Greens 'quick sale' route is to get them into the SPL by hook or bt crook. It'll destroy the league and your new club.

I'm not fooled by anybody - but at the end of the day my use of the word "demoted" is neither here nor their in the grand scheme of this discussion.

bobmalooka · 17-06-2012 11:31PM

Eirebear wrote: »

I'm not fooled by anybody - but at the end of the day my use of the word "demoted" is neither here nor their in the grand scheme of this discussion.

good, he's relying on people like you to buy into his crap and pump your hard earned cash into his pockets before he drops the club.

There seems to be an awfull lot of rangers fans who seem to think its all semantics and things will be back to normal come August. This mentality will allow Green to screw ye over.(and butcher the SPL while hes at it)

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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