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General Practitioners are overpaid?

135

Comments

  • #62
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    dirtyden wrote: »
    Can you give examples?

    nope, I just remember reading through a huge thread on it here at some point.

    Paracetemol would be one I suppose, 16p up north, ten times that (or more) in the south - not quite a prescription but an example of Ireland's general refusal to go generic.

    Dentists openly advertise brands to you (as a point of interest), not quite the same league as medication of course but still entirely unethical IMO


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    January wrote: »
    Yeah, give you a wide range antibiotic such as amoxicillin.

    Amoxicillin isn't first line treatment.


  • #64
    thebankers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭thebankers


    Terry wrote: »
    I can't believe you're calling me a stalker.
    That's defamation of character.
    How dare you defame my good name by calling me a stalker!!!
    I am a pillar of society.

    I'm going to sue you and boards.ie because of your fiendish allegations.*



    The dude's a conspiracy nut.
    I guarantee that he will be site banned within 24 hours. Not because of this thread, but because he has been found to be a re-registered user who has been banned many times.

    If I'm wrong, I will apologise, but I'm never wrong.

    As for GPs being over-paid, I'd prefer give money to doctors than to, let's say politicians or soccer players. Both of whom are paid far too much for what they do.

    *The suing stuff is a joke.
    I will never ever even attempt to sue boards.ie or any of its members or anyone even remotely attached to the boards group or its owners, partners or subsidiaries.
    Also, and I want this following statement to be remembered, I really do not give a flying fúck about what any member of this site says about me.

    I still believe that the OP is a conspiracy theorist who has been site banned in the past.

    I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but doubt that I will.
    Goodnight.

    I never called you a stalker:) Although inference can be drawn from the context of that post, maybe yes. You aren't wrong about that. The bit in bold makes quite alot of sense in fairness to you. It's GP's mainly that are overpaid at times, not the specialist staff who actually tend to extensive research, which still has the potential to be compromised.

    The only things I want people to consider is:

    1: Like the UK - Demand generic drug availability, private companies should not be allowed a monopoly here, unlike the UK. Retailers here tend to pretend that it's somehow acceptable, like the USA.

    2: Improve the GP thing for god sake. The NHS in the UK is free for initial consultations, and the drugs can be nearly 60% cheaper for the same non generic drug!!! I even know some brits who complain about the prices of the generics, let alone the non generics which can be anywhere up to 60% cheaper over there.


  • #65
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Not only are GPs over paid, we don't need GPs in the modern system. The proof of this is made obvious by the GPs themselves, who don't work all the time, it's not a 24/7 operation, unlike paramedics who do the same job when the GPs are sleeping,

    If you have 7 years of training go work in a hospital.


  • #66
    thebankers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭thebankers


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    600 an hour so. Do you think this all goes into his pocket, or does it pay for him, equipment, rent, rates, power, an assistant, a nurse maybe, admin, accounting etc...

    Of course not, but a 5 min consultation is hardly going to make a dent in these expenses, at least that is the way it should be. They aren't running a factory!!!


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  • #67
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

    A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.


  • #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    shuridunno wrote: »
    Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

    The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.
    [/QUOTE]

    Is this in relation to HDL and LDL?


  • #69
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    thebankers wrote: »
    Of course not, but a 5 min consultation is hardly going to make a dent in these expenses, at least that is the way it should be. They aren't running a factory!!!

    no, they're running a business, in a market which has huge compitition. you as a customer are perfectly entitled to take your business elsewhere for a better / cheaper sevice.


  • #70
    wilkie2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭wilkie2006


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

    A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.

    Not only that, GPs act as gatekeeper to secondary care. Without them the system would become (even more) clogged up.


  • #71
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

    A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.

    If the paramedics are handling the emergencies then the hard work, which requires medical knowledge, is handled by the paramedics who are paid less. The paramedics can do what GPs do freeing people with more training to workin hospitals.


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  • #72
    thebankers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭thebankers


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    accounting is not a 24/7 operation, do we suddenly not need them either?

    A GP is for the less severe end of the spectrum and/or a first port of call, paramedics are for emergencies and/or severe issues that need immediate treatment. There's quite a difference.

    No, all I am saying is that the work performed in that timeframe does not justify charging someone 50 euro. Granted it can be stressfull and they have to work out of hours at times too, but it really depends on the situation.

    I found a drug manufactured in Ireland the other day, being sold in Britain for over 50% less. Not surprisingly, it wasn't a generic drug. Now I know duty between Ireland and UK isn't excessive, so what is the deal?

    British people aren't willing to put up with as much crap. This is reflected in their drug pricing.


  • #73
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    If the paramedics are handling the emergencies then the hard work, which requires medical knowledge, is handled by the paramedics who are paid less. The paramedics can do what GPs do freeing people with more training to workin hospitals.

    so you'd rather just GPs in hospitals than all the different specialists there? GPs, while having a vst knowledge bank, generally do not have the required specialist subject knowledge required for a lot of hospital treatment cases. Thats why there are surgeons, gynos, cardiac specialists etc, seems a rather more sensible system to me


  • #74
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    wilkie2006 wrote: »
    Not only that, GPs act as gatekeeper to secondary care. Without them the system would become (even more) clogged up.

    So do paramedics and nurses in walk in centres. The GP is an anachronism , it's a relic of the Doctor's job from the 19th century where they actually did the work now done by specialists, and in hospitals, including surgeries.. For which they had the same training they have now. The training is too much now, replace them with nurses and paramedics, and everybody with a Dr. Degree works in a hospital, where they are not overpaid, cos that is real hard work.


  • #75
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    so you'd rather just GPs in hospitals than all the different specialists there? GPs, while having a vst knowledge bank, generally do not have the required specialist subject knowledge required for a lot of hospital treatment cases. Thats why there are surgeons, gynos, cardiac specialists etc, seems a rather more sensible system to me

    Does every doctor in A&E have to be a specialist? Use the training of the Dr. to work in there with broken arms, quick surgeries, etc. rather than handing out aspirins.


  • #76
    thebankers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭thebankers


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    no, they're running a business, in a market which has huge compitition. you as a customer are perfectly entitled to take your business elsewhere for a better / cheaper sevice.

    Your point is 100% valid. But this is a symptom of a broken system. Fix the pricing policies through legislation, and bye bye to these cut throat practices. At least by some margin.


  • #77
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,839 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Not only are GPs over paid, we don't need GPs in the modern system. The proof of this is made obvious by the GPs themselves, who don't work all the time, it's not a 24/7 operation, unlike paramedics who do the same job when the GPs are sleeping,

    If you have 7 years of training go work in a hospital.

    What are you talking about?

    GP's are obliged by their contract to provide 24/7 care for their patient. That is why they pay into schemes such as East Doc and Shannon Doc. GP's themselves go on call with these out of hours agencies - they are not staffed by paramedics. You are very misinformed if you think that paramedics take over from GP's after 5PM. I suggest you do a little research before posting.

    Our hospitals are already unable to cope with their current workload - do you think they would be able to cope if every person self presented to a hospital?


  • #78
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    thebankers wrote: »
    Your point is 100% valid. But this is a symptom of a broken system. Fix the pricing policies through legislation, and bye bye to these cut throat practices. At least by some margin.

    so a cartel with the government is a better option than open competition?
    If you were a Doctor and was suddenly told you can only charge X instead of Y and after looking at it realised X was not enough income to support your business and earn a decent salary (reflective of the time and effort gone into qualification and CPD) then why would you bother sticking around?

    I'm not saying I don't agree the fees in IRL a high, but not crazily so, and you have to consider all the additional costs of bureaucracy that the state ladles onto businesses when demanding that charges to the public are cut by big amounts by the same state legislation.


  • #79
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    GP's are obliged by their contract to provide 24/7 care for their patient. That is why they pay into schemes such as East Doc and Shannon Doc. GP's themselves go on call with these out of hours agencies - they are not staffed by paramedics. You are very misinformed if you think that paramedics take over from GP's after 5PM. I suggest you do a little research before posting.

    Our hospitals are already unable to cope with their current workload - do you think they would be able to cope if every person self presented to a hospital?

    I have no idea what those schemes are, I have never visited a GP past 5. I bet 90% of out of hour emergencies are handled by paramedics. What stats do you have?


  • #80
    jsd1004
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 847 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    If the paramedics are handling the emergencies then the hard work, which requires medical knowledge, is handled by the paramedics who are paid less. The paramedics can do what GPs do freeing people with more training to workin hospitals.

    GP's also only do as they are trained, they do not question medicine or offer alternative therapies. They do not question physciatric treatment and prescribe anti depressants and antibiotics routinely just to cover themselves..also the issuing of med certs is disgraceful. Symphysiotomy,lobotomys among others is not very flattering of the medical profession. ( Not blaming GP's in general just the medical profession).


  • #81
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,839 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    I have no idea what those schemes are, I have never visited a GP past 5. I bet 90% of out of hour emergencies are handled by paramedics. What stats do you have?

    If you require GP care out of hours, then you go to your out of hours service - which is staffed by a (shock, horror!) GP. Paramedics do not provide GP care past 5PM, as you seem to suggest.

    National Review of GP Out of Hours Service

    Read up on it.
    The total number of calls handled in the nine main cooperatives in 2008, amounted
    to 915,999. The extended hours’ cooperatives handled 26,001 calls, totalling
    942,000 calls nationally for the year. Caredoc handled the most calls (290,735)
    which included triage calls (78,712) for DDoc, while KDoc handled the least
    number (41,940).
    The majority of the cooperatives commence their ‘red‐eye’ shift at 12 midnight and
    finish at 8am Monday to Sunday. However, Caredoc and SouthDoc operate from
    11pm to 8am weekdays and 9pm to 9am weekends and bank holidays. In WestDoc
    one cell commences the ‘red‐eye’ shift at 10pm every night while another cell
    commences at 10pm on weekends. In ShannonDoc the ‘red‐eye’ shift operates
    from midnight to 9am at weekends and bank holidays, while in the overnight
    centres the locum may commence at 8pm. NowDoc has one centre that operates 12
    midnight to 9am. ‘Red‐eye’ arrangements are not provided by the extended hours’
    cooperatives.

    It is GP's who man those co-operatives and do the shift work - rubbishing your entire notion that GP's book off at 5PM. If they do not want to work the shifts then they pay dearly for it (approx €900 for buying out a six hour session).


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  • #82
    Bad Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭Bad Panda


    thebankers wrote: »
    50 euro for a 5 min consultation. No tests, just a glance. That is a joke. There should be laws clamping down with on this sort of thing. Engineers save lives too, just in an indirect manner. Engineers and Biological Researchers save lives too, yet aren't always paid as much.


    Careful now.


  • #83
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    I have no idea what those schemes are, I have never visited a GP past 5. I bet 90% of out of hour emergencies are handled by paramedics. What stats do you have?

    How do you mean paramedics, they are not qualified the same as doctors or nurses afaik.


  • #84
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    hondasam wrote: »
    How do you mean paramedics, they are not qualified the same as doctors or nurses afaik.

    But they are the ones handling emergencies.


  • #85
    Africa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Africa


    I kind of agree with OP. It should be more balanced for sure depending on time/issue.

    I went to a GP a few weeks ago and basically had to tell HIM what was wrong with me. He really didnt want to do the job properly, or was just that incompetent that didnt know how to. I knew I had an ear infection in one ear and knew I needed the other ear syringed, yet he wanted to neither give me a prescription for antibiotics ("it will heal itself"... eh no, its been this way for about 3 weeks. I know its an infection) or the syringe ("it doesnt look blocked, itll be ok" eh, no, its blocked. Its happened before. Please syringe it.) and then after I was charged 60 for this joke! I was appalled. I stupidly paid for it. I regret it so much. I was booked for a follow up which was to be another 50, but said feck that, and didnt call to tell the clinic I wasnt coming, so hopefully wasted his time. Yep, I am cynical like that. The WORST part is he was teaching a student from Malaysia and had him in the room. When leaving, he actually said to the student "Sometimes the patient know themselves from past experiences and can guide you well." Bastardhole.


  • #86
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    But they are the ones handling emergencies.

    I'm not sure what you mean tbh, I think we are thinking paramedics are two different things. What do you think a paramedic's job is?


  • #87
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    My gp is fantastic, goes above and beyond for me on a regular basis. Worth 5 times her salary


  • #88
    finty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭finty


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Not only are GPs over paid, we don't need GPs in the modern system. The proof of this is made obvious by the GPs themselves, who don't work all the time, it's not a 24/7 operation, unlike paramedics who do the same job when the GPs are sleeping,

    If you have 7 years of training go work in a hospital.

    You should win a medal for this post....


  • #89
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    But they are the ones handling emergencies.

    they are first response and treat / stabilise the patients only for as long as it takes to hand them over to doctors / specialists in the hospitals to do the work* of fixing the problems and starting recovery.

    *I'm not trying in any way to diminish the work they do, just trying to put it in context against what goes on after a patient arrives at the hospital


  • #90
    Deus Ex Machina
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭Deus Ex Machina


    I've recently had some personal differences with people currently training for the medical profession, so I think doctors should have a severe, almost crippling pay cut.


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  • #91
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    Deus Ex Machina wrote: »
    I've recently had some personal differences with people currently training for the medical profession, so I think doctors should have a severe, almost crippling pay cut.

    so glad you're not in power


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