General Practitioners are overpaid?

thebankers · 14-06-2012 10:04PM

Well I got shafted out of money and am still in the dark about my issue. Does the GP give a ****e? Not unless I pay for something which should be covered by the original visit two months ago. Either way, I am just blowing off steam. Nobody is perfect:D

Funny how people think you must be short of a 6 pack because you question an establishment. Which does wonders at times, but has a somewhat dark side to it aswell.

mattjack · 14-06-2012 10:05PM

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Seems like he's trying to educate himself on a medical topic in a pretty friendly, polite manner. No need for the sarcasm like. Especially when his GP wouldn't answer what is probably a simple enough medical question.

You're right , I shouldn,t be sarcastic .

thebankers · 14-06-2012 10:06PM

Terry wrote: »

You (and your ilk) are one of the main reasons I miss being a mod.

I used to get great pleasure out of finding out which conspiracy theorist you were (are).

It was like detective work, but without having to leave the house.
All you have to do is click a few links and there you are.

Yeah, the tenses are mixed up there, but I understand my post and that's all that matters.

Either way, you need more fluoride in your water. Wooooooooo!

Stalking is illegal and generally for people with too much time on their hands.

Mr.Wemmick · 14-06-2012 10:12PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

And so should they charge you more if what you thought was a bit of constipation turned out to be colon cancer and hence your GP saved your life by diagnosing your cancer early before it could have become really serious??

Never happens! It's the patient who has to assertively express the seriousness of what they're going through to doctors.. too many times, I have found doctors get it wrong so you have to keep going back to them.

My family and friends have come across many GPs who do not listen, fail to follow up on, or dismiss symptoms, and need to pushed and questioned before they forward on any concerns to specialists.

It's not difficult to figure out that persistent constipation, or any persistent pain, needs to be assessed by a specialist. A GP doesn't save your life but should pass you on to someone that can, but very often they don't or they delay in doing so.

Dwellingdweller · 14-06-2012 10:14PM

Terry wrote: »

You (and your ilk) are one of the main reasons I miss being a mod.

I used to get great pleasure out of finding out which conspiracy theorist you were (are).

It was like detective work, but without having to leave the house.
All you have to do is click a few links and there you are.

Yeah, the tenses are mixed up there, but I understand my post and that's all that matters.

Either way, you need more fluoride in your water. Wooooooooo!

How does saying GPs are overpaid equate to being a conspiracy theorist?

They are overpaid. In Germany, GPs get paid half of what they get paid here. I understand that you believe OP is a conspiracy theorist because of what he says about the pharmaceutical industry and it's links with the medical industry, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

Final Approach · 14-06-2012 10:22PM

I am just wondering, how much on average are GP's actually paid? I know its E50+ from a paying patient, but a significant percentage of patients are medical card holders, so not sure how much they are each worth per visit to a GP. Per annum, would E70'000 to E100'000 be a reasonable guess?

Dwellingdweller · 14-06-2012 10:28PM

Final Approach wrote: »

I am just wondering, how much on average are GP's actually paid? I know its E50+ from a paying patient, but a significant percentage of patients are medical card holders, so not sure how much they are each worth per visit to a GP. Per annum, would E70'000 to E100'000 be a reasonable guess?

This might come across as slightly irrelevant but GPs get paid more depending on how many patients they have on their roster also. So the salary of a GP depends on a few factors, how many patients are on their roster, how many days they work a year, how many prescriptions they write. ETC.

mattjack · 14-06-2012 10:28PM

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

How does saying GPs are overpaid equate to being a conspiracy theorist? They are overpaid. In Germany, GPs get paid half of what they get paid here. I understand that you believe OP is a conspiracy theorist because of what he says about the pharmaceutical industry and it's links with the medical industry, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

Where would I look to find the above info. about the link between GP,s and pharma. companies. ,

wilkie2006 · 14-06-2012 10:40PM

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid?

Well they're not. "Overpaid" - like "underpaid" - doesn't mean anything unless you consider supply and demand. Currently, demand outweighs supply. If you want to bring down the cost of a GP consultation why don't you and your friends all train for seven years (maybe more?) and qualify as doctors. Then start a thread in AH complaining that bus drivers make too much money.

Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures,

GPs have very little to do with the pharmaceutical industry. Whether pharma companies are "corrupt" or "shady" is an entirely different topic.

some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

"Some", not all. Like any profession. So what?

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

No.

mattjack · 14-06-2012 10:42PM

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Well they're not. "Overpaid" - like "underpaid" - doesn't mean anything unless you consider supply and demand. Currently, demand outweighs supply. If you want to bring down the cost of a GP consultation why don't you and your friends all train for seven years (maybe more?) and qualify as doctors. Then start a thread in AH complaining that bus drivers make too much money.

GPs have very little to do with the pharmaceutical industry. Whether pharma companies are "corrupt" or "shady" is an entirely different topic.

"Some", not all. Like any profession. So what?

No.

Shhh you.... with your sensible observations and contributions.

wilkie2006 · 14-06-2012 10:43PM

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

I'd love to see how you can back that up.

Terry · 14-06-2012 10:45PM

thebankers wrote: »

Stalking is illegal and generally for people with too much time on their hands.

I can't believe you're calling me a stalker.
That's defamation of character.
How dare you defame my good name by calling me a stalker!!!
I am a pillar of society.

I'm going to sue you and boards.ie because of your fiendish allegations.*

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

How does saying GPs are overpaid equate to being a conspiracy theorist? They are overpaid. In Germany, GPs get paid half of what they get paid here. I understand that you believe OP is a conspiracy theorist because of what he says about the pharmaceutical industry and it's links with the medical industry, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

The dude's a conspiracy nut.
I guarantee that he will be site banned within 24 hours. Not because of this thread, but because he has been found to be a re-registered user who has been banned many times.

If I'm wrong, I will apologise, but I'm never wrong.

As for GPs being over-paid, I'd prefer give money to doctors than to, let's say politicians or soccer players. Both of whom are paid far too much for what they do.

*The suing stuff is a joke.
I will never ever even attempt to sue boards.ie or any of its members or anyone even remotely attached to the boards group or its owners, partners or subsidiaries.
Also, and I want this following statement to be remembered, I really do not give a flying fúck about what any member of this site says about me.

I still believe that the OP is a conspiracy theorist who has been site banned in the past.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, but doubt that I will.
Goodnight.

Cookie_Monster · 14-06-2012 10:48PM

thebankers wrote: »

50 euro for a 5 min consultation. .

600 an hour so. Do you think this all goes into his pocket, or does it pay for him, equipment, rent, rates, power, an assistant, a nurse maybe, admin, accounting etc...

Cookie_Monster · 14-06-2012 10:49PM

wilkie2006 wrote: »

I'd love to see how you can back that up.

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

mattjack · 14-06-2012 10:51PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

600 an hour so. Do you think this all goes into his pocket, or does it pay for him, equipment, rent, rates, power, an assistant, a nurse maybe, admin, accounting etc...

It does. Have you seen the size of the pockets they have on the white coats they wear ?

Terry · 14-06-2012 11:04PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

I'm so fúcked that I need 11 different pills a day.
My GP prescribes the generic brands, and my Pharmacist always tells me I'm getting the generic brands, but doesn't try to push the "Big Pharma" pills.

I get little notes on the boxes saying "same as <insert brand name here>".

This is why I find this thread so funny.

dirtyden · 14-06-2012 11:06PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

Can you give examples?

Most of the better treatments out there are still patented brands as the golden era of drug discovery was the mid nineties to the early noughties, also any prescription drug needs to be approved by the IMB and many generic companies do not have licenses to sell their products in the EU as simply they dont meet the quality standards.

In the coming years more generic brands will become available but it is simply not the case currently. There are a few out there now but there is not a similar or better generic alternative to many of the current brand name drugs.

wilkie2006 · 14-06-2012 11:11PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The total and utter lack of generic non branded equivilents available.
I though that this was a well accepted point, sure you can go up noth or to Spain and get the same drugs, just non branded, for a fraction of the price.

Drugs have a 20 year patent. Generic/non-branded drugs can only be produced when the patent expires. When the patent expires they're freely available wherever the original drug has been passed as safe by individual countries' drug regulator.

If you're buying unbranded versions of new drugs then you're very silly because they've probably been made in a shed somewhere.

EDIT:

also any prescription drug needs to be approved by the IMB and many generic companies do not have licenses to sell their products in the EU as simply they dont meet the quality standards.

I stand corrected, though the rest of my post is sound.

Odysseus · 14-06-2012 11:26PM

I often spend 30-60 mins with my GP on each consulation, then again I have had some moderate medical issues and we tend to talk shop or sky-diving shooting. I often feel guility when leaving and people are starting at me. Then again I am attending there since I was 17.

Odysseus · 14-06-2012 11:41PM

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

, but he's right. Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

Not they do not, any proff on this.

Sierra Oscar · 14-06-2012 11:46PM

thebankers wrote: »

50 euro for a 5 min consultation. No tests, just a glance. That is a joke. There should be laws clamping down on this sort of thing. Engineers save lives too, just in an indirect manner. Engineers and Biological Researchers save lives too, yet aren't always paid as much.

€35 for a consultation with my GP, which probably last 25 minutes on average judging by how long it takes for him to get through patients.

You need to find a better GP.

shuridunno · 14-06-2012 11:55PM

thebankers wrote: »

Why are these people so grossly overpaid? Notwithstanding the fact that alot of GP's are a product of the corporate money making field of general medicine, where research is corrupted through the influence of shady corporations intent on managing conditions, not cures, some also tend to exhibit a god complex.

Medical Research is by it's very nature, not a pure natural science. Am I on to something here, or just plain crazy? I don't understand the craze for medical places in this country. It's not the most important field by any means Medical Research is still by and large in the dark ages. Mathematicians should get 10 euro a min like a GP, no? Seems fair I think.

If you consider that you have to pay €50 for a 10 min app while waiting up to half an hour to be seen by a person who has no interest in talking to you and just getting you a prescription/referring you, then yes.

There was a media thing a while back where a doctor said they just wouldn't have the time to keep up with the research that pours into their office.

You need to be very informed yourself and realise that GPs are GENERAL PRACTITIONERS, they do not specialise in anything and therefore are just a first port of call to sending you to someone who knows what's really wrong with you.

The best thing my GP ever said was...''I am not the all knowing, I do not have the answers, but I will certainly help you get ehat you need''

Referral>consultant>diagnosis>plan of action..

So, should the question be, are they paid too much, or do we expect too much.
I think they are paid too much for people who really just run a few tests, diagnose infections or refer to a specialist.

Maybe they have overheads we don't know about:rolleyes: do they have to pay the hospitals for the blood work you get done, rent, staff, supplies....ah, I dunno. Just womdering if I can justify it.

dirtyden · 14-06-2012 11:56PM

Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).[/QUOTE]

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.

shuridunno · 14-06-2012 11:58PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

€35 for a consultation with my GP, which probably last 25 minutes on average judging by how long it takes for him to get through patients.

You need to find a better GP.

would agree, I have seen a few GPs, ranging from, 40-75, the one I settled with is 50 and never rushes me out the door, I could be with him for 25mins, so I allow others to do the same, I just bring a good book to my appointment.:)

Shryke · 15-06-2012 12:02AM

af_thefragile wrote: »

No. They are not.

They spent 5-6 hard years in med school learning how to be a good doctor so that when you fall ill, they know what to do and when something is serious and you need to see a specialist and when something is not serious and you just need to sit tight and wait for it to go away and when you need to be rushed into AnE!

Can anyone else do that? No!
Can you live without your GP? No!

And yes, 5mins is all a good GP needs. It doesn't take much for a trained GP to diagnose what's wrong with you and what needs to be done.
There are other people he needs to see too. Many of whom have more serious problems and hence the GP needs to use his time properly so that he can see all the people who're waiting outside to be seen.

None of any of this translates into a ridiculously high fee being charged. And every third level course worth its salt requires a couple of years hard work. Not everyone puts that in though, and some of those who don't still graduate. And some of them can end up being doctors.
It's exactly because everyone needs checkups and medical help through their lives that it shouldn't be so expensive.
GPs I've had to deal with are half clueless and half non caring. Even with that though I still don't think badly of them. That doesn't mean I'm impressed either. I like to take the most reasonable viewpoint on something like this..
In my experience GPs are completely clueless and la di da. Hospital staff on the other hand are amazing, and very over worked.

shuridunno · 15-06-2012 12:03AM

dirtyden wrote: »

Irish GPs get paid to prescribe drugs by drug companies. The doctors are, effectively, the salespeople for these drugs. And if a doctor prescribes you a drug, chances are you'll go off and get your prescription filled, because you believe that he has your interests at heart.

Usually, GPs do (I hope), but that doesn't change the fact of the matter, which is that there are extremely strong links in Ireland between big pharma and GPs. That's not a conspiracy, that's just the reality. They also get paid a lot too (and that's not a conspiracy either).

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.[/QUOTE]

Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.

eyesquirm · 15-06-2012 12:04AM

Terry wrote: »

I'm so fúcked that I need 11 different pills a day.
My GP prescribes the generic brands, and my Pharmacist always tells me I'm getting the generic brands, but doesn't try to push the "Big Pharma" pills.

I get little notes on the boxes saying "same as <insert brand name here>".

This is why I find this thread so funny.

22,600 or so posts?
Its not your fingers that are fúcked, anyway.....

:pac:

Couldn't resist

shuridunno · 15-06-2012 12:05AM

shuridunno wrote: »

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.

Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.[/QUOTE]

Sierra Oscar · 15-06-2012 12:07AM

happyfish wrote: »

GP's aren't like other public service employees, they're effectively self employed and running their own businesses, whether that's what they wanted or not.

Many GP's would actually love if they were paid a decent salary where the state provided a premises and staff rather than having to effectively run their own business, where the costs have steadily risen in recent years. The fee's that GP's receive from the state are down over 35% since 2009 - they do not have the protection that people in the public sector have for example under Croke Park. Furthermore it is important to recognise that GP's receive a capitation fee on average of €130 per annum for medical card holders, which in turn entitles medical card holders to attend the GP as many times as they want. Considering the fact that private practice has evaporated (down by over 40% since 2008) and that the number of people holding medical cards has spiralled, it does not take a genius to recognise that GP's are under quite severe strain.

This weeks Irish Medical Times has published an extensive survey of over three hundred GP practices in Ireland where over 90% of the respondents stated that they would no longer recommend the profession to their family members, a massive spike compared to previous surveys.

The fact of the matter is that primary care in Ireland is in crisis.

shuridunno · 15-06-2012 12:07AM

shuridunno wrote: »

You do realise that statement is libellous. You are accusing irish GP's of illegality. It is illegal for a pharma company to pay a GP and also illegal for a GP to accept any payment from a pharma company (with the intent of promoting product sales). Now I could not say for sure if this occurs but I would be surprised if it was an issue.

Sales people from drugs companies visit hospitals and arrange seminars with invited GPs to promote their products the same as any other industry would, however despite numerous investigations I dont think any evidence is out there of what you describe.

Cholesterol lowering drugs are one of the biggest drug companies, I have been prescribed them, but after my own research, chose not too take them. too many people just take GPs as the final word.

The Cholesterol Con is a good read for anyone interested in the marketing behind health or conspiracy health issues.[/QUOTE]

There's some weird **** going on here, this is not what I wrote, The unhighlighted part is waht I wrote

General Practitioners are overpaid?

Comments