Is storm front a troll site ?

SMASH THE UNIONS · 14-06-2012 07:31PM

Do you really want to know the reasons why the White Nationalist Movement exists, or did you just start this thread to show everybody how "progressive and liberal" you are?

I can educate you, but I'll have to do it via PM. Boards.ie apparently doesn't allow freedom of speech.

af_thefragile · 14-06-2012 07:33PM

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Do you really want to know the reasons why the White Nationalist Movement exists, or did you just start this thread to show everybody how "progressive and liberal" you are?

I can educate you, but I'll have to do it via PM. Boards.ie apparently doesn't allow freedom of speech.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and inciting racial hatred and bigotry...

SMASH THE UNIONS · 14-06-2012 07:34PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

There is a difference between freedom of speech and inciting racial hatred and bigotry...

You can continue to shut down debate by crying "WACIST" or you can open your ears to understand why certain people feel the way they do. I'm only the messenger.

IrishAm · 14-06-2012 07:35PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

Because such slogans are associated with white supremacists and the Nazi/KKK type...

Yes. And slogans such as "Black and Proud" are associated with peace loving groups such as the Black Panthers and militant Black Nationalists who claim that raping white women is legitimate action to take out as revenge against the white man.

RayM · 14-06-2012 07:36PM

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Do you really want to know the reasons why the White Nationalist Movement exists, or did you just start this thread to show everybody how "progressive and liberal" you are?

I can educate you, but I'll have to do it via PM. Boards.ie apparently doesn't allow freedom of speech.

Oh please... "educate" us all on the merits of white nationalism. Show us how self-consciously un-progressive and illiberal you are.

The King of Moo · 14-06-2012 07:38PM

Pedant wrote: »

In fairness, if there was a shop that called itself "White and Proud", the owners of the shop would automatically be branded as racists.

That's true, but in the context of the west, such slogans are more likely to be associated with white supremacism. Someone saying they're white and proud would be more than aware of such racist connotations, and therefore more likely to be a racist.
Saying one is black and proud doesn't have those connotations. In fact, it has somewhat positive connotations in certain contexts such as the US where it would be used by a minority population who until recently suffered great official and unofficial discrimination, and are still discriminated against to an extent. So it comes with connotations of an oppressed minority community resisting their repression and finding solidarity in their common bond.

Context is everything. This also comes into effect in terms of power relations. Being black means being in the minority, and therefore, even if one saying they were black and proud were actually racist, they wouldn't represent any great threat to the population of the country.
Yet if I were black and encountered people in Ireland saying they were white and proud I'd feel at least a little uncomfortable, as white people are in such an overwhelming majority here, with the corresponding amount of social and political power, not to mention the widely-known negative connotations associated with the term "white pride" I mentioned earlier.

af_thefragile · 14-06-2012 07:40PM

IrishAm wrote: »

Yes. And slogans such as "Black and Proud" are associated with peace loving groups such as the Black Panthers and militant Black Nationalists who claim that raping white women is legitimate action to take out as revenge against the white man.

You see such debates never end well, so there's no point in getting into all of that.

They're both bad but historically the Nazi/KKK type have been more vocal and violent than the "black and proud" type so people more readily associate "White and proud" with the Nazi/KKK group while they tend to associate "Black and Proud" with Shaft.

Irish Guitarist · 14-06-2012 07:40PM

No. It's just full of idiots.
I've looked at it once or twice out of curiosity. I once saw someone complain about the Polish population in Ireland. A Polish member of the site was incensed that someone who called themselves a Nazi didn't like Polish people. Because as we all know there's absolutely no history of the Nazis having bad feelings towards the Poles.

ejmaztec · 14-06-2012 07:41PM

I thought it was a site for militant meteorologists with a grudge.

Halloran springs · 14-06-2012 07:42PM

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Do you really want to know the reasons why the White Nationalist Movement exists, or did you just start this thread to show everybody how "progressive and liberal" you are?

I can educate you, but I'll have to do it via PM. Boards.ie apparently doesn't allow freedom of speech.

Oh come on, I'll give you a medal if you can even remotely justify opinions such as "that n****r-loving b***h deserved to die" etc

IrishAm · 14-06-2012 07:42PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

so people more readily associate "White and proud" with the Nazi/KKK group while they tend to associate "Black and Proud" with Shaft.

No. You do. As you haven't a notion of what you are talking about.

How many American cities have you lived in?

SMASH THE UNIONS · 14-06-2012 07:46PM

Halloran springs wrote: »

Oh come on, I'll give you a medal if you can even remotely justify opinions such as "that n****r-loving b***h deserved to die" etc

Ok, let's reverse the tables. Why do you think some whites dislike blacks? And you'll have to do better than "cos they're idiots".

The King of Moo · 14-06-2012 07:46PM

IrishAm wrote: »

Yes. And slogans such as "Black and Proud" are associated with peace loving groups such as the Black Panthers and militant Black Nationalists who claim that raping white women is legitimate action to take out as revenge against the white man.

Why would you deliberately choose only to mention the less popular groups the slogan is associated with, and the most extreme negative aspects of them?
I find that really strange.

I don't see why you don't mention the general conceptual link between the slogan and the Civil Rights movement.

I really don't see why you fail to mention the James Brown song "Say it Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud," which popularised the slogan. Perhaps because, as an anti-discrimination funk song, it's a peaceful, inclusive way to combat discrimination.

It's almost as though you have an agenda.

IrishAm · 14-06-2012 07:50PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Why would you deliberately choose only to mention the less popular groups the slogan is associated with, and the most extreme negative aspects of them?

By extreme negative aspects, do you mean modern associations?

Irish Guitarist · 14-06-2012 07:51PM

There's a thread about Jimi Hendrix that has comments that are so ridiculous they're hilarious. One member even blames Jimi Hendrix for his relationship with his father going sour.

While great, I do feel that his skill (specifically) is overblown. The Watchtower is the only song I like by him ...

And he stole that from a Jew. :cool:

Hendrix rocked, but he must be treated as an negro entertainer only. If he wasn't a halfbreed, derelict, racemixer, I would respect him, as I do BB King, Dianna Ross, and a few of the other classic black entertainers.

I spent much time, and money to learn to play his songs. And I'm sure it cost me weeks of quality time with my Father also. Although I still listen to him, being a WN, I wish I had my money back. And my Father.

I should have spent my time more wisely.

The King of Moo · 14-06-2012 07:52PM

IrishAm wrote: »

By extreme negative aspects, do you mean modern associations?

No, I mean the things like calls for murder and rape you mentioned.

There are no culturally prominent or politically influential modern black nationalist movements.

christmas2012 · 14-06-2012 07:55PM

Just had a look at it there cos i wasnt sure what it was yeah big time bigots on it,i wouldnt be suprised if theres trolling

af_thefragile · 14-06-2012 07:55PM

IrishAm wrote: »

No. You do. As you haven't a notion of what you are talking about.

How many American cities have you lived in?

It depends from place to place and the context it is used in. Some people use it to feel good about who they are. Some use it as a proclamation of the superiority of their race over others.

You can't deny there has been a long history of oppression of black people in the West. From slavery, though eugenics, KKK lynching, Nazi ideology and then modern neo-Nazis. The black extremists were a direct reaction to the actions of the white extremists.

Again depends from place to place. Here in Ireland most people will instantly recognise a Nazi symbol and "white and proud" slogan to be consistent with White supremacy while one wouldn't think such strongly of "black and proud" slogan no matter what the person's ideology is, who proclaimed it.

In some parts of USA it would be different, there are black supremacist gangs, white neo-nazi gangs, mexican gangs and they all have their own slogans. Most such gangs operate as a reaction to the rival gangs. Its reminiscent of ancient tribes fighting among themselves over small disputes because they lacked the intellectual capabilities to look beyond their physical differences and try to solve disputes in a civil manner.

Pedant · 14-06-2012 08:06PM

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Do you really want to know the reasons why the White Nationalist Movement exists, or did you just start this thread to show everybody how "progressive and liberal" you are?

I can educate you, but I'll have to do it via PM. Boards.ie apparently doesn't allow freedom of speech.

They exist fundamentally because there are xenophobic people in the world.

White Nationalists justify themselves by saying that there's a mass Jewish conspiracy that wants to unleash a "genocide" on the white race by encouraging interbreeding with different races, open borders and multiculturalism. They also believe that the Holocaust was made up lie by Jews to make the world have sympathy on the Jewish race and to forward support in the international community for the establishment of the Zionist State of Israel. White Nationalists also argue that there's an apparent "cultural Marxist" conspiracy that wants to destroy European culture by promoting social progressivism, etc...

I don't think you wish to refrain from posting openly on here because you're afraid of getting banned, rather I think you're afraid of making yourself look stupid and having to engage in critical debate.

Ellis Dee · 14-06-2012 08:10PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

They're just stupid.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people. The thread on the case here contained a few posts that would've fitted in pretty well on Stormfront, sadly.

I agree with you, but please don't make the mistake of believing that the people behind Stormfront are stupid.:cool:

The people who believe everything they see on Stormfront and who post their crude and hateful messages on it are mindless and nasty thugs, but the people who are running the site and pulling the strings at the very top are far from stupid. They are very intelligent and very adept at playing on people's baser instincts, planting doubts in their minds and even - when it suits them - quoting (out of context of course) people like Noam Chomsky, who is I believe Jewish. They know how to use clever arguments by even those fiercely opposed to them, but also how to morph those same arguments to create their own distorted message.:rolleyes:

The forces behind Stormfront are clever rather than stupid. And that is what makes them so very dangerous.:eek::eek:

SMASH THE UNIONS · 14-06-2012 08:13PM

Pedant wrote: »

I don't think you wish to refrain from posting openly on here because you're afraid of getting banned, rather I think you're afraid of making yourself look stupid and having to engage in critical debate.

Your presumptions are wrong. I'm an ardent supporter of Israel and the plight of the persecuted Jewish people. Check my past posting history. They have made an astonishing contribution to mankind for their small size, and for this they should be applauded. It's the far-left section of boards who spout this Jewish conspiracy nonsense - see yesterday's thread on TD Alan Shatter's alledged alleagiance to Israel in the Politics forum. Some ridiculous posts in there.

I'm not professing my own views here, but if you really want to understand why the White Nationalist movement was formed, I can educate you. Nothing to do with the Jews, despite what a few skin head screwballs think.

The King of Moo · 14-06-2012 08:17PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I agree with you, but please don't make the mistake of believing that the people behind Stormfront are stupid.:cool:

The people who believe everything they see on Stormfront and who post their crude and hateful messages on it are mindless and nasty thugs, but the people who are running the site and pulling the strings at the very top are far from stupid. They are very intelligent and very adept at playing on people's baser instincts, planting doubts in their minds and even - when it suits them - quoting (out of context of course) people like Noam Chomsky, who is I believe Jewish. They know how to use clever arguments by even those fiercely opposed to them, but also how to morph those same arguments to create their own distorted message.:rolleyes:

The forces behind Stormfront are clever rather than stupid. And that is what makes them so very dangerous.:eek::eek:

You're absolutely right, I was referring more to the average stormfront user.

It's frightening and counter-intuitive that so many hateful people can also be quite intelligent, enough so that they know how to be careful about what they say in order to be as persuasive as possible, and to avoid saying stuff that they'd get shot down for.

It's easy to assume that all racists are stupid, but sadly that's not the case.

Terry · 14-06-2012 08:24PM

No to the OP, but the potential is there.
It's the internet. You could always pretend to be a half Black, half Irish Jew with a Mexican passport.
I'm not suggesting you do that, or that you troll that site. I'm just saying that you could.

IrishAm wrote: »

Is a barber shop in Dublin called Black and Proud considered racist?

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1111/photo0071j.jpg

I wouldn't consider it racist, but I would propose that it does incite hatred in a country whose vast majority consists of White people.

Now this "White and Proud" thing had already been addressed in this thread ( and thousands more), but I'd like to say that making the statement that you are "White and Proud" in a mostly white country would land you in a lot of trouble.
You would be classed as a racist, even if you did not believe that having White skin made you superior to people with other skin colours.

Go to any African country and put up a "White and Proud" sign, and see how long you last.
Actually, go to Birmingham in either England or Alabama U.S. and see how long you last.

There is a double standard.
The treatment of Black people by European conquerors over the past 700 or so years has been atrocious, so you can see why Black people in countries where they have been oppressed could now stand up and proclaim that they are proud of the colour of their skin.

However, I don't see why this would be done in Ireland.
The Irish slaves in the Caribbean were cheapen than the African slaves. If the African slaves tried to escape or revolt, an Irish slave was murdered or tortured as an example to the African slaves.
That's why I find the sign in that picture offensive.

Put it up in England, France, The Netherlands, Spain or Portugal and I wouldn't give a flying ****.
Don't bring your "Poor me. I'm Black and my people were treated like shít by White Europeans" crap to this country.
We were treated like shít too.

If you think we were involved in the enslavement of Africans, then you really need to read into history.

Before some pedant points out that Irish people were involved, those who were had allied themselves with the English, had allied themselves with the Church of England (which actually mattered back then) or were descendants of Protestant planters.

My name is URL wrote: »

Big difference between that and proclaiming your hatred of other races. There's nothing inherently wrong with being proud of your skin color, apart from it being illogical and stupid as fcuk. It's not a million miles away from feeling proud to be ginger, or from Mayo. It's not really racist unless that pride manifests itself as a hatred of others.

I'm Ginger and my family name originated in Mayo.
I hate everyone else.

dr.bollocko · 14-06-2012 08:27PM

Let's not even give those hate-filled loons the oxygen of publicity.

Is storm front a troll site ?

Comments