'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

AVN_1 · 06-06-2012 11:54PM #1

Should we go Swiss?

'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

A survey has found that the Swiss are even less in favour of joining the EU than they were last year.

The survey, carried out by the MIS Research Institute in Lausanne, has found that 82 percent of Swiss people are against accession talks with the EU, preferring instead to remain with the current bilateral treaty arrangements, newspaper Tages Anzeiger reported. This figure is up from 72 percent last year.

http://www.thelocal.ch/3386/20120524/

charlemont · 07-06-2012 12:02AM

Should we go Swiss?

Ireland and Switzerland are two countries that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Bullseye1 · 07-06-2012 12:07AM

Why is that? Have you a superior complex or inferior complex?

AVN_1 · 07-06-2012 12:09AM

charlemont wrote: »

Ireland and Switzerland are two countries that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Any arguments to support your view?

kirving · 07-06-2012 12:10AM

charlemont wrote: »

Ireland and Switzerland are two countries that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Switzerland should give Ireland €100bn tomorrow. There, I did it.

charlemont · 07-06-2012 12:18AM

AVN_1 wrote: »

Any arguments to support your view?

Yes I sure have, Big difference in our countries, One does not become like Switzerland overnight. How broke are the Swiss today ? Switzerland;A nation run like clockwork. Ireland;A nation run like, um' well not like Switzerland anyway.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Why is that? Have you a superior complex or inferior complex?

Well What a question that is.. A stupid question deserves a stupid answer.

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Switzerland should give Ireland €100bn tomorrow. There, I did it.

We'd still squander it, It would be like throwing good money after bad.

AVN_1 · 07-06-2012 12:28AM

charlemont wrote: »

Yes I sure have, Big difference in our countries, One does not become like Switzerland overnight. How broke are the Swiss today ? Switzerland;A nation run like clockwork. Ireland;A nation run like, um' well not like Switzerland anyway.

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

Paparazzo · 07-06-2012 12:32AM

Has to be said :

After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

humanji · 07-06-2012 01:18PM

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

We're not broke because we joined the Euro. We're broke in spite of it.

AVN_1 · 07-06-2012 02:38PM

humanji wrote: »

We're not broke because we joined the Euro. We're broke in spite of it.

We were in a very good financial and economic shape before joining the Euro, and look where we're now...

Euro is the main problem for a number of countries, including ours.

humanji · 07-06-2012 03:59PM

Correlation does not imply causation. It's not the Euro that's the problem, it's the utter mismanagement by governments and financial institutions. Leaving the Euro isn't suddenly going to end our problems. We'll still have massive debts.

stringed theory · 07-06-2012 06:30PM

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

I see absolutely no logic here; it's not even an argument, just some kind of catharsis from a europhobe.
Regarding Switzerland, imagine an Ireland where all the multinational companies here are in fact Irish owned, and the fruit of Irish research and development, and our GDP is the same as our GNP, and we're getting close.

KINGVictor · 07-06-2012 08:25PM

humanji wrote: »

Correlation does not imply causation. It's not the Euro that's the problem, it's the utter mismanagement by governments and financial institutions. Leaving the Euro isn't suddenly going to end our problems. We'll still have massive debts.

Totally agree with you that the Euro is not the cause of the current crisis; absolutely not. But it's introduction in structurally different economies without a solid framework hugely contributed to the economic problems in the Eurozone. At it's inception, the Euro meant diferent things to different countries; France saw it as a vehicle for achieving European political deepening, Germany saw it as a some sort of redemption, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland and other strong economies viewed it as a way of improving their competitiveness. Southern Europe saw it as some sort of attachment to a new economic order that will displace the dollar as the strongest currency and an avenue to benefit from the positive externalities of such a powerful monetary union. It was all a grand dream; but there was an accute failure in laying the necessary foundations of an optimum currency area which paradoxically would have excluded a fourth of the initial members.

I know it has been said ad nauseum but the EZ put the cart before the horse before they adopted a common currency for very dissimilar economies, hence the dilemma they face today. What is good for Germany is hurting Greece and Spain, simply because these countries are structurally different. Germany does not want inflation so the Bundesbank will rather die than allow the ECB be a lender of last resort and pump money into the system. They allowed the ECB to buy sovereign bonds for a while, the ECB embarked on quasi- quantitave easing via the LTROs and that has failed woefully because the banks simply bought soveriegn debts in an attempt to calm the markets instead of the original purpose which was to ease the credit crunch and provide loans to businesses/households.

I dont see this ending well because at the moment, the way the EU is dealing with the problem is a summit after another, one proposal after another. The most intriguing part of it is the lack of cohesion, brinkmanship and game playing. Events in Europe at the moment would form great examples for students of Game theory! France's Hollande makes a case for growth and the pooling of debt and he is supported by the US, UK and most G-7 nations, Germany's Merkel, brilliant woman she is, cleverly puts a spanner in the works by not only insisting on fiscal consolidation at all costs but advocating for a political union, a theory that would be unpopular in her own country, will be very divisive in the rest of Europe especially in a crisis situation and then the big weapon- she said she is open to a two-speed Europe. Genius!

The Euro as a currency isnt the problem but the politics around the creation and management has certainly and continues to be a major factor in the crisis.

paddyandy · 07-06-2012 08:33PM

We think like Sailors on shore leave that's why we're broke ...always .

CIE · 08-06-2012 08:14AM

AVN_1 wrote: »

Should we go Swiss?

'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

A survey has found that the Swiss are even less in favour of joining the EU than they were last year.

The survey, carried out by the MIS Research Institute in Lausanne, has found that 82 percent of Swiss people are against accession talks with the EU, preferring instead to remain with the current bilateral treaty arrangements, newspaper Tages Anzeiger reported. This figure is up from 72 percent last year.

http://www.thelocal.ch/3386/20120524/

Won't last forever, i.e. unless enough member states break away to stand with Switzerland. Their neighbour to the east already got them to break their neutrality stance. The architects of this new/old empire won't stand for the Schweiz to be outside it forever.

BKtje · 08-06-2012 10:22AM

The Swiss have always been a little EU sceptic and it really is no surprise that support has dwindled recently with the catastrophe that currently is the Euro. I would expect opinions to rebound when/if the majority of problems are sorted.

jmayo · 11-06-2012 10:30AM

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

Funny how some countries that joined the Euro aren't broke and also some countries that didn't join are broke.

The Corinthian · 11-06-2012 02:35PM

AVN_1 wrote: »

We're broke because we joined the Euro Zone. So, now is the right time to leave it and go Swiss.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous attempts at soapboxing that you can get on this topic, and one which is regularly trotted out without and shot down again and again. So...

Ireland is (almost) broke because we had a housing bubble that burst, leading many financial institutions that were heavily exposed in that market to go cap in hand for financial assistance from the government, which in turn had to go to the EU. Nothing more than that.

One could argue, with the benefit of hindsight, that had we still access to monetary tools we could have avoided this bubble, but in reality we already had fiscal tools to do this and instead did the opposite, such as removing taxes on property purchases. So membership of the Eurozone would have made no difference there either.

The Euro ultimately has no part in Ireland's economic plight, no more than it had in the Iceland's financial woes, which were produced without membership of either the Euro or the EU.

As to going 'Swiss', I suspect that those who call for this have absolutely no knowledge of Switzerland. Ignoring, for a moment, differences in both culture and politics, Switzerland is a heavily industrialized nation - Ireland is not. You can drive through even the smallest little villages there and find well established manufacturing industries (not simply one factory, but several) - in Ireland, you'll find call centers much of the time.

But even that ignores why Switzerland is so much better off to begin with, which is the banking industry. Prior to World War II, Switzerland was actually quite poor and it was only as a result of banking secrecy laws (ironically as a response to Nazi Germany paying Swiss officials for information on Jewish bank accounts) that they made their money.

So Ireland has neither Switzerland's (or Liechtenstein's) manufacturing industry or banking sector, nor do we have Norway's natural resources. We're a lot closer to Iceland, with limited resources and industry and highly dependent on the services sector.

But what gets me is that this is not the first such thread you've started, where all you do is throw a soundbite in, much like a hand grenade, and run. For anyone who cares to read your past posts, you've never actually backed up any of your outlandish claims, preferring instead to stick to some soapboxing and then starting a new thread when the old one has been ridiculed sufficiently.

bette · 11-06-2012 02:40PM

CIE wrote: »

Won't last forever, i.e. unless enough member states break away to stand with Switzerland. Their neighbour to the east already got them to break their neutrality stance. The architects of this new/old empire won't stand for the Schweiz to be outside it forever.

Switzerland has been happily plodding along since 1291.

The Corinthian · 11-06-2012 03:00PM

bette wrote: »

Switzerland has been happily plodding along since 1291.

It's been lucky.

If you want to read up on how Switzerland has fared when she was surrounded by a single dominant power in western Europe, feel free to look up Helvetic Republic or Operation Tannenbaum.

In both cases the only reason that it was able to 'plod along' was luck.

bette · 11-06-2012 03:18PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

It's been lucky.

If you want to read up on how Switzerland has fared when she was surrounded by a single dominant power in western Europe, feel free to look up Helvetic Republic or Operation Tannenbaum.

In both cases the only reason that it was able to 'plod along' was luck.

Really? Good man yourself. I know a bit about their history as well. Look up how they managed during the war years. Check out the history of the Migros! There's lots of luck there.

Then the Battle of Morgarten was also graced with good luck.

The luck of the Swiss - even better than the luck of the Irish!

The Corinthian · 11-06-2012 03:38PM

bette wrote: »

Look up how they managed during the war years.

That was my point; they were lucky. Switzerland was not a priority for Germany, but had Germany won, Switzerland would have been invaded successfully - a fact that even the Swiss were aware of.

Check out the history of the Migros! There's lots of luck there.

What has Migros got to do with Swiss independence?

Then the Battle of Morgarten was also graced with good luck.

And a battle in 1315 debunks the reality that Swiss independence been down to luck ever since? Most of their wars of 'independence' have actually been against each other!

The luck of the Swiss - even better than the luck of the Irish!

That Switzerland retained independence has been largely down to luck. That Switzerland has been prosperous has been largely down to hard work.

Gunmonkey · 15-06-2012 05:09PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Has to be said :

After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

Toblerones?

Chuck Stone · 15-06-2012 05:42PM

Very different countries with very different people. I went for a walk with my then GF in Switzerland and couldn't help but laugh at how they had 'rationalized' the local woods. They had an exercise and stretching plan laid out along the trail on little wooden signs - I kid you not.

BKtje · 16-06-2012 07:17PM

Most communes seem to have a trail or two, I think they are fantastic!. With mandatory military servive (or similar) they try to aid their army aged population in staying relatively fit (at least the males, females dont have mandatory service).

Chuck Stone · 16-06-2012 07:59PM

BKtje wrote: »

Most communes seem to have a trail or two, I think they are fantastic!.

Each to their own. I guess I was laughing because it was so different to what you'd get here. My German GF was even surprised at the some of the by-laws and general sense of order there.

With mandatory military servive (or similar) they try to aid their army aged population in staying relatively fit (at least the males, females dont have mandatory service).

You can own and carry an assault rifle if you've been in the army isn't it? For the defence of the country or something along those lines.

The Corinthian · 16-06-2012 09:54PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

My German GF was even surprised at the some of the by-laws and general sense of order there.

Why should your German GF not be perplexed - at least no more than any other non-Swiss? Switzerland is not Germany and the Swiss are absolutely nothing like the Germans, something that many Germans you find in Switzerland tend to forget until they actually stay there for a while.

It reminds me of a dinner party I was at in Zurich a few years back; my German GF was explaining to one of the Swiss guests how Dublin was full of Poles, as it was a very popular destination for them for jobs. He smiled and said "we have something similar here, but we call them Germans".

Chuck Stone · 16-06-2012 11:27PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Why should your German GF not be perplexed - at least no more than any other non-Swiss? Switzerland is not Germany and the Swiss are absolutely nothing like the Germans, something that many Germans you find in Switzerland tend to forget until they actually stay there for a while.

You've picked me up wrong. I'm fully aware that the Swiss are about as German as the Irish are English - apparently the Swiss will even say 'We're not European - we're Swiss'.

I just found it amusing that a person of a country renowned for fairly strict adherence to societal norms i.e. a German was bemused by the Swiss.

The Corinthian · 17-06-2012 08:08AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You've picked me up wrong. I'm fully aware that the Swiss are about as German as the Irish are English - apparently the Swiss will even say 'We're not European - we're Swiss'.

Aye, I did, sorry. You won't get many Swiss who would deny being European though, outside of some of the more inbred members of the SVP - you'll get the same in Ireland from time to time.

I just found it amusing that a person of a country renowned for fairly strict adherence to societal norms i.e. a German was bemused by the Swiss.

Renowned, yes, but as with most national stereotypes often inaccurate, as is their reputation for Germanic competence; a little experience with Deutsche Telekom will dispel that one quick enough.

But yes, the Swiss can be a bit, ahem, odd.

sarumite · 17-06-2012 09:17AM

The Swiss economy is based on a banking model that is less compatible with the EU. Our economy is based on exporting to our goods and services to other countries which is enhanced by our membership of the EU.

BKtje · 17-06-2012 12:37PM

You can own and carry an assault rifle if you've been in the army isn't it? For the defence of the country or something along those lines.

As far as I'm aware they are allowed to bring their weapons home for storage but they are not to be taken out unless going to/from the barracks or during an invasion of course. They are not allowed to bring home ammunition however so am not sure how useful it is, at least officially.

'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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