Overstepping the parking lines?

cormie · 10-06-2012 07:33PM #1

Got a call about my neighbour which you can read and see pictures of here :rolleyes: but just wondering what's the legal standpoint on a situation where you park well within the limits of a pay and display area, but part of your vehicle, although not touching the actual road, is still over the perimeter of the marked area?

Also what about a situation where say your back wheels ARE outside the area but front wheels inside, yet the back of the vehicle isn't causing an obstruction to anything and not parked on double yellow lines?

yoppo · 10-06-2012 08:45PM

Ok, your arse is sticking out but she is being pedantic.... Your are blocking it in no way to be fair. I really doubt the county council or whoever enforces the P&D would ever put a ticket on your van (but I am open to correction)....
As for her ringing you at 1am... that's not on!

Stark · 10-06-2012 08:57PM

yoppo wrote: »

Ok, your arse is sticking out but she is being pedantic.... Your are blocking it in no way to be fair. I really doubt the county council or whoever enforces the P&D would ever put a ticket on your van (but I am open to correction)....

Now if it was Anan1 and his band of merry clampers...

copacetic · 10-06-2012 09:02PM

The lines indicate where your vehicle should be, not that if you can get your wheels in then you are grand. So bad parking, particularly when its a van blocking peoples view altogether, but hardly crime of century.

mb1725 · 10-06-2012 09:34PM

You're blocking the line of sight not the access. Could make it difficult when coming out if it is a fast road.

Marcusm · 10-06-2012 09:49PM

In the UK there have been cases on what is permitted under their laws and the decision of the judge has favoured wheels within the lines, the overhang is irrelevant. Here it would be a district court matter so who knows. CEOs (formal name for UK traffic wardens) know not to ticket in situations like this.

Personally I'm impressed that you were considerate enough to park right at the back of the space (thereby maximising the number of cars who can park) and that you're so far in from the road.

You should pat yourself on the back.

Marcusm · 10-06-2012 09:51PM

mb1725 wrote: »

You're blocking the line of sight not the access. Could make it difficult when coming out if it is a fast road.

That's a matter for the council in considering where to place the parking spaces. If he was driving a Transit, the issue would be bigger but still can't see how he's contravened anything nor parked obnoxiously.

Anan1 · 10-06-2012 09:53PM

cormie wrote: »

Got a call about my neighbour which you can read and see pictures of here :rolleyes: but just wondering what's the legal standpoint on a situation where you park well within the limits of a pay and display area, but part of your vehicle, although not touching the actual road, is still over the perimeter of the marked area?

Also what about a situation where say your back wheels ARE outside the area but front wheels inside, yet the back of the vehicle isn't causing an obstruction to anything and not parked on double yellow lines?

I'm fairly sure the entire car has to be within the bay so, yeah, it is parked illegally. It is a narrow road and it's hard enough to see coming out there anyway, so you were further blocking her view. On the other hand, it's very marginal and it's up to dlrcoco/the Gardaí, and not the neighbour, to enforce the law. On balance, I just wouldn't give her any more excuses to call you.

@ Stark - That's not your most reasoned of arguments, is it?;)

looksee · 10-06-2012 09:55PM

People park like that outside the entrance to where I work, so to get round them (turning left and they are on the left) you have to dive out into the traffic and go right across to the other lane to be sure and clear the back end of the vehicle. There is a bus stop on the other side so you are trying to clear the vehicle, look out for stuff coming round the bus and hope that the traffic on the other side is well over to their left.

cormie · 10-06-2012 11:53PM

I wouldn't exactly call it bad parking. I intentionally park as close to the lines as possible to maximise the amount of cars who can get a space while ensuring I'm not causing any obstruction.

Was my parking causing any obstruction for vehicles entering or exiting the car park? No
Was my parking allowing the maximum amount of cars to park in the area? Yes
Were any of my vehicles ever fined for parking with an overhang before? No
Is there an allowance in law for a slight overhang if no obstruction is caused? Possibly

Anan, you sound like you know the area? I wouldn't call it a narrow road at all. There's another car park entrance directly across the road so there is plenty of room to manoeuvre as there'll never be a car parked directly across from either entrance. Also, it's an opel astra, parked with a 300mm overhang, if I parked my Transit luton 5mm within the space, it would be more difficult to see up the road, but no more difficult than many situations motorists will face on the road.

It'd be interesting to actually know how the law stands on this, but it's probably not covered?

Nissan doctor · 11-06-2012 12:01AM

In the case of the OP, those pics show the depth of the rear bumper beyond the line, approx a foot and a half, or approx 45cm. I don't know what the legalities are but anyone who finds that this blocks their view, or makes it measurably more difficult to pull out/in or whatever needs to re-take their driving test and as for the person who called the OP....well I can just imagine the busybody/empty life/living alone type who would deem it their duty to call and complain about such a non issue.

I mean seriously, have people nothing more important to be worrying about?

Anan1 · 11-06-2012 12:28AM

cormie wrote: »

I wouldn't exactly call it bad parking. I intentionally park as close to the lines as possible to maximise the amount of cars who can get a space while ensuring I'm not causing any obstruction.

Was my parking causing any obstruction for vehicles entering or exiting the car park? No
Was my parking allowing the maximum amount of cars to park in the area? Yes
Were any of my vehicles ever fined for parking with an overhang before? No
Is there an allowance in law for a slight overhang if no obstruction is caused? Possibly

Anan, you sound like you know the area? I wouldn't call it a narrow road at all. There's another car park entrance directly across the road so there is plenty of room to manoeuvre as there'll never be a car parked directly across from either entrance. Also, it's an opel astra, parked with a 300mm overhang, if I parked my Transit luton 5mm within the space, it would be more difficult to see up the road, but no more difficult than many situations motorists will face on the road.

It'd be interesting to actually know how the law stands on this, but it's probably not covered?

That's Mellifont Avenue, isn't it? Honestly, I think you're taking this way too personally. You broke the rules a little bit and a local busybody got on your case about it - personally, i'd just park the van in the space in future and forget about it. It's easy to get wound up about the perceived injustice of it, but that woman is your neighbour, Dún Laoghaire's a small town, and the van is an ad for your work.

johnayo · 11-06-2012 12:47AM

Anan1 wrote: »

That's Mellifont Avenue, isn't it? Honestly, I think you're taking this way too personally. You broke the rules a little bit and a local busybody got on your case about it - personally, i'd just park the van in the space in future and forget about it. It's easy to get wound up about the perceived injustice of it, but that woman is your neighbour, Dún Laoghaire's a small town, and the van is an ad for your work.

Or maybe park across the gate for an hour some evening.;)

Anan1 · 11-06-2012 12:59AM

johnayo wrote: »

Or maybe park across the gate for an hour some evening.;)

That's an apartment block, and the Garda station's only a couple of hundred yards up the road. It's a big one, they've a court and all.

cormie · 11-06-2012 01:22AM

Yeah, that's right Anan1

I'm not fussed at all over it to be honest, I just couldn't believe it when I saw it and was curious about the actual law in relation to it and if she had of stopped a warden and demanded they fine me, would they be able to and also curious as to the situation with parking beyond the line, but not on a double yellow or causing any obstruction

Anan1 · 11-06-2012 01:51AM

cormie wrote: »

Yeah, that's right Anan1 I'm not fussed at all over it to be honest, I just couldn't believe it when I saw it and was curious about the actual law in relation to it and if she had of stopped a warden and demanded they fine me, would they be able to and also curious as to the situation with parking beyond the line, but not on a double yellow or causing any obstruction

I had a bit of a google for you, have a look at part II 6 a here, bottom of page 11: http://www.dlrcoco.ie/media/media,4283,en.pdf

So yes the warden could ticket you, although I don't know that she'd have any right to demand it.

corktina · 11-06-2012 08:25AM

it seems a little trivial, but what if he were overhanging the bay into another bay? i suspect hat would be Obnoxious in the Boards Motors sense

Anan1 · 11-06-2012 08:49AM

corktina wrote: »

it seems a little trivial, but what if he were overhanging the bay into another bay? i suspect hat would be Obnoxious in the Boards Motors sense

In Dún Laoghaire? Have a look at II 6 e, page 12 of the link I posted. Interestingly enough, 'a person shall not overhaul or carry out repairs to a vehicle while it is parked in a pay parking place, save where it is
necessary in order to enable the vehicle to be removed
from the pay parking place' either.

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-06-2012 10:01AM

Well, going back to the good ole' RSA it would seem that

Where a parking bay is marked out on a road you must park your vehicle fully within the parking space.

So technically it's not best practice, but I don't know about getting a ticket for it.
In any case the woman who complained is obviously a sad bint who needs to spread her own misery around to get over her own feeling of worthlessness.
Because as far as parking goes I wouldn't even look twice at your example, it wouldn't even enter my head to complain about it.

Stark · 11-06-2012 11:16AM

Is the space actually big enough for the entire van?

cormie · 11-06-2012 11:22AM

Anan1 wrote: »

I had a bit of a google for you, have a look at part II 6 a here, bottom of page 11: http://www.dlrcoco.ie/media/media,4283,en.pdf

So yes the warden could ticket you, although I don't know that she'd have any right to demand it.

I can't see anything about an overhang mentioned really though?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Where a parking bay is marked out on a road you must park your vehicle fully within the parking space.

But what is fully, fully could be seen as both wheels within the lines as it was in the case pointed out above in the UK, or it could be seen as no allowance on an overhange, it's not really stated.

Stark wrote: »

Is the space actually big enough for the entire van?

Ah yeah, the space is enough for about 6 cars if the cars are parked with consideration for other parkers

copacetic · 11-06-2012 11:32AM

cormie wrote: »

I can't see anything about an overhang mentioned really though?

But what is fully, fully could be seen as both wheels within the lines as it was in the case pointed out above in the UK, or it could be seen as no allowance on an overhange, it's not really stated.

Ah yeah, the space is enough for about 6 cars if the cars are parked with consideration for other parkers

Ah now Cormie, fully means fully, not get your wheels in and your grand, by that logic a massive van with a massive overhang, could just get its wheels in and have an 4 foot overhang into other spaces or blocking people in but its ok?

The PDF quoted above seems clear also.

a person shall not park or cause to be parked in a pay parking place a vehicle in such a position that it, or any portion of it, extends from one parking place to another;

Imo, the person who called has little enough to be worried about but may have been getting annoyed over months and months about what they see as inconsiderate and poor parking.

Anan1 · 11-06-2012 11:36AM

cormie wrote: »

I can't see anything about an overhang mentioned really though?

a vehicle which is parked in a ticket parking place during operational hours shall, where parking bays are provided at that ticket parking place, be parked within the area comprising a parking bay - I don't see any wiggle room there.

cormie · 11-06-2012 11:47AM

Ahh

I think this is the definitive line here:

a person shall not park or cause to be parked in a pay parking place a vehicle in such a position that it, or any portion of it, extends from one parking place to another;

Is that just from the DLRCOCO by-laws or state legislation too?

I wonder could it be argued that a double yellow area can't be classified as "another" parking place so it's therefore ok? :pac:

the person who called has little enough to be worried about but may have been getting annoyed over months and months about what they see as inconsiderate and poor parking.

If she's just being pedantic in that she happens to know the above quoted line of the law, fair enough, but honestly, there's absolutely no obstruction caused by the little overhang and I think she's just complaining for the sake of it, or else a terrible driver

Anan1 · 11-06-2012 12:10PM

cormie wrote: »

Is that just from the DLRCOCO by-laws or state legislation too?

No idea, I just gave it a quick google. If it's really burning you up then i'd just ask the next warden you see - they'll tell you straight off both what the law is and how strict they are on enforcement. Although with your business name plastered all over the van i'd just park it completely within the space. As I said right back at the beginning, that van is an advertisment - you want to give off the impression of being a bit of a perfectionist.

cormie · 11-06-2012 12:22PM

Well let's just hope at least one person was able to parallel park into a tight spot because I was that little bit further back and said to themselves, wow, if it wasn't for that considerate fellow in VanTasks, I'd never have fit into that space, I'll be sure to call them when I need to move

I genuinely and knowingly parked a little back due to the fact no obstruction was caused and it may allow a little more room up the bay

The wardens, although absolutely ruthless with non ticket offenders (seeing as though there's usually 4 of them within a 500m radius, daily), have never ticketed me for doing it on any vehicle. I make sure not to cause an obstruction and I think they see this too.

BigEejit · 11-06-2012 03:20PM

If I were you OP i would just try and make sure that you are fully within the lines, then the woman who rang at 1am (the mind boggles) can go fup herself.

Overstepping the parking lines?

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