Was Michelle de Bruin our greatest Olympian? Eamonn Coughlan says yes

Pherekydes · 10-06-2012 04:58PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

There was that unfortunate incident, which had nothing to do with the Olympics or any other competition, since it was the result of a surprise inspection of her at home, but she was checked, double-checked, treble-checked at the Olympics - probably more than any other swimmer there, because the Americans, especially, were really loud in their accusations - and nothing was found. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Starobelgrade: Of course you wouldn't ride her. You'll only ever get to ride women that are in your own league - and she's way, way, way out of it. Try and have a nice **** as a consolation prize, though. :)

As the only Irish person ever to win three Olympic golds - and they were not taken away from her despite probably the most vicious campaign of defamation against a successful athlete that the Olympics have ever seen - she is undeniably our greatest Olympian to date. :D:D

Good defence of the woman.

John Flanagan won the Hammer 3 straight times, albeit in the colours of the USA.

Martin Sheridan, also competing for the USA, won FIVE golds, 3 silvers and a bronze (including the 1906 Intercalated Games).

Pat O'Callaghan won the Hammer twice.

These guys would top my list of Ireland's greatest olympians.

Nodin · 10-06-2012 05:07PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

There was that unfortunate incident, which had nothing to do with the Olympics or any other competition, since it was the result of a surprise inspection of her at home, but she was checked, double-checked, treble-checked at the Olympics - probably more than any other swimmer there, because the Americans, especially, were really loud in their accusations - and nothing was found. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

........

Emm.....

He used a falsified accreditation badge of a Belgian official to gain entry into the doping control area. In the anti-doping area, Erik proceeded to mark up Michelle's doping control form with comments regarding the sloppiness of the control procedures in Dutch.[2][3] It was reported that in 1996 and 1997, the International Swimming Federation (FINA) had concerns about Smith's repeated unavailability for random out-of-competition testing. Her submitted training schedule was left totally blank, apart from her name and nationality, making it difficult to predict her movements. It has been suggested that Smith's behaviour during this period is wholly consistent with the typical behaviour of others who have subsequently been found guilty of drug taking offences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Smith

Pherekydes · 10-06-2012 05:19PM

That's why WADA introduced the "whereabouts" rule.

But to jump from not finding an athlete to assuming doping is a logical leap too far.

Red21 · 10-06-2012 05:37PM

She went to the 1988 aged 19 and failed to make the semi-finals (top 16) at these games she was praised for her meticulous preparation, both herself and the irish team said they had left no stone unturned and they were happy with the performance.
As she was only 19 a person might think that maybe there is a chance for her at the next games but thats not generally how womens swimming works, certainly there would be scope for improvement but it would be highly unlikely that she would ever get into a final let alone win a medal, Janet Evans also went to these games aged 17 and won 3 gold medals.
For the next few years, Smith trained just as hard as the other swimmers she also availed of all the professional coaching that they had yet as was expected she didn't improve on her world ranking if anything she went slightly back when compared to the other swimmers.
The question is simple yet she has never given a proper answer.
What training did you do after 92 that you hadn't done before 92 that took you from being a complete outsider to being able dominate world swimming.

opinion guy · 10-06-2012 05:42PM

Red21 wrote: »

She went to the 1988 aged 19 and failed to make the semi-finals (top 16) at these games she was praised for her meticulous preparation, both herself and the irish team said they had left no stone unturned and they were happy with the performance.
As she was only 19 a person might think that maybe there is a chance for her at the next games but thats not generally how womens swimming works, certainly there would be scope for improvement but it would be highly unlikely that she would ever get into a final let alone win a medal, Janet Evans also went to these games aged 17 and won 3 gold medals.
For the next few years, Smith trained just as hard as the other swimmers she also availed of all the professional coaching that they had yet as was expected she didn't improve on her world ranking if anything she went slightly back when compared to the other swimmers.
The question is simple yet she has never given a proper answer.
What training did you do after 92 that you hadn't done before 92 that took you from being a complete outsider to being able dominate world swimming.

Didn't Erik de Bruin claim he had secret training techniques he didn't want to give away ?
Or something like that ?

The Aussie · 10-06-2012 05:51PM

Red21 wrote: »

The question is simple yet she has never given a proper answer.
What training did you do after 92 that you hadn't done before 92 that took you from being a complete outsider to being able dominate world swimming.

Can i have a crack at the answer.

D-R-U-G-S

which equates to

C-H-E-A-T

Now if thats the type of person anyone wants to idolize.
It speaks volumes, so idolize away...

The Aussie · 10-06-2012 05:56PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

she was checked, double-checked, treble-checked at the Olympics - probably more than any other swimmer there, because the Americans, especially, were really loud in their accusations - and nothing was found. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

i wil put this up again, simply because i dont get tired of it, But...
So did Marion Jones, yet another cheat, it seems we have a sister hood of cheats.

Red21 · 10-06-2012 05:56PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Didn't Erik de Bruin claim he had secret training techniques he didn't want to give away ?
Or something like that ?

I can't remember Erik ever being interviewed by a newspaper or television, I can remember Michelle giving press conferances and when asked about her training, her answers were very cleverly and professionally delivered they were hopeless in explaining how she actually did it. She treated the irish public like they were complete fools saying things like " we started using heavier weights".

opinion guy · 10-06-2012 06:20PM

Red21 wrote: »

I can't remember Erik ever being interviewed by a newspaper or television, I can remember Michelle giving press conferances and when asked about her training, her answers were very cleverly and professionally delivered they were hopeless in explaining how she actually did it. She treated the irish public like they were complete fools saying things like " we started using heavier weights".

Well to be fair here - its not impossible that to have training breakthrough. It does happen. Bode Miller case in point with his comeback to competitive skiing. I've read interviews of him talk about his revamped training methods and whilst he wasn't giving it all away, the bits he did give away made sense.

mathepac · 10-06-2012 06:47PM

Mars Bar wrote: »

... I believe Katie Taylor will become the Irish Olympian Queen.

I believe Katie Taylor is our supreme athlete and I don't believe her record will ever be equalled by another Irish amateur athlete

Katie faces an enormous challenge at the Olympics as she will be boxing in a weight category above that which she is classified for other competitions i.e. 64kg, where she will meet women who are heavier / stronger than her usual opponents.

I believe she can win a medal and unfortunately as boxers only box in a single competition, I doubt if she'll still be boxing in eight years time, which she'd have to do to emulate Michelle's untarnished achievements, but she could not emulate her at a single Olympics

The other notable Irish performer at Michelle's Olympics was commentator Gary O'Toole who kept trotting out the 1-2-3 results and times in advance of the penultimate and ultimate races.

Michelle, Queen of the Olympics, Katie Empress of Sport.

Shelflife · 10-06-2012 08:26PM

What i couldnt understand at the time was how she tampered with the sample?

Is the sample not done in front of the tester? as in heres the bottle and i will now watch you pee into it?

Otherwise you could just go into your bathroom take out a preprepared sample and hand it over.

Personally I think that she was as clean as the rest of the swimmers that she was competeing with at the time.

micropig · 10-06-2012 08:33PM

Rosanna Davidson would give her a run for her money:pac::pac:

Jimoslimos · 10-06-2012 08:50PM

mathepac wrote: »

I believe Katie Taylor is our supreme athlete and I don't believe her record will ever be equalled by another Irish amateur athlete

Katie faces an enormous challenge at the Olympics as she will be boxing in a weight category above that which she is classified for other competitions i.e. 64kg, where she will meet women who are heavier / stronger than her usual opponents.

I believe she can win a medal and unfortunately as boxers only box in a single competition, I doubt if she'll still be boxing in eight years time, which she'd have to do to emulate Michelle's untarnished achievements, but she could not emulate her at a single Olympics
.

Huh? She will probably have to beat ONE single competitor to win a medal, just three for gold. Hardly an enormous challenge.

I do agree however that it is much easier to win multiple medals in swimming. In fact I'd question why do we need events over the same distance in 4 different strokes. Usain Bolt doesn't compete in the 100m Backward Hopping

mathepac · 10-06-2012 09:04PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Huh? She will probably have to beat ONE single competitor to win a medal, just three for gold. Hardly an enormous challenge...

Probably being the key word - I don't know for sure, you don't know and neither does Katie. All she can do is compete against whatever number of opponents she is presented with, be that 3 or 33.

Pherekydes · 10-06-2012 09:06PM

mathepac wrote: »

Probably being the key word - I don't know for sure, you don't know and neither does Katie. All she can do is compete against whatever number of opponents she is presented with, be that 3 or 33.

We do know. She's seeded into the QF.

3ndahalfof6 · 10-06-2012 09:12PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Huh? She will probably have to beat ONE single competitor to win a medal, just three for gold. Hardly an enormous challenge.

I do agree however that it is much easier to win multiple medals in swimming. In fact I'd question why do we need events over the same distance in 4 different strokes. Usain Bolt doesn't compete in the 100m Backward Hopping

the fact she probably has spent most of her life training and being dedicated trying to excel is not an enormous challenge,

do you think she just woke up 6 months ago and said, jasus I think I will enter for the Olympics.

Motorist · 10-06-2012 09:17PM

Michelle Smyth is a disgrace. Her husband was a proven cheat. She tampered with a urine sample and no explanation was ever provided by Smith. She also had a habit of not being available for random out-of-competition testing.

It's fitting that she's now a lawyer. She's a disgrace to her country and has tarnished it's reputation. It would have been better if she'd never even qualified for the olympics.

Her pathetic drivelling supporters remind me of Hitler's generals in the last days in the bunker in Berlin.

Jimoslimos · 10-06-2012 09:21PM

Motorist wrote: »

Her pathetic drivelling supporters remind me of Hitler's generals in the last days in the bunker in Berlin.

Have to admit, didn't see that Godwin coming!

mathepac · 10-06-2012 09:25PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

We do know. She's seeded into the QF.

Mighty, thanks for that. Hopefully she can add silver or gold to her trophy cabinet and to the awards she has brought to her country, just like Michelle whose medal awards were never reversed, as was pointed out already in the thread.

Pherekydes · 10-06-2012 09:26PM

Motorist wrote: »

It's fitting that she's now a lawyer. She's a disgrace to her country and has tarnished it's reputation.

She tarnished the country's reputation? Grotesque, unbelievable, bizarre, unprecedented.

M cebee · 10-06-2012 09:29PM

she cheated

mathepac · 10-06-2012 09:32PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Have to admit, didn't see that Godwin coming!

Ah the Godwins.

Did we not have an award at one stage for the worst?

K-9 · 10-06-2012 11:21PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

That is incorrect. She was beaten by a Russian, who died at age 43, a Ukrainian, who tested positive in 1993, and a Canadian.

Indeed, sorry, it was the World Championships 1993 I was thinking of, where the 3 Chinese athletes beat her.

bob50 · 10-06-2012 11:27PM

I am amazed at the amount of begrudgery here about Michelle Smith

She won her medals so what if she had help in winning them i wonder how many top athletes in any sport dont have help in winning gold medals. in this day and age i would have tought assistance would be required in reaching top place

Also the media in this country are a disgrace singing Michelles praises in 96 and 2 years later she becomes a ogre

Monty Burnz · 10-06-2012 11:37PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

We do know. She's seeded into the QF.

Having said that, she had to get into the semis of the world championships (I think?) to even qualify for the Olympics...

Monty Burnz · 10-06-2012 11:38PM

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, sorry, it was the World Championships 1993 I was thinking of, where the 3 Chinese athletes beat her.

And all three disappeared off the map immediately afterwards. Not. Suspicious. At. All.

devotional1993 · 11-06-2012 12:33AM

Girl was more juiced up than Mr Delmontes orange orchard. Made a fool of us all at the time. looking back though it was so bloody obvious.

foxyboxer · 11-06-2012 11:23AM

Michelle Smith didn't take performance enhancing drugs.

Oh, and OJ Simpson didn't murder Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.

rgmmg · 11-06-2012 11:37AM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Do you think she tampered with the sample? If so why? This situation bothers me. What if she's totally innocent, imagine how horrible it must feel to be on the bad end of a witch hunt. Na wouldn't ride her either.

Thought it was a tampon in the urine sample?

latenia · 11-06-2012 11:49AM

I think her greatest mistake was going on to win 2 more golds and a bronze after the first one. If you're going to cheat don't overdo it like the class dunce who suddenly gets straight A's. If she had just won the first gold then taken it easy afterwards she would still be a national heroine-because it's plausible that anyone can get a great result on their day.

Was Michelle de Bruin our greatest Olympian? Eamonn Coughlan says yes

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