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Atheists versus "non-Atheists" for organ donations

  • 10-06-2012 02:53AM
    #1
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭


    After reading the cremation thread, I started wondering about organ donation and the percentage of Atheists who donate versus the others.

    It is imprinted on my driver's license that I am an organ donor, so in the event of my demise there are no questions about donation.

    I did it without hesitation, so I'm curious if Atheists are more liable (percentage-wise) to become donors versus non-Atheists. I understand the confusion with Christians because when they rise up from their graves after the second coming (or whenever), they will probably want to be intact i.e. they can't have an eye here and a heart there and a liver in someone else. I can see riots breaking out by the risers seeking their body parts back again.

    As a percentage of our corresponding groups, are we more willing to become donors?


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Comments

  • #2
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    So, you are looking for statistics to reafirm your superiority complex of atheism? :confused:

    Maybe a quick google would point out that religious people in general have no problem with it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_organ_donation


  • #3
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    jank wrote: »
    So, you are looking for statistics to reafirm your superiority complex of atheism? :confused:

    BORING!!!!

    *looks at who thanked Jank's post*

    Surprise surprise :rolleyes:


  • #4
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    By all means feel free to comment on the subject Galvasean. Or is it easier to snipe from the sidelines.


  • #5
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    jank wrote: »
    By all means feel free to comment on the subject Galvasean. Or is it easier to snipe from the sidelines.
    Says the poster whose very first reply to the OP was in the form of a snipe.

    Honestly, jank, if the threads on this forum irk you so much you don't have to read them.

    This is not a conversation opener.
    On topic please.


  • #6
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,415 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Kivaro wrote: »
    After reading the cremation thread, I started wondering about organ donation and the percentage of Atheists who donate versus the others.

    It is imprinted on my driver's license that I am an organ donor, so in the event of my demise there are no questions about donation.

    I did it without hesitation, so I'm curious if Atheists are more liable (percentage-wise) to become donors versus non-Atheists. I understand the confusion with Christians because when they rise up from their graves after the second coming (or whenever), they will probably want to be intact i.e. they can't have an eye here and a heart there and a liver in someone else. I can see riots breaking out by the risers seeking their body parts back again.

    As a percentage of our corresponding groups, are we more willing to become donors?

    I don't think Christians believe their body will rise up, but their soul. Therefore organ donation isn't an issue as you can't donate your soul (because if it does exist, it's not a physical thing, which like most parts of religion, is very f*cking convenient)


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  • #7
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    jank wrote: »
    So, you are looking for statistics to reafirm your superiority complex of atheism? :confused:

    That's the interpretation you might come to if you're a sarky whiney bore, but another might be that the OP hypothesizes that religious/spiritual/mystical baggage might make theists less comfortable with organ donation than atheists, who would generally have a materialist view of things. Now the OP is looking for evidence to support or falsify this.
    jank wrote: »
    Maybe a quick google would point out that religious people in general have no problem with it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...organ_donation

    That article gives an overview of what religious leaders and policy-makers say. And we all know that the flock don't necessarily fall in line with things just because the leaders say so.

    So really your post wasn't very good was it? You were quick off the mark to get an oul snipe in, but should have put more effort into it.

    6/10 at best


  • #8
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Not heard anyone of any religious persuasion/none who has an issue with organ donation as a whole - I have heard lots of people say they couldn't/would donate or consent to donate eyes...being the window to the soul and all...


  • #9
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Penn wrote: »
    I don't think Christians believe their body will rise up, but their soul. Therefore organ donation isn't an issue as you can't donate your soul (because if it does exist, it's not a physical thing, which like most parts of religion, is very f*cking convenient)

    I think some onthe denominations do actually believe their actual body will rise. Even then it should not be an issue though, surely a thing planning to raise all the dead of a planet would be carrying a few spares?

    MrP


  • #10
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,415 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Penn wrote: »
    I don't think Christians believe their body will rise up, but their soul. Therefore organ donation isn't an issue as you can't donate your soul (because if it does exist, it's not a physical thing, which like most parts of religion, is very f*cking convenient)

    I think some onthe denominations do actually believe their actual body will rise. Even then it should not be an issue though, surely a thing planning to raise all the dead of a planet would be carrying a few spares?

    MrP

    I can't imagine that working against them. "Well, we were going to raise you up to Heaven, but you tried to help people in death... so... Sorry... But look, we'll have a word with Satan, get him to put you in the least worse part of Hell, yeah?"


  • #11
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    @ Dave! - less of the obvious ad hominems in your posting please.


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  • #12
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Sorry, will be more subtle in future!


  • #13
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Dave! wrote: »
    That's the interpretation you might come to if you're a sarky whiney bore, but another might be that the OP hypothesizes that religious/spiritual/mystical baggage might make theists less comfortable with organ donation than atheists, who would generally have a materialist view of things. Now the OP is looking for evidence to support or falsify this.



    That article gives an overview of what religious leaders and policy-makers say. And we all know that the flock don't necessarily fall in line with things just because the leaders say so.

    So really your post wasn't very good was it? You were quick off the mark to get an oul snipe in, but should have put more effort into it.

    6/10 at best

    Thanks Dave.
    I was genuinely interested based on psychological/religious reasons.


  • #14
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Dades wrote: »
    Says the poster whose very first reply to the OP was in the form of a snipe.

    Honestly, jank, if the threads on this forum irk you so much you don't have to read them.

    This is not a conversation opener.
    On topic please.

    Doesn't irk me at all, just very amused that we are discussing these things as if its a matter of supporting the right "team". Dare to say something different the hounds are released so to speak. Challenge the general consensus, half a dozen posters will respond in kind. Very aggressive bunch here.


  • #15
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    jank wrote: »
    Doesn't irk me at all, just very amused that we are discussing these things as if its a matter of supporting the right "team". Dare to say something different the hounds are released so to speak. Challenge the general consensus, half a dozen posters will respond in kind. Very aggressive bunch here.
    pot-kettle-black.jpg


  • #16
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Care to elaborate or do you like posting images.


  • #17
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    jank wrote: »
    Care to elaborate or do you like posting images.
    You don't know what the picture means?

    You accuse everyone of being aggressive yet pretty much every single post of yours I've seen in this forum in the last day or two has been agressive. It seems to me that you're just looking for a reaction without adding anything of substance.


  • #18
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    jank wrote: »
    Doesn't irk me at all, just very amused that we are discussing these things as if its a matter of supporting the right "team". Dare to say something different the hounds are released so to speak. Challenge the general consensus, half a dozen posters will respond in kind. Very aggressive bunch here.
    Maybe you just read perfectly benign threads in adversarial ways for some reason.

    Besides a few tongue in cheek jokes, there was nothing about the OP to suggest that they were trying to reaffirm anything. Just asking a legitimate question.


  • #19
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    jank wrote: »
    Doesn't irk me at all, just very amused that we are discussing these things as if its a matter of supporting the right "team". Dare to say something different the hounds are released so to speak. Challenge the general consensus, half a dozen posters will respond in kind. Very aggressive bunch here.

    It is tiresome when a person, such as yourself, joins a thread and assumes the thread is some kind of "atheists are better" justification thread. Sometimes the thread is simply about something the OP finds interesting, which I think is the case here.

    Besides, we already know we are better. We don't. We don't need confirmation based on donor rates. :D

    MrP


  • #20
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Dave! wrote: »
    Maybe you just read perfectly benign threads in adversarial ways for some reason.

    Besides a few tongue in cheek jokes, there was nothing about the OP to suggest that they were trying to reaffirm anything. Just asking a legitimate question.

    He has a crisp on his shoulder? Say it isn't so.

    MrP


  • #21
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    MrPudding wrote: »
    He has a crisp on his shoulder? Say it isn't so.

    MrP
    He has a hunky dory on his shoulder.


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  • #22
    Real Life
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Real Life


    I have an organ donor card on me all the time and i have my drivers license signed for organ donation too, I dont know how religious people feel but i can say i did have a conversation about this with friends before, everyone in the room (about 8) was atheist apart from 2 and the 2 of them said they wouldnt donate their organs. Obviously this does prove anything but i thought it was interesting that only the religious people were refusing it.
    Having said that my mother is slightly religious and she wants to donate her organs so obviously its just different for everyone.


  • #23
    doctoremma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    My husband manages a tissue bank, where excess pieces of people from operations (think tumours, veins, heart valves etc) are collected for medical research. Generally, most people consent to allowing their tissue used in research (with some "get out" clauses to allow for people's preferences on stem cell/cloning research). However, he observes that the majority who don't consent and state their reason do so on religious grounds. As he has zero interest in such things, he doesn't overanalyse it but I wonder if it's linked to this subject?


  • #24
    meganj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭meganj


    I'm an organ donor, I imagine the majority of people are, or would be if not yet registered, regardless of religion.

    The only religion I'm aware of that might pose problems for organ donation is the Jewish faith, who believe that the body must be returned as it was given, the removal of an organ either alive or dead can result in your not being buried in a Jewish cemetery.

    However I'm pretty sure most Rabbi's give permission to potential donors because they can use the 'pikuakh nefesh' or the principle of saving a life, which (and forgive me if I'm wrong) I think is essentially you can break Jewish Law if you are doing it to save the life of a person.

    I'd say there's little to no distinction between atheists and theists in organ donation, but would be interested to know if the religion of the family (or lack there of) would influence the family in making a decision about donation after a loved ones death.


  • #25
    Real Life
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Real Life


    doctoremma wrote: »
    My husband manages a tissue bank, where excess pieces of people from operations (think tumours, veins, heart valves etc) are collected for medical research. Generally, most people consent to allowing their tissue used in research (with some "get out" clauses to allow for people's preferences on stem cell/cloning research). However, he observes that the majority who don't consent and state their reason do so on religious grounds. As he has zero interest in such things, he doesn't overanalyse it but I wonder if it's linked to this subject?

    it seems rediculous to not want to give away an organ or tissue etc to research when its of no use to you and can help someone else, i dont understand why anyone would feel like that. Last year i gave my colon to research after it was removed. I had to sign something to allow it, even that seemed rediculous to me, i just said to the surgeon its of no use to me anymore i dont care what you do with it.


  • #26
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,204 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Real Life wrote: »
    it seems rediculous to not want to give away an organ or tissue etc to research when its of no use to you and can help someone else, i dont understand why anyone would feel like that. Last year i gave my colon to research after it was removed. I had to sign something to allow it, even that seemed rediculous to me, i just said to the surgeon its of no use to me anymore i dont care what you do with it.

    I donated my record amount of gall stones plus hideously swollen gall bladder...I do wish I could have been there so when the lecturer informed the medical students that the patient would have been in severe pain I could have raised one eyebrow and say 'No **** Sherlock'.


  • #27
    doctoremma
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    Real Life wrote: »
    it seems rediculous to not want to give away an organ or tissue etc to research when its of no use to you and can help someone else, i dont understand why anyone would feel like that.
    The sign up rate is high, although it's fair to say that the care team perform a mini-screen of patients and can identify those who don't want to even talk to the tissue bank. So I guess the most extreme detractors slip through the stats here. By the time my husband gets to them, they have already been prepped for the talk and are open to the possibility. The back out rate at this stage is low.
    Real Life wrote: »
    Last year i gave my colon to research after it was removed.
    *thumbs up*
    Real Life wrote: »
    I had to sign something to allow it, even that seemed rediculous to me
    Well, a crazy pathologist who robbed organs without consent changed the law forever regarding tissue donation (in the UK, at least).


  • #28
    Knasher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    meganj wrote: »
    The only religion I'm aware of that might pose problems for organ donation is the Jewish faith, who believe that the body must be returned as it was given, the removal of an organ either alive or dead can result in your not being buried in a Jewish cemetery.
    Really? According to the wikipedia page on religious views on organ donation, "Orthodox Judaism considers it obligatory if it will save a life, as long as the donor is considered dead as defined by Jewish law". There probably are sects that take different views, but I don't think it applies to Judaism universally.

    According to the same page Jehovah's Witnesses are actually okay with organ donation so long as the blood is drained from the organ. Although I doubt it is really viable to drain all the blood from at least some organs (like the lungs maybe?).

    And of course you get to the more fringe groups, like for example the christian scientists, who pretty much don't believe in medicine.


  • #29
    meganj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭meganj


    Knasher wrote: »
    Really? According to the wikipedia page on religious views on organ donation, "Orthodox Judaism considers it obligatory if it will save a life, as long as the donor is considered dead as defined by Jewish law". There probably are sects that take different views, but I don't think it applies to Judaism universally.

    I stand corrected, although I am nearly positive that at the very least if you are seeking to do a live donation, for example kidney, you at least need to consult your Rabbi, I know some have applied for permission only to have it rejected.

    But as you say sects and whatnot.


  • #30
    Pushtrak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    Organ donation was something I always had planned as a "I'll get around to it" thing. I know I posted in a topic a long time ago but still hadn't gotten around to it. Well, no time like the present, and I just looked up online about doing so. Honestly hypocritical of me for what I posted there and not having one yet.

    http://www.organdonation.ie/donate


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  • #31
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    There was an issue of hospitals taking the internal organs of still births and babies that died after birth, filling the body with stuffing and not telling the parents. I imagine that this also added to the requirement for consent


This discussion has been closed.
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