Public Sector Unaccountability Vs Private Sector Criminality

Paulzx · 08-06-2012 02:02PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

My point is that builders, developers that profited from the boom have now lost everything and been bankrupted. .

If you regard losing everything as still living in a 5,000sq foot house in Donnybrook, or fecking off to America to continue living the high life or still sending your kids to 10,000 euro a year private schools...........all whilst having hundreds of millions of euro of debt taken over by Nama, well then i suppose, yeah,they have lost everything

SafeSurfer · 08-06-2012 02:44PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Point out the crimes the committed!
You'll find bad management isn't a crime. There is a world problem which is worse here mainly due to actions of the masses. Lots of little bad decisions got us here but they weren't illegal.

Looking for an individual or select group to blame just shows little understanding. So so much was out of our control and being in euro also made for a new element.

I am not saying that crimes have been committed. I am saying that the incompetence of regulators, etc has had absolutely no consequences for them. Whereas in a private business if you are incompetent you lose your business, livelihood and home.

There was a lot that was still in our control. The government and regulators had the power to take some of the steam out of the property bubble. Instead during the biggest building boom arguably in any European country since the second world war they extended property tax incentives and even introduced new ones.

Elected county councillors rezoned huge tracts of land that would meet multiples of the forseeable demand. State employed planners allowed for massive over development and continued to rezone and grant planning aftern the crash. These same planners and development enforcement officers allowed the construction of thousands of gerry built unsafe houses and aparttments. The people that bought them are now homeless while the people that signed off on their construction remain unsanctioned in a job that they are clearly incapable of doing.

true · 08-06-2012 02:49PM

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm in the Public sector and i have seen my pay drop steadily since 2009.

turn the record off. Your pay doubled between 1999 and 2009, and you are still overpaid and overpensioned, with an absenteeism rate statistically far higher than the private sector. The country cannot afford the extra 9 billion a year you are costing us compared to 1999.

SafeSurfer · 08-06-2012 02:53PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So from your POV the banking execs and developers have been sufficently punished and the only people escaping without punishment are public servants?

Can you explain in more detail what you mean when you say "lost everything"?

I am not saying that anybody has been punished. I am saying that one sector has suffered consequences from their poor decisions while another sector have not.

By lost everything I mean everythinh that one has worked to achieve. Livelihood, business, home etc.

Paulzx wrote: »

If you regard losing everything as still living in a 5,000sq foot house in Donnybrook, or fecking off to America to continue living the high life or still sending your kids to 10,000 euro a year private schools...........all whilst having hundreds of millions of euro of debt taken over by Nama, well then i suppose, yeah,they have lost everything

Answer me this. Who has decided to keep employing the developers in NAMA? Was it a decision by someone employed in the public or private sector?

I think you know the answer. Maybe its symptomatic of the "reward failure" culture.

Odysseus · 08-06-2012 05:23PM

true wrote: »

turn the record off. Your pay doubled between 1999 and 2009, and you are still overpaid and overpensioned, with an absenteeism rate statistically far higher than the private sector. The country cannot afford the extra 9 billion a year you are costing us compared to 1999.

Maybe you should have a look at you own record. I and others I work with now do private work and we earn more there than in our public sector jobs, so how can I be over paid when I earn more outside of the public sector?

Apart from this a document landed on my desk today about further cuts to services and wages, sadly as usual it's people who earn average wages who will be hit the hardest.

Logical Fallacy · 08-06-2012 06:03PM

true wrote: »

so if people cannot afford to see you privately, why not bring down down your charges and stop gloating about all the money you earn?
There was someone on the radio the other day saying how they were on the continent and the consultant only charged 26 euro !
Do not forget the outroar here 5 years ago when the hospital consultants said they thought 200,000 k a year pay was peanuts, and the german ambassador pointed out how consultants in germany earned half that - and even the p.m. of germany earned less !
Do not forget public sector pay here doubled in ten years. The german ambassador was proved right in his comments. Time for you and your comrades to get realistic and stop exploiting people.

I like how you call his friends "comrades" when you are the one banging on like a Commie.

I love this "on the continent" bull****. Which country exactly? What is their cost of living compared to ours? What is their average wage compared to ours?

Bring some decent facts to the discussion and I might just entertain any point you are trying to make (which mostly seems to be swinging rapidly from comparing consultants to politicians to private practitioners) until then your posting is largely just pointless rabble.

Pedant · 08-06-2012 06:21PM

Public Sector Unaccountability: Union beards, leeching off the system, fat yolks behind the counter coming in late and taking the afternoon off, wasting tax payer money, sitting on your hole all day doing nothing.

Private Sector Criminality: Casinos, flash cars, guns, cocaine, pimps 'n' bitches.

Choose wisely.

true · 08-06-2012 06:25PM

Odysseus wrote: »

Maybe you should have a look at you own record. I and others I work with now do private work and we earn more there than in our public sector jobs, so how can I be over paid when I earn more outside of the public sector?

You work in the Health service as you claim, and you do private practice too. Not mant people are qualified like you, lucky enough to be able to command fees like you. I made the point some consultants on the continent charge 26 euro per consultation, but because of a cartel here among consultants and other factors its much higher than that here - as anyone who ever visited a hospital consultant on a private basis in this country will testify.
Have a look across the border to the north, or look at Germany, and you will see consultants paid much less than you. Time you brought down your prices, my friend.;)

true · 08-06-2012 06:28PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

What is their cost of living compared to ours? What is their average wage compared to ours?

average public sector wage in UK, our nearest neighbour, is 22k a year stg. Here our public sector average pay is 49k a year.
our private sector average pay is 34k a year
www.cso.ie

telly_lover · 08-06-2012 07:10PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Wake up & smell the roses. Private sector developers and private sector bankers have brought this country to its knees and all you can do is moan about the public servants:eek:

banks couldnt have lent to the degree they did had public sector oversight been in anyway functional , it was in the goverments interests to keep the property market booming and for that to happen , credit needed to be freely available , the financial regulator was quietly told by goverment to look the other way

bertie ahernes fingerprints are all over what happened

telly_lover · 08-06-2012 07:12PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Those you mention are but a tiny fraction of the ps. What nurses, doctors, teachers,gardai,army,civil service staff, porters, domestic staff, etc,etc., were responsible for the recession or can be held accountable for the crash?

of course guards , nurses and teachers were not responsible for the banking crisis but what relevance does this have to anything

telly_lover · 08-06-2012 07:15PM

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm sick of this ****, private sector workers chose their careers, no one made them. I'm in the Public sector and i have seen my pay drop steadily since 2009. I have bugger all left after bills/mortgage/creche are paid. I never got any over time when times were better yet everyone drones on about public service workers having a cushy number, good pay and security.... why the fúck didn't you choose a public sector job if you wanted security? Answer: because when you started in your career there was more money in the private sector (thats why they brought in bench marking afterall) but now that things arent going well you think you have some right to cry and whinge like a bítch about the public sector, well you don't! You made your bed so now lie in it and SHUT THE FÚCK UP!!!

actually average public sector pay was ahead of average private sector pay right throughout the boom and the foundation for benchmarking has never really held up to scrutiny , the union line about bringing guards and teachers into line with sean dunne doesnt hold up

Odysseus · 08-06-2012 07:21PM

true wrote: »

You work in the Health service as you claim, and you do private practice too. Not mant people are qualified like you, lucky enough to be able to command fees like you. I made the point some consultants on the continent charge 26 euro per consultation, but because of a cartel here among consultants and other factors its much higher than that here - as anyone who ever visited a hospital consultant on a private basis in this country will testify.
Have a look across the border to the north, or look at Germany, and you will see consultants paid much less than you. Time you brought down your prices, my friend.;)

My fees are competive otherwise people would not come, I charge the lowest fee I know of, but still earn more privately than my public service rate. So as I said this 33% is sh!te. Same with different members of my team. So it just doesn't gel

true · 08-06-2012 07:32PM

Odysseus wrote: »

My fees are competive otherwise people would not come, I charge the lowest fee I know of,

Consultants in this country charge more or less the same - all rip off prices. Go to the continent where private consultations with hospital consultants can be got for 26 euro. How much do you charge in your medical profession?

Odysseus · 08-06-2012 07:54PM

true wrote: »

Consultants in this country charge more or less the same - all rip off prices. Go to the continent where private consultations with hospital consultants can be got for 26 euro. How much do you charge in your medical profession?

You keeping highlighting consultants for some reason and I'm not a medic. My private fees vary depending on the person's position. I can live in Spain for a lot less than I can here, so if I was in Spain I would not need as much to live on, so how can we compare them.

telly_lover · 08-06-2012 07:58PM

Odysseus wrote: »

My fees are competive otherwise people would not come, I charge the lowest fee I know of, but still earn more privately than my public service rate. So as I said this 33% is sh!te. Same with different members of my team. So it just doesn't gel

no such thing as undercutting amongst the consultant and GP sector , not only that , when it comes to GP,s , they dont even see patients from outside their catchment area , doctors have an unwritten contract which says they wont rob each others patients

this entire sheltered sector looks and acts like a closed shop

telly_lover · 08-06-2012 08:01PM

true wrote: »

Consultants in this country charge more or less the same - all rip off prices. Go to the continent where private consultations with hospital consultants can be got for 26 euro. How much do you charge in your medical profession?

the problem is not the price they charge , a publican could charge 50 euro for a pint but he would soon run out of customers

the difference is that their is no cap in the number of pubs which can open , very different story when it comes to consultants and especially the GP sector

Odysseus · 08-06-2012 08:12PM

telly_lover wrote: »

no such thing as undercutting amongst the consultant and GP sector , not only that , when it comes to GP,s , they dont even see patients from outside their catchment area , doctors have an unwritten contract which says they wont rob each others patients

this entire sheltered sector looks and acts like a closed shop

I have friends who are GPs and that is sh!te, there is no such unwritten rule. GPs don't have catchment areas. I can go to loads of different GPs if I want anywhere that suits me.

golden lane · 08-06-2012 08:16PM

Odysseus wrote: »

I have friends who are GPs and that is sh!te, there is no such unwritten rule. GPs don't have catchment areas. I can go to loads of different GPs if I want anywhere that suits me.

there should be a national health service.......there is enough of money to do it...

Odysseus · 08-06-2012 08:30PM

golden lane wrote: »

there should be a national health service.......there is enough of money to do it...

We would still have people saying all the staff are overpaid:rolleyes:

golden lane · 08-06-2012 08:35PM

Odysseus wrote: »

We would still have people saying all the staff are overpaid:rolleyes:

well, if they are.....then they should not be.....

a national service....not a nationalised one....there can still be a private section for peoples choice....

wages in any country should reflect the wealth creating sector.......

BornToKill · 08-06-2012 08:35PM

Does anyone else get a feeling of deja vu all over again reading this thread? Hasn't this been done to death? I think everything has been said at this stage. We need some action - at least a few jailings after four years now of investigations. I can't imagine what's going on to cause such delays. We're told it's all 'complicated' but investigations are starting to look like they could become the new tribunals. Wait 10 years for nothing very much.

Odysseus · 08-06-2012 08:52PM

BornToKill wrote: »

Does anyone else get a feeling of deja vu all over again reading this thread? Hasn't this been done to death? I think everything has been said at this stage. We need some action - at least a few jailings after four years now of investigations. I can't imagine what's going on to cause such delays. We're told it's all 'complicated' but investigations are starting to look like they could become the new tribunals. Wait 10 years for nothing very much.

I agree, I just got sucked into this one. As I stated in a post above a document landed on my desk today about further cuts. It won't effect my wage as I don't get paid overtime, but people on low wages who get paid overtime are in for a lot of pain.

The cutbacks include a lot of changes in work practices which may save money, but it will really be a much poorer service being supplied. However, even those who will lose money are more angry over the effects these cutbacks will have on the quality of the service we provide.

toexpress · 10-06-2012 03:59PM

Pedant wrote: »

Public Sector Unaccountability: Union beards, leeching off the system, fat yolks behind the counter coming in late and taking the afternoon off, wasting tax payer money, sitting on your hole all day doing nothing.

Private Sector Criminality: Casinos, flash cars, guns, cocaine, pimps 'n' bitches.

Choose wisely.

Yes but the former comes with a nice big pension, the latter with failed entrance mat and tea business'

Bullseye1 · 10-06-2012 04:03PM

There was criminality in the public sector also or have you forgotten about the planning tribunal? Criminality is not restricted to the private sector.

Doc Ruby · 10-06-2012 06:08PM

true wrote: »

so if people cannot afford to see you privately, why not bring down down your charges and stop gloating about all the money you earn?

You'd swear it was a crime to make a living using your hard earned skills that people pay you of their own free will for. Its like I was reading some fella on another forum holding forth about how JK Rowling's earnings should be capped, as she has more than you could spend in a hundred lifetimes.

More power to her I say, nobody forced anyone to buy her books, she brought pleasure to millions and they freely decided to compensate her.

SafeSurfer · 10-06-2012 06:12PM

BornToKill wrote: »

Does anyone else get a feeling of deja vu all over again reading this thread? Hasn't this been done to death? I think everything has been said at this stage. We need some action - at least a few jailings after four years now of investigations. I can't imagine what's going on to cause such delays. We're told it's all 'complicated' but investigations are starting to look like they could become the new tribunals. Wait 10 years for nothing very much.

What seems to be emerging on the grapevine is that the defence offered by the Anglo bankers for one will be that they acted with the full knowledge and support of not just the regulator but the central bank and the department of finance. The scheme to prop up the Anglo share price by lending money to a golden circle to purchase Anglo shares was hatched not in Anglo HQ but in government buildings. If this turns out to be the case it will be an almighty mess, possibly exposing the taxpayer to further pain. The untimely death of one of the the main players in these events further complicates matters.

Pedant · 10-06-2012 06:41PM

toexpress wrote: »

Yes but the former comes with a nice big pension, the latter with failed entrance mat and tea business'

Public Sector: Stare at a blank wall all day. Get pension and do the same at home or in a nursing home.

Private Sector: Live like a film star. Die young. In the private sector you can cut your losses.

Public Sector Unaccountability Vs Private Sector Criminality

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