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Prometheus *SPOILERS FROM POST 1538*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    perhaps the xenomorphs are sort of like the end product of evolution, a perfect killing machine adaptable to almost any environment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    A lot of people like to give this film Kudos in the amount of discussion it has generated and it is true to say I haven't talked about a film at length like this since Inception (another film by an auteur director). The difference between the two tho imo is that in Inception Nolan made a compelling movie with character/s I could emotionally engage with, thus freeing me to mull over, at length, the many theories and themes brought up in the film in that thread. Ridley did me no such favors with Prometheus tho here he fashioned a film so fraught with bone headedly stupid characters and logic fails that it's whole success is promulgated on us finding it's whole ancient aliens concept profound and as a result am left ,like many others, picking holes. So in short it isn't enough to say "wow look at how much discussion it is generating, it must be good" , it has to be the right sort of discussion , if the discussion on a film such as this, that attempts to tackle the origin of the species, generates more discussion of plot and character issues then the larger themes it attempts to raise then you know there is something fundamentally wrong .

    I can't help wonder what might have been had the Brothers Jonathan & Christopher Nolan taken a swing at this .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭GAAman


    jcf wrote: »
    So is the sequel confirmed or what ? are people just assuming so ?

    As Mickeroo said it will depend on how well the film does but I think it was made with the sequel well in sight. As I said earlier they planet was the wrong one from the first Alien film. Also in the first Alien film when the Nostromo crew are exploring the ship there is a space jockey in a pilots chair with (IIRC) their chest burst out.

    Now the second point could be neatly explained if they needed in a deleted scene where one of the other ships was the ship explored in the first film but the planet would still be the wrong one.

    That is without even getting into the ending of this film where David's head :pac: is piloting a ship to the engineer home world


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Tim Kelly from Chud pretty much nails it for me.
    Ridley Scott’s Prometheus is a technical achievement – a visually stunning sci-fi realization made all the more dazzling with supreme use of 3D by a master playing with the form his first time. It’s an almost perfect marriage of practical and computer wizardry with rich CG landscapes and gruesome, tentacled monstrosities. But Prometheus is also a film of ideas and it’s the weight of too many ideas combined with a profound lack of character depth that make the film a stunning but lifeless affair.

    I’ve made no secret my excitement for Ridley Scott’s return to the world of Alien, his second and arguably greatest work. With so much of Prometheus, a prequel, reverse engineered from Alien, Scott is perhaps opening himself up to some unfair expectations. For those expecting a straight follow-up and rightful successor to the original horror classic, you can abandon that notion immediately. Prometheus is not Alien.

    Nor should it be. As Josh Miller points out in his Franchise Me, Alien is near-perfect filmmaking: a consummate blend of nightmarish horror and mind-bending science-fiction. It’s fertile ground, particularly with the mystery surrounding Alien’s Space Jockey, for a jumping-off point into both expanding the universe and exploring the questions the original film chose to leave unanswered.


    Beautiful landscapes like this one make Prometheus a visual treat for the eyes.

    And yet it’s clear some mysteries are best left unsolved. The film explores in-depth the nature of those extraterrestrial astronauts discovered at the beginning of Alien – who they are, what they look like under those H.R. Giger designed space suits and, most importantly, their intentions with Earth past and present.

    It’s not the answers that disappoint, but how the film provides those answers that rings uninspired. Damon Lindelof’s script (working off an earlier draft by Jon Spaihts) is engaging in broad stokes, but takes far too many shortcuts and shoddy character beats– infusing the film with a B-level of cheese that Scott, along with screenwriter Dan O’Bannon (also David Glier and Walter Hill, uncredited), were able to avoid with Alien. The real kicker is how we learn about the Space Jockeys – through holographic recreations showing their final moments. How they’re queued or why they even exist are never explained. It’s equivalent to watching 3D security footage. It’s a lazy way to tell a story, and the filmmakers go to that well far too often.

    It’s the above-mentioned broad strokes that entice you to stay with Prometheus’ 124 minutes in the hope that it’ll improve. The film opens at the very beginning, quite literally, as we see how life on Earth was created. Seeking the how and why of our existence, scientist couple Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace) and Charlie Holloway (Logan Marshall-Greene) embark with a crew of 15 others aboard spaceship Prometheus to LV-223 – a distant moon that might provide the answers they seek (Alien, for those wondering, visits LV-426). They’re there at the funding of trillionaire businessman Peter Weyland (Guy Pierce sporting some truly horrendous old-man prosthetics). Alien fans will identify Weyland as one half of the future Weyland-Yutani Corporation, still just Weyland Corp. here. Also present is the ship’s grizzled, battle-tested mission director: Meredith Vickers (Charlize Theron). As you might expect, the mission becomes unhinged as the true nature of LV-233 is realized to eviscerating results.


    Top-notch production design keeps Prometheus visually in-step with its predecessor.



    So much of what’s wrong with Prometheus is apparent with that needlessly robust crew. At 17, there are too many characters aboard this ship we’re expected to invest in. Scott and Lindelof attempt to inject these people with tics and motivations that feel arbitrary and tacked on. By end, most of them will still be nameless faces, some of whom will simply disappear. Ultimately, the crew of Prometheus is the audiences’ window into the Earth of 2192. As there’s not much to invest in character-wise, it’s difficult to invest in the threats posed to them and, potentially, Earth itself.

    Noomi Rapace’s Shaw never connects like she should. It’s through no fault of Rapace’s – a welcome presence. Instead, there’s never enough of Shaw or her story to hold onto and care about. Her counterpoint Holloway is another story, as Marshall-Greene’s lifeless, thudding performance delivers one clunking line after another. You’re in a Ridley Scott movie, son. Attempt to raise your game.

    Equally unfortunate is Idris Elba’s Janek, captain of the Prometheus. He’s never really introduced, he just sort of fades in and encapsulates the greater character issues of the film. He feels like a character someone aping Alien would write – in that he’s injected with an “aw shucks” charm the audience can identify with. But it’s hollow, as Elba is also forced to deliver the film’s most egregious spot of exposition, spelling out the nature of LV-233 in the most inorganic of moments and settings. It’s in that instance where Prometheus’ narrative truly squanders what little goodwill it’s built up. He makes a choice at the end of the film that would have great resonance had he and his associates been put to better use.

    If Charlize Theron’s character’s motivations are unfocused, her performance is not. This turn, with Theron’s ability to project vulnerability and concern beneath that badass exterior, had me wishing that Vickers, not Shaw, was the true focal point of the film. Unfortunately Vickers eventually gets boxed into being one of the many heavies that drags Prometheus into an unfocused menagerie.

    Michael Fassbender, as he’s wont to do, is again the best thing about the film he appears in. His android David is a diabolically ambivalent character – a savory addition to a franchise that’s already given film some of its most thought-provoking robots. I call some of David’s actions into question (particularly how he endangers the entire crew with an experiment he couldn’t possibly predict the result of) but that, again, is a criticism of the script and not the performance.


    Michael Fassbender delivers another remarkable performance as David.



    Prometheus is at its most engaging in moments of shock and horror. There’s a tentacle beast that gleefully owes its design to Alien’s facehugger. There’s also some live, bloody surgery taking place that amounts to the film’s strongest and most affecting scene. The practical work in Prometheus is every bit as gorgeous as Scott’s illustrious CG tapestries – proof positive that the work of great practical effects artists is still a necessary and worthwhile endeavor in modern film.

    It all comes down to focus, of which Prometheus offers too little. Too many characters, too many threats, and too many ideas – all of which are never provided proper attention. The overreaching arc of the film is bogged down by B, C, D, E and F plotlines that go in divergent directions. The ship of the Space Jockey is a house of horrors, but its horrors never manifest a cohesive story. We’re pulled in a variety of directions that, when presented with the biggest threat, are abandoned. Where Alien raised extraordinary questions, Prometheus goes about answering them in truly ordinary ways – or not at all. The nature of the Space Jockey, or at least their purpose on LV-233, will be underwhelmingly apparent long before Janek appears to spell it out.

    Prometheus is not a lead-up to Alien. It ends on a jumping-off point to explore one of its own entangled mysteries – one that I have no interest exploring with it. For those wondering: yes, you will know quite explicitly that this takes place in the Alien universe. However, it occurs in a reveal that serves no greater purpose or threat, as the story has already moved away. It amounts to a shallow, though admittedly very cool-looking, bit of fanwank.


    The titular ship taking off.



    And with that, I’m left contemplating whether genre filmmaking is indeed a young filmmaker’s game. In recent years we’ve seen the likes of John Carpenter, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and now Ridley Scott revisit genres or universes they helped bring to prominence – all to middling results. Prometheus never sinks to levels of Star Wars prequel or Crystal Skull awfulness, but it offers a strikingly-similar soulless experience – one that revels in technical mastery while neglecting the captivating storytelling that put its predecessor on the map.

    I wish I could give Prometheus higher marks. From a visual standpoint, this is a film that does everything right. Visually astounding yet hollow in every other conceivable aspect, it’s one half of a great film. As such, I can only give it one half of a ringing endorsement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Looks to me like the black goo actually creates engineers, which may be how they populate a planet. Isn't that what it did to away member number 2? turn him into an engineer.
    May well be their way of reproducing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭Tayleur


    just seen this and was unfortunately not impressed :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭jcsoulinger


    Looks to me like the black goo actually creates engineers, which may be how they populate a planet. Isn't that what it did to away member number 2? turn him into an engineer.
    May well be their way of reproducing.

    what about the opening sequence where the goo liquefies one of them,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    what about the opening sequence where the goo liquefies one of them,

    I don't think that was actually goo. Saying that maybe its a two stage thing, 1st create life on earth, wait for it to fill up, then introduce the goo, the end result being aliens.
    One thing that keeps coming back is the picture of the alien on the ship, this would infer some kind of idolatry, like they worshipped the alien which they may have thought was the ultimate in evolution.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    I don't think that was actually goo. Saying that maybe its a two stage thing, 1st create life on earth, wait for it to fill up, then introduce the goo, the end result being aliens.
    One thing that keeps coming back is the picture of the alien on the ship, this would infer some kind of idolatry, like they worshipped the alien which they may have thought was the ultimate in evolution.

    Yeh for what is supposed to be a cargo ship carrying bioweapons there sure is alot of that , whether its the giant Engineer bust that looms over the Alien goo vases to the mural on the ceiling and finally that wall mounted giger Alien.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,680 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Yeh for what is supposed to be a cargo ship carrying bioweapons there sure is alot of that , whether its the giant Engineer bust that looms over the Alien goo vases to the mural on the ceiling and finally that wall mounted giger Alien.

    That stuff was in the temple structure, not the ship.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    That stuff was in the temple structure, not the ship.

    i thought they were one and the same no ?


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,680 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    i thought they were one and the same no ?

    no the ship is at the end of the long underground tunnel leading away from the temple, where david went down to check the probe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    i thought they were one and the same no ?

    The map on prometheus showed a long tunnel from where the likes of the "mural room" was to where the ship was


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭Calibos


    Those engineer dudes really can play the long game. Create life on Earth 3.5 billion years ago. Wait 3.49 billion years, not evolve yourself in that time and leave word for your Great great (times 3 million even if you assume they live for a thousand years) grandson to check back. Have a chat with the hominids, decide you don't like your creation and want to wipe it out, head back to your weapons factory moon to start stockpiling the final solution, leave word for your great great(times 35) grandson to expect visitors about 30,000 years after your death.......

    A profound origin of the species backstory whether its the xenomorph or us is only profound if it makes sense. Neither origin story does.

    A lot of what is being said in this thread is like saying that Indy 4 was a good film because of the themes and unanswered questions about the aliens at the end. BS !! The aliens at the end of Indy 4 no more excused the rest of the film than the origin themes in Prometheus and in both cases the alien themes didn't make sense anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭GAAman


    Calibos wrote: »
    Those engineer dudes really can play the long game. Create life on Earth 3.5 billion years ago. Wait 3.49 billion years, not evolve yourself in that time and leave word for your Great great (times 3 million even if you assume they live for a thousand years) grandson to check back. Have a chat with the hominids, decide you don't like your creation and want to wipe it out, head back to your weapons factory moon to start stockpiling the final solution, leave word for your great great(times 35) grandson to expect visitors about 30,000 years after your death.......

    image.png

    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 Anonymous User


    I watched it the day it was released and now after reading this forum, I am glad that I am not the only one feeling disappointed by the movie. I quite like the special effect though.

    For those who are still wondering whether the first act in the movie was about an Engineer who was sacrificing himself or being punished may want to read the interview with Daniel Twiss who played as Sacrifice Engineer in this

    One thing that still bothers me until now is about 100% matched DNA. What are we supposed to think from it? That we are descendant of Engineer? Since we see the Engineer's body disintegrating in the water after drinking the liquid so I suppose anything kicked off by the sacrifice must have started from life in the water in the water. The sacrifice must have started all life and not just us, life that started in the water and then evolved into us.

    However, plants' and animals' DNA don't match Engineer. So, what's the point of this 100% matched DNA at all? :confused:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭jcf


    Also the ship that they found in the original Alien film, that was full of facehugger eggs , but this ship was 1000's of years old ?

    so these evolved separately, I thought this film was trying to say that the squid was an ancestor of the facehuggers ...

    :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭Dublin_Gunner


    jcf wrote: »
    Also the ship that they found in the original Alien film, that was full of facehugger eggs , but this ship was 1000's of years old ?

    so these evolved separately, I thought this film was trying to say that the squid was an ancestor of the facehuggers ...

    :confused:


    Maybe it was. But they have remained basically the same for 1000's or even millions of years. Just look at crocodiles. Could be 1 line of aliens evolved form them, while some ancestors remained basically unchanged, or indeed they share a common ancestor.

    Alien is set in 2122, and Prometheus a few years earlier in 2093.

    So unless the aliens managed to evolve to the facehugger in the space of 30 years, which can pretty much state that the derelict and the ship in Prometheus are definitely not the same, and have not even travelled from the same original location. (i.e they have most likely evolved completely separately, in separate solar systems).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭stakey


    I think the worst part about Prometheus is I want(ed) to enjoy it so badly I think I did, but in retrospect I believe it was a massive disappointment.

    My main issue before I even discuss the film itself was the marketing campaign. I can sort of blame myself here, but the ad campaign running up to this release pretty much let loose 60%+ of the plot of this film. It's almost like Scott shot some pretty awesome ads for the studio execs and was asked to put characters around it for a film.

    Seriously though, so many parts of the film was spoiled by seeing the first 10-20 seconds of the event in the adverts.

    The 3D added nothing to the film, particularly the space and ship landing scenes, these would've looked amazing on the iSense screen in 2D (IMHO).

    As for the film itself, the plotline was a disaster, I'd agree wholeheartedly with Tim Kelly's description of 'fanwank'. It's a real shame because this universe and this story in particular really deserve a good story.

    Tbh, I feel Scott was playing it safe here. Before the marketing campaign kicked in Scott spoke of the premise being about seeking out an ancient advanced civilisation that had a different notion of acting civilised. This sounded promising, Prometheus didn't deliver on that. The ancient aliens plot line is a dangerous route to take and if you're going to do it, make it groundbreaking, this wasn't.

    On plot issues, I'm gonna read back through the thread a bit first. I don't want to rehash plot issues as I think a lot of it has been discussed but I really think a disservice was done to the Space Jockey and Alien mythos.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    bullvine wrote: »
    Does the giant facehugger die after he shot his load? or does he have some epic battle with the proto alien.

    For me a lot of the problems lie in the subtleness of the film, I only realised a lot of things in it by reading this thread which is not a good way to figure outta a film. I never copped that the alien cobra thing was just the worms in the ground that had become contaminated by the goo leaking. Makes sense now!

    It dies after using the Engineer as a host who gives 'birth' to an Alien Queen?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭jcf


    are the books or comics in the Alien series any good ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    jcf wrote: »
    Also the ship that they found in the original Alien film, that was full of facehugger eggs , but this ship was 1000's of years old ?

    so these evolved separately, I thought this film was trying to say that the squid was an ancestor of the facehuggers ...

    :confused:

    What I've taken from this is that the Engineers are pretty dumb.

    Firstly, you have the group in the recording 2000 years ago who are stacked in a pile in present day with their chests burst and skulls broken.

    Then you have the Engineer who gets impregnated by the giant squid monster and gets body burst.

    Then you have the Engineer from Alien who gets chest burst to a thing that gives birth to fcuk knows how many eggs.

    Yup, these guys seem to keep falling for the same **** and the worst thing of all is that it's by their own hand. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭missingtime


    stakey wrote: »
    My main issue before I even discuss the film itself was the marketing campaign. I can sort of blame myself here, but the ad campaign running up to this release pretty much let loose 60%+ of the plot of this film. It's almost like Scott shot some pretty awesome ads for the studio execs and was asked to put characters around it for a film.

    Seriously though, so many parts of the film was spoiled by seeing the first 10-20 seconds of the event in the adverts.

    I've stopped watching trailers. Especially for movies that I am really looking forward to.

    I have the girlfriend driven demented by changing channels in the middle of trailers. She's like "Oh this looks good" and I'm running around looking for the remote with my hands over my ears going "la la la la la". I've even resorted to doing it in the cinema.

    I HATE spoilers.

    Anyways, I really enjoyed the movie but like others I found the third act poor enough. You can nearly pin point the exact point where it all goes to ****.

    Also I felt the scene where they just came out of hibernation and were sitting around having food could have been extended just to give the characters a bit more time to settle with each other.

    I re-watched Alien last night, and one thing that bugged me in Prometheus is the engineer got out of his seat (the thing that looks like a massive gun) to chase Noomi Rapace, whereas in Alien his skeleton is still there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob



    I re-watched Alien last night, and one thing that bugged me in Prometheus is the engineer got out of his seat (the thing that looks like a massive gun) to chase Noomi Rapace, whereas in Alien his skeleton is still there.

    It's not the same engineer. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Calibos wrote: »
    Those engineer dudes really can play the long game. Create life on Earth 3.5 billion years ago. Wait 3.49 billion years, not evolve yourself in that time and leave word for your Great great (times 3 million even if you assume they live for a thousand years) grandson to check back. Have a chat with the hominids, decide you don't like your creation and want to wipe it out, head back to your weapons factory moon to start stockpiling the final solution, leave word for your great great(times 35) grandson to expect visitors about 30,000 years after your death.......

    A profound origin of the species backstory whether its the xenomorph or us is only profound if it makes sense. Neither origin story does.

    Unless that was some other planet - which would kinda make more sense
    A lot of what is being said in this thread is like saying that Indy 4 was a good film because of the themes and unanswered questions about the aliens at the end. BS !! The aliens at the end of Indy 4 no more excused the rest of the film than the origin themes in Prometheus and in both cases the alien themes didn't make sense anyway
    Indy 4 wasn't so bad until the brought the aliens into it. The bar fight scene was epic for example.
    I watched it the day it was released and now after reading this forum, I am glad that I am not the only one feeling disappointed by the movie. I quite like the special effect though.

    For those who are still wondering whether the first act in the movie was about an Engineer who was sacrificing himself or being punished may want to read the interview with Daniel Twiss who played as Sacrifice Engineer in this

    One thing that still bothers me until now is about 100% matched DNA. What are we supposed to think from it? That we are descendant of Engineer? Since we see the Engineer's body disintegrating in the water after drinking the liquid so I suppose anything kicked off by the sacrifice must have started from life in the water in the water. The sacrifice must have started all life and not just us, life that started in the water and then evolved into us.

    However, plants' and animals' DNA don't match Engineer. So, what's the point of this 100% matched DNA at all? :confused:

    What I conclude from is that the writer, director and science consutlants on the movie don't know **** about DNA


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,942 ✭✭✭missingtime


    It's not the same engineer. ;)

    :confused:

    So was there were two engineers? I thought there was only one left? Or is it a different ship?


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,680 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo



    So unless the aliens managed to evolve to the facehugger in the space of 30 years, which can pretty much state that the derelict and the ship in Prometheus are definitely not the same, and have not even travelled from the same original location. (i.e they have most likely evolved completely separately, in separate solar systems).

    Going by the rules (if you can call them that) set out in prometheus they could easily evolve to the xenos of the other films in 30 years. Its possible the LV-426 derelict could be one of the other thousands of derelicts on LV-233 I suppose. It looks like they want it to go down the route of the xenos being part human themselves what with Shaw and Holloway essentially being the parents of the species in this film.

    Its kind of annoying though, the xenos had a very obvious life cycle in the other films where as in this movie it seems to be all over the place. The evolution of the monsters in this movie seems very accelerated, in a wird way it actually reminded me of the aliens in the film Evolution with David Duchovny :D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭jcf


    What I've taken from this is that the Engineers are pretty dumb.

    Firstly, you have the group in the recording 2000 years ago who are stacked in a pile in present day with their chests burst and skulls broken.

    Then you have the Engineer who gets impregnated by the giant squid monster and gets body burst.

    Then you have the Engineer from Alien who gets chest burst to a thing that gives birth to fcuk knows how many eggs.

    Yup, these guys seem to keep falling for the same **** and the worst thing of all is that it's by their own hand. :pac:

    I don't think it was like that, I think that ship was carrying a cargo of eggs,
    it wasn't like a queen bust out of him and laid eggs in the ship .... or maybe it was ... I guess Prometheus has ripped up a lot of the mythology,
    the space jockeys for example - now they are human ... can't imagine any book/comic having them as so....


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,680 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    :confused:

    So was there were two engineers? I thought there was only one left? Or is it a different ship?

    Its a different ship yeah, its not even the same planet.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭jcsoulinger


    Dempsey wrote: »
    The map on prometheus showed a long tunnel from where the likes of the "mural room" was to where the ship was

    I may be wrong but I thought that room with the giant head was a cargo hold other wise what was the engineer goin to use to destroy human kind. It may not have been accessible from the cock pit because health and safety is gone mad:D


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