Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538

Eggy Baby! · 07-06-2012 12:39PM

One thing that confused me;

Why did the Engineers place a starmap in those ancient drawings? Was it a threat rather than an invitation? As in; "We have black plasma WMDs that create space cobras from worms here, we can use them on you"
Why place a starmap to what is seemingly a random planet out of trillions and not your homeworld? Why place the starmap at all?

I think that the Engineers possibly had some sort of guiding influence for humanity after humanity began to evolve in become more civilised. Perhaps they were tyrannical "Gods" whom the people feared, and the Engineers demanded that they build ziggurats and pyramids and other monuments to them or else they would bring down a "plague" on them- from the stars *Engineer draws starmap on a wall*. That's how I interpret this anyway. If you notice, most of the Gods of the ancient peoples demanded sacrifices and labour to appease them. This would fit in well with the "Ancient Astronauts" theory and the Annunaki of ancient Middle Eastern cultures (Sumerians? Babylonians? Assyrians? Not sure).

On an unrelated note, I came up with a theory for life being here. Millions upon millions of years ago, an alien ship took a rest stop on Earth. One of the aliens got out and took a dump in a pool of water, then the aliens left. The bacteria on the crap thrived in the primordial ooze and evolved into amoeba, which turned into less basic organisms which turned into the first creatures and then us long after the aliens species had died out. Imagine that

rednik · 07-06-2012 12:46PM

It has to be one of the most fascinating movies in a long time (flaws and all). I have seen it twice now and cannot wait for the blu ray to disect it even more. To think we have been busy watching and debating the merits of this movie and it is only being released in the States tomorrow.

Ridley Scott interview

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/ridley-scott-prometheus-interview/8232

mikhail · 07-06-2012 12:48PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Yes there's gaps in logic. Yes some of the execution feels off. And yes it's not as tense as Alien. Doesn't mean I didn't get alot out of it.

What's frustrating for me is to wait for the proverbial good science fiction movie, to actually see the potential of one on the screen, composed by one of the really great directors of this generation for visuals and art direction, and then to be disappointed by really ****ty writing.

jcsoulinger · 07-06-2012 01:03PM

Saw this last night, I really enjoyed it up until the last half an hour, It was very disappointing as the plot seemed to unravel. I rewatched Alien at the weekend and have to say that is a far superior film.

I have so many questions Im not sure where to start,

One thing thats really bugging me but is not a criticism is do we know why there space ships failed to launch?

PhiloCypher · 07-06-2012 01:11PM

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Saw this last night, I really enjoyed it up until the last half an hour, It was very disappointing as the plot seemed to unravel. I rewatched Alien at the weekend and have to say that is a far superior film.

I have so many questions Im not sure where to start,

One thing thats really bugging me but is not a criticism is do we know why there space ships failed to launch?

Well in the case of the one they were on there was obviously some sort of outbreak which then spread to the others, that's my reading of it anyways .

Psychedelic · 07-06-2012 01:12PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Mega long post

Nail on the head, post of the thread.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I've little doubt that thematically and stylistically The Dark Knight will blow it out of the water on every practical level, but give me a film that tries (and occasionally succeeds) in being distinctive and ambitious over dumb fun any day of the week.

Mickeroo wrote: »

TDK is the only big budget blockbuster I can think of in recent years that managed to address themes on the same level while still managing to be a truely compelling film. Its a shame, because there's still a lot to love in Prometheus.

I wonder did TDK and will the next Batman film get analysed like Prometheus. There was a lot of stupid and unrealistic things in TDK and that is hailed as one of the great movies of all time.

Themes in Batman? It's good guy vs bad guys, what else is there to it? To me the new Batman films are just like every other superhero film, "dumb fun" and nothing to think about or discuss later.

kowloon · 07-06-2012 01:25PM

stevenmu wrote: »

II think it's more likely that she is an android and referred to him as father because he built her (and I think the next film will see her android body being recovered by a "rescue mission").

Actually Scott went out of his way to show the maggots/worms crawling in a footprint. I wonder were the swimming snake/facehuggers that got Fifield and Milburn a result of these being infected with the goo.

I took both these points as a given. They went out of their way to get Theron out of the ship that was about to explode. I take this as providing a mushed up android memory of what happened or some rubbish like that.

johnny_ultimate · 07-06-2012 01:39PM

mikhail wrote: »

What's frustrating for me is to wait for the proverbial good science fiction movie, to actually see the potential of one on the screen, composed by one of the really great directors of this generation for visuals and art direction, and then to be disappointed by really ****ty writing.

To me the film seems to be creating four distinct camps:

a) Those who are willing to partially if not forgive then at least acknowledge the flaws in favour of the film's strengths and ambition
b) Those who are disappointed by the film's failed potential, and are less willing to forgive the script's failings, despite acknowledging there are things to like
(I consider a and b to be interconnected, just with positive / negative slants)
c) The franchise devotees, who either liked it or didn't
and finally...
d) The pedant

Dublin_Gunner · 07-06-2012 02:07PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To me the film seems to be creating four distinct camps:

a) Those who are willing to partially if not forgive then at least acknowledge the flaws in favour of the film's strengths and ambition
b) Those who are disappointed by the film's failed potential, and are less willing to forgive the script's failings, despite acknowledging there are things to like
(I consider a and b to be interconnected, just with positive / negative slants)
c) The franchise devotees, who either liked it or didn't
and finally...
d) The pedant

e) those who take the film for what it is. A superb looking sci-fi film the likes of which we haven't had in years, and understand it is not trying be an oscar-winning conversation filled bore-fest.

It has aliens, spaceships, explosions and good looking ladies in tight spandex.

I really fail to see the issues lol

PhiloCypher · 07-06-2012 02:19PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

To me the film seems to be creating four distinct camps:

a) Those who are willing to partially if not forgive then at least acknowledge the flaws in favour of the film's strengths and ambition
b) Those who are disappointed by the film's failed potential, and are less willing to forgive the script's failings, despite acknowledging there are things to like
(I consider a and b to be interconnected, just with positive / negative slants)
c) The franchise devotees, who either liked it or didn't
and finally...
d) The pedant

I'd liken it to the bible where you have

a) those who are willing to partially if not wholly forgive the book it's flaws in favor of its ambitious universe creating narrative.
b) those who are disappointed by the books failed potential, and are less willing to forgive its failings , despite acknowledging there are some nice parables in there.
c)The Evangelicals who pick and choose the bits they like from the old and the new testament to suit their arguments and
d)The sceptic.

Zubeneschamali · 07-06-2012 02:20PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

It has aliens, spaceships, explosions and good looking ladies

So does Battleship.

Mickeroo · 07-06-2012 02:22PM

Psychedelic wrote: »

Nail on the head, post of the thread.

I wonder did TDK and will the next Batman film get analysed like Prometheus. There was a lot of stupid and unrealistic things in TDK and that is hailed as one of the great movies of all time.

Sure there was, its a superhero film afterall, but there was no point where my suspension of disbelief felt jarred as it did in prometheus. I had no problem with unrealistic stuff in terms of physicality in prometheus, like Shaw running/getting thrown around after the surgery, in much the same way I had no problem with batman & rachel surviving the fall from the sky scraper. Its that the characters didn't behave in a fashion that was acceptable within that universe in some scenes, it was just bad writing, and thats the main thing that stopped prometheus being success imo. Don't get me wrong, I actually liked the film, at least it can sit along side the first 3 alien films, and it left enough threads hanging to make me hope its a financial success so we'll get that sequel.

Oh and there was heaps of debate on TDK iirc and I'm pretty sure there will be about TDKR too, its even more hyped than Prometheus was.

Psychedelic wrote: »

Themes in Batman? It's good guy vs bad guys, what else is there to it? To me the new Batman films are just like every other superhero film, "dumb fun" and nothing to think about or discuss later.

I could easily apply the same logic to any genre film. Sure, Prometheus is just a dumb monster movie with spaceships and explosions. TDK was a lot of things but dumb wasn't one of them. THere's plenty in it about human nature and the need to symbolise good and evil, societies constant struggle between order and chaos.

Mance Rayder · 07-06-2012 02:23PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So does Battleship.

Yes but Battleship has Rihanna which automatically makes it the worst movie since 50 cents get rich or die trying.

Zubeneschamali · 07-06-2012 02:28PM

CiscoStudent wrote: »

Yes but Battleship has Rihanna which automatically makes it the worst movie since 50 cents get rich or die trying.

What really made it bad was that Rihanna was the best thing in it.

jcf · 07-06-2012 02:33PM

So is the sequel confirmed or what ? are people just assuming so ?

Mickeroo · 07-06-2012 02:35PM

jcf wrote: »

So is the sequel confirmed or what ? are people just assuming so ?

I imagine it will hinge on how it does at the box office. i think its done pretty well on the international run this week?

One thing, a lot of people are talking about things being cleared up in a directors cut, I was under the impression that this is Scott's preferred cut?

rednik · 07-06-2012 02:42PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

I imagine it will hinge on how it does at the box office. i think its done pretty well on the international run this week?

One thing, a lot of people are talking about things being cleared up in a directors cut, I was under the impression that this is Scott's preferred cut?

I would imagine the blu ray will have many extras including new scenes not seen in the cinema. I hope it does to make it more coherent. Also should be interesting to listen to Scott's commentary after all the criticism so far.

Interesting review from Roger Ebert.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120606/REVIEWS/120609989

Fysh · 07-06-2012 02:45PM

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

e) those who take the film for what it is. A superb looking sci-fi film the likes of which we haven't had in years, and understand it is not trying be an oscar-winning conversation filled bore-fest.

It has aliens, spaceships, explosions and good looking ladies in tight spandex.

I really fail to see the issues lol

This thread has helped me pin down why I thought Prometheus was a good spectacle, but not a particularly good film (sci-fi or otherwise) while others think it's admirable sci-fi on the big screen.

I like science fiction as a genre, whether it's in prose, comics, a television serial or film form. And, put bluntly, the term "sci-fi" in TV and film means something that is in some ways very different to what it means in prose or comics, due to the costs of production and ensuing requirement to try and ensnare an audience by having certain "guaranteed" appeals.

If I judge Prometheus by the standards set by the likes of Clarke, Asimov, Reed, Banks & co., it falls short by some considerable way. If I judge it by the standards established purely in cinematic science fiction, it fares better. If I judge it by the standards established purely in widely-distributed theatrically-released science fiction, it fares better still.

Handsome Bob · 07-06-2012 02:46PM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Thematically, it's bountiful in its willingness to explore big ideas. Darwinisim, objectivism, spirituality, the very nature of scientific discovery and curiosity: this is not a shallow film.

And it barely scratches the surface on all of those themes. As the old Inception joke goes; we need to go deeper.

jcf · 07-06-2012 02:50PM

rednik wrote: »

I would imagine the blu ray will have many extras including new scenes not seen in the cinema. I hope it does to make it more coherent. Also should be interesting to listen to Scott's commentary after all the criticism so far.

Interesting review from Roger Ebert.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120606/REVIEWS/120609989

It could do with cutting some scenes too , or replacing them ... (epilogue and fight between that squid and engineer - in fact cut the squid out alltogether ) doubt it tho ... mind you Alien3 dir. cut did.

and regarding the review from Ebert, dismissed - he is obviously being paid by Fox to give it a good review, as far as I recall he gave Indiana Jones IV a good review.

bullvine · 07-06-2012 03:06PM

rednik wrote: »

It has to be one of the most fascinating movies in a long time (flaws and all). I have seen it twice now and cannot wait for the blu ray to disect it even more. To think we have been busy watching and debating the merits of this movie and it is only being released in the States tomorrow.

Ridley Scott interview

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/ridley-scott-prometheus-interview/8232

Having read that, gives me some home for the sequel, if they tie everything together, we may look back at 2 classic movies in a few years. I really like what he says about always having planned a sequel to basically explain it. I can probably live with the dumb characters now!

jcf · 07-06-2012 03:16PM

bullvine wrote: »

Having read that, gives me some home for the sequel, if they tie everything together, we may look back at 2 classic movies in a few years. I really like what he says about always having planned a sequel to basically explain it. I can probably live with the dumb characters now!

Hold your horses there!!!!

While it may be improved it can never be a classic !!!

rednik · 07-06-2012 03:22PM

jcf wrote: »

Hold your horses there!!!!

While it may be improved it can never be a classic !!!

A lot of people said the same when Alien and Blade Runner were released. I am not putting those films in the same bracket as Prometheus, just saying they were not well received at the time.

I saw them both on release and thought they were stunning, Prometheus I am not too sure yet.;)

Ray Palmer · 07-06-2012 03:27PM

rednik wrote: »

It has to be one of the most fascinating movies in a long time (flaws and all). I have seen it twice now and cannot wait for the blu ray to disect it even more. To think we have been busy watching and debating the merits of this movie and it is only being released in the States tomorrow.

Ridley Scott interview

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/ridley-scott-prometheus-interview/8232

I don't get why there is anything fascinating about it. Aliens as creators is a pretty standard story. The one thing is the suggestion that David is not happy with humans for the reason they created him. Much more interesting concepts in other films.
There is a much better twilight zone story where alien creators return to earth and are disappointed. Man of Earth is better too and that has a poor script and acting.
You need to watch more films or read some books if you class this as fascinating

marco_polo · 07-06-2012 03:57PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

I imagine it will hinge on how it does at the box office. i think its done pretty well on the international run this week?

One thing, a lot of people are talking about things being cleared up in a directors cut, I was under the impression that this is Scott's preferred cut?

Good chance it will show a decent profit I'd say, as you say the Internation opening has been brisk and the estimated budget is relatively frugal $130m when compared to the estimated budgets, for example, of Battleship, ($210m) Snow White ($170) , John Carter ($250m) or the Avengers ($220m).

For the moment he is going to say it was his preferred cut isn't he.

. For me it would have been better either as a shorter or longer film with some of the side plots cut out altogether or developed more fully. Hopefully there is plenty of footage left of the cutting room floor for the latter. Watching it unfold it just felt like they were trying to hit the 2 hour mark for some reason.

opinion guy · 07-06-2012 05:02PM

Mickeroo wrote: »

I imagine it will hinge on how it does at the box office. i think its done pretty well on the international run this week?

One thing, a lot of people are talking about things being cleared up in a directors cut, I was under the impression that this is Scott's preferred cut?

Maybe for now - but if they can sell another version down the line I'm sure he may change his mind

johnny_ultimate · 07-06-2012 05:21PM

jcf wrote: »

and regarding the review from Ebert, dismissed - he is obviously being paid by Fox to give it a good review, as far as I recall he gave Indiana Jones IV a good review.

To be fair to Ebert, he's a 'glass half full' sort of guy, who tends to be overly optimistic of pretty much everything (except The Raid and video games). He's earned that right, even if I just tend to look at his opinions as curios rather than definitive statements. I'd still trust his opinion as an honest one over 95% of other film journalists, though.

And if Fox paid off every critic who gave this a positive or at least cautiously optimistic review, then their coffers would be very empty indeed. Metacritic average actually seems to have jumped a few points since the American critics hopped on board.

Not that critical consensus really counts for anything these days, but I just think it's interesting to compare their reaction to that of the viewing public. Again, Mark Kermode's opining (that's my word of the day) probably hits the mark most IMO.

karma_ · 07-06-2012 06:22PM

marco_polo wrote: »

Good chance it will show a decent profit I'd say, as you say the Internation opening has been brisk and the estimated budget is relatively frugal $130m when compared to the estimated budgets, for example, of Battleship, ($210m) Snow White ($170) , John Carter ($250m) or the Avengers ($220m).

I thought you might have been joking with these numbers so I checked it out... I apologise for doubting, but that is absolutely unbelievable. I cannot get my head around the fact that every movie you listed here cost more that Prometheus, I couldn't even finish watching Battleship!

cambridge · 07-06-2012 06:26PM

Such a mediocre film.

For the money they spent on it, the amount of development time, the (apparent) pedigree of all involved it should have been much better.

For being part of the Alien franchise, it should have been much better.

If you ignore the budget, and pretend it has nothing to do with Alien, it's ok as a science fiction movie.

But the sheer amount of scientific and logical peculiarities I don't know how anyone could rate this highly. This is only so much suspension of disbelief you can do in one sitting.

I hope it fails miserably at the box office. I hope everyone associated with this film at the top never works again. I hope a proper team takes over the next film.

Tar.Aldarion · 07-06-2012 06:35PM

Really enjoyed the film for all of it's flaws, david was great.

What was with the mapping guy getting lost because they are scared of a dead body and freaking out over nothing at the scientist? Then they go back and SLEEP in that cave and don't give a **** about alien snakes...

I am not sure if the Engineers created aliens or were simply trying to recreate the alien species they had seen or something? They definitely had pictures of the xenomorphs already, so it;s not like that was the birth of the first one.

Prometheus *SPOILERS FROM POST 1538*

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Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538