Martin Cullen living the high life in Florida at our expense

listermint wrote: »

'if we need a bailout' we need a bailout, we also are paying back unsustainable and i would garner it illegal debts (unsecured)

This isnt about the bank debt. If we need a bailout which you think is better ? Higher interest ? Or lower interest ?

secondly if the foolish think that ratifying this treaty will do anything to divert the current course we are on they are more foolish than i had imagined.

Likewise for anyone who thinks a No vote would have changed anything. Calling others fools while making the same point yourself isnt really an effective argument.

This treaty will do nothing for the markets, it is merely gloss work dreamed up in the EU parliament to re-enforce rules that were never abided by in the first place.

A no vote would have done nothing for the markets. And the reason countries are in so much shít currently is partially because those rules were not abided by. We dont want other states following our lead into bankruptcy. We want stability across the eurozone. If it all comes crashing down then this treaty wont have mattered anyway but at least its an effort to do something.

The only way out of this is through alternate thinking and for germany to lay down some of its own nationalist banners and get back to the EU plan as it was designed. If not we are all doomed all of us.

If that is what needs to happen then it will happen but in the mean time we cannot afford to sit back and wait while we are up shít creek. If austerity is only the answer for short term stability then thats where we go. We wont be dictating European policy regardless.

Biggins wrote: »

So instead, lets sell our pride and right to self-government for a price.
Lets ignore the fact that austerity measures are not working, that France and even now Merkel has acknowledged this!
Lets ignore the fact that if we maintain further ability to self-government, that we might through our own steering, recover our own economy over time also - no, it easier instead to get the public to be compliant by scaring them into thinking that our new German led masters have all the answers and the chain to yank when we don't comply!

Lovely stuff!

If anyone sold us out it was FF. Yes its nice to have a whinge about it but there comes a time when we have to accept it happened and try to get out of this mess. Nows the time.

Hollande and Merkel dont rely on the Irish people to tell them which direction to go in. We are now the broke cousin at the edge of europe. We do what we need to do to get back on our feet. We cannot borrow from the markets, we need access to the ESM, we voted yes to access the ESM. Thats what it was about.

Biggins wrote: »

So instead, lets sell our pride and right to self-government for a price.
Lets ignore the fact that austerity measures are not working, that France and even now Merkel has acknowledged this!
Lets ignore the fact that if we maintain further ability to self-government, that we might through our own steering, recover our own economy over time also - no, it easier instead to get the public to be compliant by scaring them into thinking that our new German led masters have all the answers and the chain to yank when we don't comply!

Lovely stuff!

I have a simple question. Can someone who posts this kind of stuff please explain to me how Ireland can could theoretically continue sans "austerity". In other words, how it could continue to spend more than it takes in for an extended period of time. ( Obviously, from basic economics principles, it could occur from outsiders investing into the country...but ignoring that for the minute)

Think of it in terms of a household. Where the household spends more than is coming in. It can only continue to do so by taking on some loans. That's fine at the start, but when you keep going back for more loans, eventually the lender will say "hang on a minute".

It's a genuine question. It's not a licence for people to say "rabble rabble bank debt, not ours blah blah". Just how do you think it would be sustainable to continue in a situation where you are beholden to whatever lenders to give you the money to continue to spend more than you have?

It's a bit like that old adage - the easiest way to get a loan is to be able to prove that you don't need it!

Biggins wrote: »

Austerity is not working - or will work on its own!

As for "dictating", thats what the people of Ireland are going to get more of via the Dail or the German led EU, if they like it or lump it!

So Austerity isnt working, bail out, bail out is it ? Whats our fall back plan if we want to avoid austerity seeing as we are hinged on what Germany decide as long as we remain in the Euro ? Withdraw and re-print the punt ?

Nobody is dictating anything. People have voted for a common policy to try and pick the best path forward. But seeing as we are all traitorous fools to you I'm not sure it matters what I say.

listermint wrote: »

using the term stability is the foolish part. It has done nothing and will do nothing for this so called stability, the markets dont care.

additionally we have to pony up billions straight away, mean while spain and it looks like italy will have raided this so called stability fund regardless.

So pray tell where is this stability coming from?....



Anyway we are off topic here, that being said the pensions are too high and too ring fenced for the quality of governance we received from these scheisters.

Stability comes from knowing we can access the ESM for funding and other member states are restricted from allowing their books to get out of hand.

I agree regards the pensions I see no reason at all why this numpty should be living it up in Florida on 120k a year of tax payer money.

Biggins wrote: »

Really - so the boys and girls visiting us checking our books every once in a while for the EU and then telling us to do stuff, is not dictating to us?

Right.

We will have to agree to disagree in that one.

We have signed up to common policy in the treaty and certain terms in the bailout packages.

Thats not dictating to us its something we have agreed to. Germany is a huge player in Europe, whether we are borrowing or not as long as we are in Europe they will dictate certain things in relation to how Europe evolves.

But its not dictating when we have voted to abide by certain things which they have too in this treaty dont forget, the terms are the same for all.

Biggins wrote: »

If we agreed to something or not, orders coming down from above - is still orders!

...Unless I am completely stupid!

Your saying Germany is dictating Irish policy by proposing (or heading the proposal) of a treaty that can only be ratified by Ireland with a referendum.

I dont understand how a group of states agreeing to abide by common policy is one state dictating to the rest. We did not have to ratify this treaty, we as a people chose to. I understand you may not have been one who did but you cant call everyone else fools and traitors and refuse to accept their decision or the consequences of that decision.

Dexter, where are ya when we need ya?