Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538

Trine · 01-06-2012 05:52PM

Creature wrote: »

My understanding was that Weyland wanted an alien specimen to take back and study. Remember David seemed very nonchalant and somewhat happy when discussing the "pregnancy" with Shaw. Also remember it is "the company" we're talking about, the very unscrupulous company who constantly want to infect and study people in the later films. Or if you mean why Holloway in particular? I don't know. Maybe because he was a dickhead toward David for most of their scenes and if you've got to to it to someone, why not him.

But he had a specimen...he had the black goo. Why not just bring that back to earth and experiment on animals with it? Why have to go through the hassle of infecting somebody? I don't believe he knew that they would have sex and impregnate the female doctor with an alien specimen...that is too convoluted, that was not guaranteed to happen. But he could 100% guarantee bringing the black goo sample back. Still can't figure out why he poisoned him, other than out of sheer curiosity about what it would do.

Sad Professor · 01-06-2012 06:06PM

My take was that David had his own agenda re infecting Holloway. I think he knew what was going to happen when Weyland went to talk to his gods. He didn't know exactly what the goo would do to Holloway/Shaw, but he had a pretty good idea. And he knew that was what killed the engineers and would kill them again when they released the last one from stasis.

Creature · 01-06-2012 06:25PM

But he couldn't have known what if anything the black goo would do so I think he needed to do field research on it.
Anyway I'm not saying he knew she'd get pregnant, I think was just a pleasant by product of his experiment.

PerrinV2 · 01-06-2012 06:33PM

So what was up at the start of the film with the engineer drinking the goo? i dunno if it was the goo we saw later in the film

Somnus · 01-06-2012 06:37PM

Just back from seeing it and abolsutley loved it. First of all, the obvious: It looks fantastic. The effects, sets and costumes all look great. I saw it in 3D and I enjoyed it. Didn't have any problems with obstrusive, over the top 3D effects. I thought it looked good.

I think pacing in a film is very important, and I thought this nailed it completely. I really enjoyed the intro and build up to arrival on the planet. I thought the sense of exploration as they explored the tunnels was really well done. I just let myself get sucked in as part of the party.

Now onto the spoilery bits.
I think the movie really nailed it in terms of terror/horror and not just cheap scares

The first two deaths (biologist and geologist) were great I thought. Drawn out, graphic, and basically just horrific, but without being overly gory etc.
The surgical scene is obviously a big one

I thought it was brilliant. Totally felt the sense of urgency that shaw had. Imagine knowing that thing was inside you! It was tense waiting for the machine to prepare to cut, all the time with the alien possibly about to burst out of her. Bloody,brutal and terrifying. Excellent.

I could go on, but overall I think the film just really nailed everything. Can't think of anything I didn't really like at the minute. I just got sucked in from start to finish.

By the way, I was wondering about David's intentions infecting Holloway. At first I thought maybe he thought it might help Weyland live longer or something. But I think he really just wanted to satisfy his own curiousity. He clearly doesn't care too much about people other than Weyland.

Tusky · 01-06-2012 06:41PM

PerrinV2 wrote: »

So what was up at the start of the film with the engineer drinking the goo? i dunno if it was the goo we saw later in the film

I believe that was earth and he had been left behind. He killed himself and accidentally created human life. I could be wrong though - that's just what I took from it.

Creature · 01-06-2012 06:45PM

Tusky wrote: »

I believe that was earth and he had been left behind. He killed himself and accidentally created human life. I could be wrong though - that's just what I took from it.

I figured that he deliberately did it so he could create life or at least start the evolutionary process, the whole way he did it looked very ceremonial as if it were planned. Though the point of them wanting to destroy mankind would make more sense if it were accidental, cleaning up the mess so to speak.

david75 · 01-06-2012 07:10PM

opinion guy wrote: »

Yeah very uncomfortable. Not helped by the rain outside after

Very much agree. Especially Dr Hollywood. Yeah lets all take our helmets offf YAY!!!!! :rolleyes:

That was the point - this was how the Alien was created in the first place. What I couldn't figure out was were the primordial Alien reptile thingies a result of the Engineers weapons gone wrong, or were they some other alien race

3D transfer ?!?! This was shot entirely in 3D. Also are you INSANE?!?!?!?! The 3D was simply mindblowing. I absolutely loved it. Its the most visually stunning thing I've seen since Avatar - and actually I think its better than Avatar. Also its dark, because they were on an alien planet and indoors.

People - if you don't see this in 3D you are simply not seeing the same film.

Yes. Very much so.

there were no free glasses of koolaid at the showing i went to. Bugger.

L'prof · 01-06-2012 07:15PM

opinion guy wrote: »

People - if you don't see this in 3D you are simply not seeing the same film.

I don't buy it and no thanks. 3D has ruined enough viewing experiences for me already, it needs more work before I'll ever go back to it!

Trine · 01-06-2012 07:18PM

Tusky wrote: »

I believe that was earth and he had been left behind. He killed himself and accidentally created human life. I could be wrong though - that's just what I took from it.

I'm in two minds as to whether it was earth or not. There was something non-earth-like about it...I think it demonstrated how they seed life or terraform a planet (deliberately), but it wasn't necessarily planet earth.

I say I don't think it is earth because...if this opening scene showed the beginning of human life, it means it was set millions of years ago. If we evolved from this Engineer's seed, his root DNA, how would we still be 100% DNA match as is stated later in the movie? Evolution is essentially the mutation of DNA would I be right in saying? If simple life began with the Engineer's DNA, we would only retain a small % of the original DNA as we evolved, surely?

Trine · 01-06-2012 07:25PM

Dr.Poca wrote: »

By the way, I was wondering about David's intentions infecting Holloway. At first I thought maybe he thought it might help Weyland live longer or something. But I think he really just wanted to satisfy his own curiousity. He clearly doesn't care too much about people other than Weyland.

It just doesn't add up that it was purely curiosity that he would harm (and attempt to kill, really) two crew members. He is a programmed robot after all. I know the Alien franchise has a thing for androids that go a bit barmy, but I don't think that was the case. I think he was following orders, from Weyland, although why he would want Halloway infected is unclear to me, as he surely could not have known what the effects of the goo were. Maybe that's why he ordered David to poison Halloway, to see what effect it would have on a human. But I just can't see David doing that of his own accord.

BarackPyjama · 01-06-2012 07:27PM

Okay, here's my opinion. Personally, I thought it was fantastic! By no means perfect but I really, really enjoyed it. Despite what people seem to be debating,

this was a blatant prequel to Alien... I mean how can it not be? The Space Jockey from Alien is explained, the xenomorph that bursts from the Engineer's chest at the end, etc. It's a different movie indeed but it's a prequel to Alien and explains the origin of Alien/Aliens in no uncertain terms. Not even a shade of grey for me. I think that's one of the reasons that I enjoyed it so much.

Having said that, it left me with as many questions as it answered.

What's the story with the engineers? Who are they, what are their origins and where do they come from? What are the ampules? Are they synthetic or some kind of natural, biological weapon? How does their morphology work? What's going to happen to Shaw when she goes to find them? Does she have enough provisions on board to last until she finds them? So many questions. Will there be a sequel to explain it all? Arrrrgh!

I saw it in 3D. Personally, I'd have preferred to see it in 2D. I stand by that. Despite being shot in 3D, it did nothing for me and kind of got in the way a bit. Then, maybe I was sitting a bit too close to the screen. My advice: see it in 2D.

A very different movie to Alien/Aliens but I was truly intrigued and really enjoyed it. I'd love to see a follow up and I'd like it to elaborate more on what this movie started. Provided that can be done stylishly and convincingly enough.

If you're an Alien nerd, I'd highly recommend it. Then again, I think maybe I'm in a minority?

genericguy · 01-06-2012 07:40PM

can't see it till next week, but can't stay away from this thread.

must....not.....click.....spoilers.....

KilOit · 01-06-2012 07:59PM

Just back! lots of questions, dying to read peoples thoughts on it. Didn't feel Alien at all really but still enjoyed it

Trine · 01-06-2012 08:28PM

I really enjoyed this movie, but the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Maybe I picked some things up wrong. Can anybody clear these up for me?!

1.

As I said before, the opening scene makes no sense if it is the "beginning of humankind", unless the writers of the film have completely throw out any idea of evolution, which is unlikely since the link made between Humans and Engineers is DNA. Our DNA would not be 100% identical!

2.

The cave paintings point to the planet LV-223. Why? Apparently it's just a research station, not the Engineer's home world. Why would humans be directed to go there?

3.

It appears there was an outbreak aboard the Engineer's ship, that killed all the crew, with something "bursting" from them. We are told there are other ships on this world, and surely the home world would have learnt about this. Why was no ship sent to clear up the mess? Where did the chest-bursters go? Why were the bodies piled up?

4.

The Engineer's seem to want to eradicate life on earth, the life they seemingly created. The ship in the movie failed, because before it got a chance to deliver it's cargo to earth, it was overrun. Again, why could another ship not complete the mission? They only had a couple thousand years...

5.

We are told these creatures died thousands of years ago (when the doctor takes a sample to determine the age of the first Engineer's corpse). That means the original plan to destroy life on earth was conceived a few thousand years ago. At that time the most advanced human weapon was probably the spear! Did the Engineer's REALLY need a biological weapon to wipe out their mistake on earth?

6.

Black Goo causes the victim to go crazy/mutate, the original intent of the liquid I presume. Possible unintended effect of an infected person impregnating a humanoid results in a face hugger type alien...that alien lays an egg in the victim to create a Xenomorph. Ok, kind of makes sense...if the movie is judged on it's own. But then it doesn't...the "cobra" alien seemed to impregnate the geologist but no chest burst. Once you start trying to tie it into Alien (forgetting about any other Alien movie) I can't see a clear line of how the Alien evolves.

So many other questions, but I'll leave it at that! The fan-boy in me doesn't want to call these "plot-holes", but...

Morlar · 01-06-2012 08:38PM

Visually it was impressive, however I did not find it even remotely scary.

johnny_ultimate · 01-06-2012 09:26PM

What a fascinating yet immensely frustrating film.

Firstly, I was delighted to see actual ideas proposed and explored in a blockbuster. For all its flaws, Ill take something as ambitious and eccentric as this over the Avengers anyday.

A narrative examining Darwinism vs Creationism, spirituality, the selfish gene, the very nature of scientific discovery... I suspect it might be a none too subtle Christian allegory underneath it all, but a plethora of varied ideas nonetheless.

let us raise a glass to sci fi that has the capacity for big ideas, especially one disguised as a Hollywood genre pic.

Atmospherically (a CO2 rich environment, notably) its odd, creepy and mysterious. The middle act is an eccentric triumph of pulp thrills and surrealism

(the med pod sequence is just great)

. The lead performances are great even if the support isnt. My Noomi Rapace fandom remains unchallenged, and Fassbender oozes cold menace.

Mostly, its a visual treat, if a mixed success at times. I thought the futuristic stuff was trying too hard to be slick and expensive, often lusting for the grimy industrialism of Alien over the forced neon hues here (as dazzling as the effects were). But the alien stuff felt for lack of a better word truly alien and mysterious. That said,

tentacle lad was a step too far and Im not sure what to make of penis monster

A few flaws constantly threaten the film though. Im sorry but the dialogue is blunt, forced and clunky throughout. Appalling writing, frankly. The music is uninspired and occasionally irritating. The third act struggles with keeping the considered momentum. It veers too far into silliness at some crucial moments. And it has the single worst aged makeup I've ever, ever seen.

But mostly Im going to have to disagree with other posters and say its not ambiguous enough. Too many answers, if anything, and over explanations of points that to me anyway were abundantly clear.

The epilogue is a real clunker, and an awkward reminder of how much better the more subtle hints at the film's legacy were

Still: this is an eccentric and fascinating if deeply flawed beast. It has few precedents in Hollywood, and it has more ideas than any big budget film of recent times. It may be a mess, but its often gloriously so. Not a masterpiece, then, but a deeply individual and unusual experiment the ultimately hits a little more regularly than it misses.

Handsome Bob · 01-06-2012 09:54PM

Good watch but ultimately underwhelmed.

Firstly, I don't think that the character development is necessarily poor, the story just lacks in dramatic weight and you never feel that the stakes are high.

I felt more for Kirk's father's sacrifice in Star Trek than I did for Janek's sacrifice in this film and that really is shocking, given that one character only had a few minutes screentime whereas the other had the best part of 2 hours.

I thought that a good few things went unanswered such as

The murial to the xenomorph and the special green lit stone in comparison to the other specimens being kept in standard jars.
Engineer and what his beef was against the humans.
What was it that decimated the space jockeys.
Who were the original earth dwellers that the jockeys obliterated only for them to reseed the planet with human life.
What was Shaw's reasoning that there was a higher form of life than the jockeys.
What made the jars go crazy and overflow with black goo.
Why exactly did the jockeys create the humans only to seemingly hate them?

Probably all things that will be answered in a sequel but TBH, Ridley's getting on in years, and he's giving priority to a BR sequel right now.

I also didn't think it was scary which was very disappointing. I think a lot of this has to do with the amount they gave away in the trailers though, if I went in blind I probably would have found some key scenes more unsettling.

Bizarre soundtrack too with the same perky theme being played throughout.

But as I said, I enjoyed it. Fassbender great. Rapace great ignoring the dodgy accent. Some great black comedy at play at times too. Definitely worth the admission fee, but I've no desire to see it again. I think 3 stars is harsh, 4 stars is generous, so I'll sit on the fence and say 3.5 stars.

PerrinV2 · 01-06-2012 10:05PM

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I thought that a good few things went unanswered such as
What made the jars go crazy and overflow with black goo.

Didn't they say they had changed the humidity when they entered the chamber,maybe that caused it

Deisler · 01-06-2012 10:23PM

5/10. Style over substance.

johnny_ultimate · 01-06-2012 10:27PM

Thought the film had plenty of substance, to be perfectly honest. The overall plot may have been a bit thin, but thematically it provided plenty of food for thought. I'd actually argue it has much more substance than Alien or Aliens ever had. That's not to say they're worse films - overall, they flow better in a variety of important ways - but Prometheus may just be the most intellectually curious big budget blockbuster in years.

cursai · 01-06-2012 10:30PM

Good god i'm disappointed. The overuse of music during scenes. The bad dialogue especially from shaws character.

The suicide run at the end with Idris Elba, reminded me of Transformers.

How come when they crashed their ship into the engineers it caused massive damage to its hull but when it fell to the ground. it stayed intact and didnt crumble.

What was the point of Guy Pierces character to the overall story and also Charlize Theron's

The attempt at character development that suddenly stops.

Why didnt the two women stop and run to the side when the ship was rolling after them.

No answers were given as to the engineers overall intentions, leaving room for a sequel and further cash in

The character and dialogue from the red haired mohican chap was atrocious.

Why did he get snotty with Shaw.

How come the equipment is unforgiveably more advanced than the original Alien(s) universe.
The 3-D is baaaaaaad and an annoying distraction.
The whole thing smells of a cash in and the start of a new trilogy cash in. Like Stars Wars The Phantom Menace.

On the plus side the effects were good. Fassbender is convincing and eery.
2/5 A below average but well funded sci fi flick. Too much going on and no answers.

A_Sober_Paddy · 01-06-2012 10:35PM

Fassbender was amazing...very like Hal from 2001

Somnus · 01-06-2012 10:36PM

Trine wrote: »

If we evolved from this Engineer's seed, his root DNA, how would we still be 100% DNA match as is stated later in the movie? Evolution is essentially the mutation of DNA would I be right in saying? If simple life began with the Engineer's DNA, we would only retain a small % of the original DNA as we evolved, surely?

To be honest I think that was just a classic case of bad science in a movie. I thought that straight away. But decided it's something I should just let go. Most people aren't gonna have a background in genetics and question it.

Trine wrote: »

It just doesn't add up that it was purely curiosity that he would harm (and attempt to kill, really) two crew members. He is a programmed robot after all. I know the Alien franchise has a thing for androids that go a bit barmy, but I don't think that was the case. I think he was following orders, from Weyland, although why he would want Halloway infected is unclear to me, as he surely could not have known what the effects of the goo were. Maybe that's why he ordered David to poison Halloway, to see what effect it would have on a human. But I just can't see David doing that of his own accord.

I think David was programmed to care about Weyland alone. Outside that he's an advanced AI who clearly has a priority for learning (watching the movies and learning new languages at the beginning. I felt his cold contempt (or rather apathy) for the other humans was quite clear. He knows he's better than them in a way I think, and so has no problem deciding to experiment on them. Weyland clearly only cares about achieving his own goals

On a seperate note
I

liked that there wasn't a massively concrete answer to what happened to the Engineers or where they came from, what their intentions were etc. It adds mystery and makes you form your own ideas.
I was glad that they at least had Shaw question why they would want to destroy what they created (Earth). That was bugging me, and I'm quite happy with them acknowledging that as otherwise I would have seen it as a plothole. Don't care that it wasn't explained so much.

Bullseye1 · 01-06-2012 10:42PM

I loved it. Not as good as Alien but better than Aliens IMO. Some of the characters did not work and the music score did not make sense in places. 3D was useless. I think I'll give it another viewing in 2D.

Rubber_Soul · 01-06-2012 10:46PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Definitely waiting for the DVD now.

No I'd definitely see it in the cinema as visually it is stunning.

Duggy747 · 01-06-2012 10:57PM

Good film which I thoroughly enjoyed though it was quite flawed the more I think about it and disappointed. Not disappointed in that it was bad, it's far from a bad film, but just that sooooo much more could have been achieved with this in terms of monster designs, characters, and the story (It had elements of greatness).

So many characters were just meat fodder for death, can't even remember the face of any one of them and they were quickly killed off from Fifield's rampage which had some really dodge editing.

The crashing of the ship was corny. The 2 guys who stayed with the captian were sure happy to die, didn't think for a second about it and just delivered cheesy dialogue to each other.

Vickers was just discarded away with waaaay too quickly. All the time she had on screen just to be killed like that left me hollow.

Nobody gave a shìt that Fifield and Milburn were lost & stuck in an alien tomb after everyone else legged it out of the place, nobody monitored them or kept tabs on them at all despite their location and footage from their cameras were being streamed to the ship. That bugged me.

While the film looked spectacular, the monster designs left alot to be desired. The squid was just that.............a squid with extra teeth even though it was the proto-facehugger. The proto-xenomoph's face made me instantly think of one of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies which completely lost it's effect on me.

:pac:

Rapace was really good, though her accent did vary but not bad enough to distract you, but this film really belongs to Fassbender.

He is the core of this movie and he carries it excellently as you question everything about him from his attitude and reactions to those around him and his motives. He owns absolutely every scene as you find yourself paying more attention to what he's up to with a continous suspicious eye than anything else.

One of the more enjoyable sci-fi movies of recent years, though also mind-numbingly annoying too :pac:

opinion guy · 01-06-2012 11:02PM

Trine wrote: »

But he had a specimen...he had the black goo. Why not just bring that back to earth and experiment on animals with it? Why have to go through the hassle of infecting somebody? I don't believe he knew that they would have sex and impregnate the female doctor with an alien specimen...that is too convoluted, that was not guaranteed to happen. But he could 100% guarantee bringing the black goo sample back. Still can't figure out why he poisoned him, other than out of sheer curiosity about what it would do.

Weyland only had days to live. The whole point of the mission was the Weyland wanted the Engineers to save him. They simply stated this in the film - no mystery there. Therefore we can surmise that David was experimenting in order to find out what the black goo did in hopes he could use if to save Weyland....(Smither's ???? :pac:)

david75 wrote: »

there were no free glasses of koolaid at the showing i went to. Bugger.

No clue what you are on about tbh

Trine wrote: »

I'm in two minds as to whether it was earth or not. There was something non-earth-like about it...I think it demonstrated how they seed life or terraform a planet (deliberately), but it wasn't necessarily planet earth.

I say I don't think it is earth because...if this opening scene showed the beginning of human life, it means it was set millions of years ago. If we evolved from this Engineer's seed, his root DNA, how would we still be 100% DNA match as is stated later in the movie? Evolution is essentially the mutation of DNA would I be right in saying? If simple life began with the Engineer's DNA, we would only retain a small % of the original DNA as we evolved, surely?

Movie got the science wrong. There were several biologically ridiculous things in the movie. Not the least of which was animating the severed head by 'tricking the neurons into thinking they were still alive' or some such nonsense. Also how did they know to stick their probe in the something something gyrus they talked about in order to do this ? In a never before seen species!?!?! I enjoyed the movie -but there are science holes many miles wide. I chose to forgive them. But Scott needs to hire smarter science consultants in future

Hrududu · 02-06-2012 12:00AM

I stayed away from all the hype and was looking forward to it but I left feeling disappointed. About an hour in I realised it just wasn't going to be the film I'd hoped it would be. For me a big problem was that I just didn't care about any of the characters. The only one that was any way engaging was David. The rest were either annoying or bland.

I seemed to spend the whole film thinking 'wait, what?' So much of it made no sense. Characters did things without any motivation, then nothing was mentioned about it again.

I'll spoiler the specifics:
Spoiler 1:

I have no idea what the deal was with David. Nobody had any idea what they would find on the planet. But he seemed to have more information than everyone else. It was almost like he was programmed with a command:

IF
Some weird sh!t is happening
THEN
Get right in there, bring specimens back, and em sure infect a crewmate to see what happens. Pick the one you like least...infect with what? Oh we don't know yet because we know nothing about what you're going to see, but if there's infecty stuff there then do some infecting.
ELSE
Watch Lawrence of Arabia and redo roots

Spoiler 2:

The Space Jockeys plan is also confusing. I think the timeline was:
1. Go to Earth and kill everyone
2. Change your mind, for some reason, and decide not to kill everyone
3. Drink some goo and jump in a river so that humankind is created from you
4. Paint some murals on walls all over the world
5. Or is that make contact with humans all over the world who then paint their own murals of you
6. But the humans didn't exist yet
7. Make sure the murals point to the planet you use for creating weapons.
8. This will mean that the humans (that you created) can find it.
9. But while you're waiting go back to the planet and build some more weapons so that you can go to Earth and kill everyone.

I mean, my brain hurts. That makes no sense. And how did Shaw figure that they had changed their mind about killing humans? She came out with it near the end but I've no idea where she got that idea. It was like the captain deciding that this wasn't their home planet, it was a planet they used for developing weapons. Ok. He just presented this as if it was a fact and not a theory, and the rest of the film just went along with it. Down to Shaw going off looking for the home planet in the end. The home planet she has no way of knowing exists. For all she knows they all lived on the other side of the planet/moon.

Spoiler 3:

So did the space jockeys create the goo? Did they create the goo that turns into worms that turns into snakes that jump into your mouth? Or did they get infected another way?

And how did those Aliens work? Worms>Snakes>Mouth, did they then pop out of their chests in a different form than we're used to seeing?

Because they seemed to work differently for humans.

Biologist>Snake>Mouth = Dead
Geologist>Acid>Face = Being able to bend his legs over his head, distorted head, crazy.
Charlie>Tiny Worm in drink>Into eye = Veiny face, looks like he's going to burst before he gets set on fire.

Is the reaction Charlie had the same one the decapitated alien had?

Spoiler 4:

The alien we know and love. So is that a result of...deep breath:
Tiny worm in drink>into eye>sexy time>demon baby>demon baby down space jockey throat = xenomorph?

This seems to suggest that this sequence is what created the alien from the original film. But earlier in Prometheus we see a mural/sculpture of the xenomorph so it clearly already exists.

And why would the space jockeys have a big picture of it in their ship?

That makes it sound like I hated it, I didn't. I just felt it could and should have been a lot better. And it gave me one of the biggest laughs.

When Shaw realised she had an alien inside her she went running to the magic surgery machine. There was an amazing second where I genuinely though the scene was going to play out like this:

Machine: Please describe the procedure you want performed.
Shaw: ABORTION!!!!
Machine: You have chosen *slight change in voice* abortion *revert to normal voice* Please step into the machine and await the start of the procedure.

senor incognito · 02-06-2012 12:02AM

Just saw it tonight. What I loved about Alien was the grumpy, bitchy crew were heroic but made sense as people and the monster/alien life-form made sense as a biological parasite (behaving much like many do in nature)-it was a bit of a stretch that it grew so quickly, but not much.
In this one, so much more stretching demanded of the viewer. The people don't really make sense and the aliens

(both types)

certainly don't

until the epilogue,- which must compete with Darth Vader's "Noooooooo!" for the dumbest round-up ever.

Probably not a lot you can do with a story that everybody knows the end of, but Sheesh! Stay away from the big questions if you can't demonstrate even a basic understanding of evolution and how it works.

Prometheus *SPOILERS FROM POST 1538*

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Prometheus SPOILERS FROM POST 1538