Ancient Aliens

kylith · 26-05-2012 11:45am #1

.. or possibly "How Important are Semantics?"

OH has been watching a lot of Ancient Aliens recently. At first I was a bit concerned that I was going to have to ditch him, but he swears that he doesn't believe anything being said; he finds it interestingly plausible. He also was at pains to point out that none of the experts on the show said that these things had happened but that they could have happened, given what we currently know about ancient civilisations. I maintain that they're saying that they believed that these aliens visited earth, and that it amounts to claiming that they actually did.

I like to watch it with Google open so that I can provide on-the-spot rebuttals, and the entire show makes me wish I could reach into the telly and throttle the so-called experts until they provide reputable sources for their claims. They seem to give our ancient ancestors very little credit for skills like stone working, haulage, or architecture, instead maintaining that building something like a pyramid would be impossible without the ability to levitate rocks (which would be alien technology) while apparently never thinking that ramps or a huge workforce could have something to do with these 'impossible' tasks, or that carving statues would be '50 years' work for a man', while never once seeming to think that that would make it a year's work for 50 men.

Have you ever watched Ancient Aliens? Do you find it entertaining? Plausible? Does it anger you?

Myrddin · 27-05-2012 5:08pm

kylith wrote: »

They seem to give our ancient ancestors very little credit for skills like stone working, haulage, or architecture, instead maintaining that building something like a pyramid would be impossible without the ability to levitate rocks (which would be alien technology) while apparently never thinking that ramps or a huge workforce could have something to do with these 'impossible' tasks, or that carving statues would be '50 years' work for a man', while never once seeming to think that that would make it a year's work for 50 men.

Not to mention the size of their whips

To me, it's all wishful thinking. Mankind has the ability to think & adapt around problems. If the Pharaoh of Egypt wants a huge Pyramid built, it's gonna get built aliens or no aliens.

I also find it odd that the Bible can recount in great detail events that happened >2000 years ago, & many people widely accept such stories. Yet, there's nothing at all written in history that I know of, that states specifically that alien visitors from other planets visited us. The whole thing is just speculation.

Also, this guy does my t*ts in big time, an absolute knob end if there was ever one

kylith · 29-05-2012 1:47pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Not to mention the size of their whips

I don't know about the whips, but I know that they weren't slaves. They once went on strike for more makeup, which wouldn't be something slaves would do, I suspect.

To me, it's all wishful thinking. Mankind has the ability to think & adapt around problems. If the Pharaoh of Egypt wants a huge Pyramid built, it's gonna get built aliens or no aliens.

Very true. If God-on-Earth wants it done, it'll get done. The programme makes me wonder how many of those 'experts' have ever taken time off from going 'it can't be done', and actually gotten 2000 people together to try to do it. 'Dolmens have to be alien, because they couldn't have lifted a capstone weighing 10 tonnes', well, they had horses, which can pull about a tonne each, a load of log rollers, and more than enough dirt to build a ramp. It's really making me want to get a load of students and some ropes; see how hard it'd be.

I also find it odd that the Bible can recount in great detail events that happened >2000 years ago, & many people widely accept such stories. Yet, there's nothing at all written in history that I know of, that states specifically that alien visitors from other planets visited us. The whole thing is just speculation.

That's another thing about it that gets on my tits: "If we assume that the bible is true then..." "If we assume that ancient Mesopotamian legends are true..." Why the hells are you assuming it's true when there's no evidence? "Many cultures have legends of people coming from the sky, so it must be true" Ah, but there are only two places where gods can come from really; the sky or underground. Those 'obviously alien' statues look like stylised humans to me.

The latest one we watched had vitrified forts in it. "It'd take temperatures of 1000C to do that, it would have to have been lasers, which would have been alien, so it was aliens". They may not have had lasers, buddy boy, but they did have the knowledge of smelting iron and glazing pottery, so they knew all about getting and maintaining high temperature. Not to mention the fact that they could have had 'Greek Fire', a mixture of pitch, phosphorus, sulphur, and other chemicals which burns very hot and is practically impossible to extinguish.

Also, this guy does my t*ts in big time, an absolute knob end if there was ever one

That pic has made watching Ancient Aliens much more enjoyable for me, thanks :pac:

I'm watching an antidote to it now - Terry Jones showing things that the Romans, Greeks, Chinese et al invented and developed thousands of years ago.

dyer · 01-06-2012 2:47am

as an avid believer in ufo's, i'm not quite sure what to make of the whole ancient alien debacle myself.. but who knows? its an interesting thought to ponder. there are documented references of flying objects in the sky, hundreds of years before humans ever invented the first plane let alone left the ground.. so who knows what was going on, or how the people of previous ages might have depicted those experiences, but to to state any of that definitively is just nonsense really.. right? but in terms of conscious intelligent lifeforms on earth, we really do take the biscuit don't we? so maybe.. just maybe.. something came along that helped us along the way

i'd like to keep an open mind about it.

Sindri · 01-06-2012 3:10am

I don't believe it but the vague hypothesis of extra-terrestrials influencing mankind in some way is very interesting to contemplate.

Myrddin · 01-06-2012 10:20am

dyer wrote: »

there are documented references of flying objects in the sky, hundreds of years before humans ever invented the first plane let alone left the ground.. so who knows what was going on

There's also references to Gods, Demons, Monsters, Fairies, & all sorts of mythological creatures...look at the Greek Gods for example. A huge amount of literature detailing the culture & society of the Greek Gods, yet today, they're all but forgotten. And that's just the Greeks, there's many many others...Norse, Egyptian, Asian, Indian Gods & mythos, the list is endless.

If we are to take ancient references of Aliens seriously, surely we must also take their other references seriously too & not just the ones we want to be real?

kylith · 01-06-2012 12:33pm

EnterNow wrote: »

There's also references to Gods, Demons, Monsters, Fairies, & all sorts of mythological creatures...look at the Greek Gods for example. A huge amount of literature detailing the culture & society of the Greek Gods, yet today, they're all but forgotten. And that's just the Greeks, there's many many others...Norse, Egyptian, Asian, Indian Gods & mythos, the list is endless.

If we are to take ancient references of Aliens seriously, surely we must also take their other references seriously too & not just the ones we want to be real?

The AA guys claim, sorry, suggest (stongly) that they were all aliens. Personally I think that they're seriously underestimating people's propensity for exaggeration, misinformation, aggrandizement, and downright lying. If a legend says that City X, which is built of giant rocks, was made by God because only a god would be able to move rocks that big I'd interpret that as the denizens saying "Hey, City Y, you'd better not mess with us because we have God on our side". No-one is going to say "It took 50 years and damn near killed the lot of us. Would you like us to show you how you can look this cool?"

The only thing I'm willing to concede to the AA crowd is that aliens is a more plausible explanation than gods. It still raises huge questions though, like why were they here? Where did they go? If they were spending a lot of time here why did they stop visiting? If they haven't stopped visiting, as these guys would have us believe, in their UFOs why aren't they communicating with us like they did with our ancestors? The AA crowd keep going on about how they want to communicate, but aren't crop circles, 'just hovering there', and abducting red necks then wiping their memories piss poor ways of communicating?

Myrddin · 01-06-2012 12:48pm

kylith wrote: »

The only thing I'm willing to concede to the AA crowd is that aliens is a more plausible explanation than gods.

Agreed.

Arthur C Clarke's third law - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." To primitive man, any intervention by an advanced race, could only have been interpreted as divine intervention, as opposed to something rational.

gillad · 02-06-2012 1:32pm

Has anybody read "The Thiaooba Prophesy"?Click on the link below and you can read it for free.

Its supposed to be a true story about a man abducted by aliens, brought to their planet and given a message for the earth.Its more like science fiction but its a great read if you keep in the back of your mind that it could be true.He says the earth was populated by humans from other planets and that aliens were always giving earth a helping hand.Adam and Eve were very intelligent humans who crash landed on earth and Jesus was put here by the aliens to give us a message.He talks about the pyramids and atlantis and describes advanced alien technology and warp speed and toilets that vapourise your waste as it comes out:eek:
He also reveals a NASA secret in the book 11 years before NASA revealed it to the public which is strange.
I know it sound crazy but its an enjoyable read even if it is made up.

http://www.archive.org/stream/ThiaooubaProphecyEbook/ThiaooubaProphecy_djvu.txt

Myrddin · 02-06-2012 2:05pm

gillad wrote: »

Has anybody read "The Thiaooba Prophesy"?Click on the link below and you can read it for free.

Its supposed to be a true story about a man abducted by aliens, brought to their planet and given a message for the earth.Its more like science fiction but its a great read if you keep in the back of your mind that it could be true.He says the earth was populated by humans from other planets and that aliens were always giving earth a helping hand.Adam and Eve were very intelligent humans who crash landed on earth and Jesus was put here by the aliens to give us a message.He talks about the pyramids and atlantis and describes advanced alien technology and warp speed and toilets that vapourise your waste as it comes out:eek:
He also reveals a NASA secret in the book 11 years before NASA revealed it to the public which is strange.
I know it sound crazy but its an enjoyable read even if it is made up.

http://www.archive.org/stream/ThiaooubaProphecyEbook/ThiaooubaProphecy_djvu.txt

Christ was an alien again eh? I wonder do all the many other faiths in the world have similar 'stories' about their deities.

I will read it at some stage, but yet again, the message thing seems to defy rationality. Why abduct someone, transport them god knows how many light years & give them a message to tell on their return? Why not simply, tell us themselves.

If an outside influence was genuinely concerned about the direction mankind is taking, would they really risk they're message by delivering it in a way that wouldn't be accepted?

gillad · 02-06-2012 2:12pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Christ was an alien again eh? I wonder do all the many other faiths in the world have similar 'stories' about their deities.

I will read it at some stage, but yet again, the message thing seems to defy rationality. Why abduct someone, transport them god knows how many light years & give them a message to tell on their return? Why not simply, tell us themselves.

If an outside influence was genuinely concerned about the direction mankind is taking, would they really risk they're message by delivering it in a way that wouldn't be accepted?

Read the book and all your questions will be answered

Myrddin · 02-06-2012 3:18pm

gillad wrote: »

Read the book and all your questions will be answered

Sounds very like psuedo-religious bullsh1t to me, I will however give it the benefit of the doubt & read it before knocking it. I can see it's gonna be a difficult read to say the least...

Q. Is there any way for us to communicate with people on Thiaoouba ?
A. The only way to communicate with them directly was to use telepathy with the help of the Great Pyramid, which, by the way, is not only abused beyond description, but is also slightly out of its original cosmic alignment and we don't have the technology or knowledge to correct it

But there is some sense in the book it would seem...

Q. What do your friends from Thiaoouba say about spirituality and religions on Earth ?
A. All religions, cults, sects etc. are truly dangerous. They have been created after great men (Christ, Buddha etc.) died, by people with only 2 things in mind: money and power. Religions are a true curse on Earth, because they are the source of spiritual misinformation. They constipate people with fear, propaganda and rituals to the point that people stop thinking and follow the flock.

gillad · 02-06-2012 4:34pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Sounds very like psuedo-religious bullsh1t to me, I will however give it the benefit of the doubt & read it before knocking it. I can see it's gonna be a difficult read to say the least...

But there is some sense in the book it would seem...

The message is political and spiritual and makes a lot of sense but the message wasnt spread so it was a failure and the worlds economy and spiritual wellbeing is in a mess now.Whether the message came from aliens or this guy in australia doesnt matter.What does matter is the message.
The book is still a great sci fi read.

Coriolanus · 02-06-2012 4:39pm

I think we generally give our ancestors short shrift, those who claim aliens did "it" just as much as those who think they were just one step above savages.
Things like the pyramids and antikythera device were breathtaking in their skill, but humans did it, that's it.

Myrddin · 02-06-2012 4:47pm

gillad wrote: »

Whether the message came from aliens or this guy in australia doesnt matter.What does matter is the message.

To be honest man, it kinda does

gillad · 02-06-2012 4:57pm

This is some of the message from 1989

‘But the people of Earth can no longer allow themselves to be treated as fools
and led to the abattoirs like flocks of sheep by leaders that they, themselves, have
democratically elected. The people form the vast majority. In a nation of one
hundred million inhabitants, it is absurd that a group of financiers comprising
perhaps a thousand individuals can decide the fate of the others - like the butcher
does at the abattoir
The people who say that the system must change are doing nothing about it.
Everybody is grumbling about the bad penal system we have. Of course it is bad,
the laws appear to have been made in favour of crooks. So do something about it!

Remember the penal system of the Bakaratinians? It wasn't unlike the Aztec
system, which was excellent because of its efficiency.

It isn't enough to say 'the system is bad, they should change it'. They - whom do
we mean by They? The parliamentarians, the heads of state, all those elected by
the people, by you. In order to change the system, the laws must change, along
with their leaders. You must force the politicians who represent you to change the
inefficient laws, the inefficient system, once and for all. The politicians are
generally too idle to undertake the task on their own. Each law requires a great
deal of work and responsibility, and that's often too much to ask, because, as I've
said, most of them are there for the prestige and big salary. Incidentally, if you
want to attract good politicians, start by cutting their salary to that of a suburban
bank manager and you will find that there are fewer applicants, but those who
remain will be sincere human beings and genuinely want to do something for the
people

kylith · 03-06-2012 12:56pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Christ was an alien again eh? I wonder do all the many other faiths in the world have similar 'stories' about their deities.

I will read it at some stage, but yet again, the message thing seems to defy rationality. Why abduct someone, transport them god knows how many light years & give them a message to tell on their return? Why not simply, tell us themselves.

If an outside influence was genuinely concerned about the direction mankind is taking, would they really risk they're message by delivering it in a way that wouldn't be accepted?

I couldn't agree more with the bit in bold. If I had a very important message to deliver, and access to amazing technology, would I A) tell one guy, without giving him any way to prove what he said, and hope people didn't think he was a crackpot, or

tap into television and radio broadcasts and tell everyone at the same time, in a way that was undeniable?

madma · 04-06-2012 12:07am

there's a real-life documentary on what really happened.. its called 'Prometheus(2012)

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gillad · 05-06-2012 11:11pm

Id say not many have read the book so ill explain that the aliens wont show themselves because they would freak us out and it would disturb our Natural Evolution......They showed themselves before(B.C. ancient egypt) but people started to call them "GODS" and it messed us up because religions were born.They tried to fix it with Jesus but that eventually made things worse.

Now they give us a nudge here and there and try to stop us from blowing the whole place up!
They stopped Hitler from getting the A-bomb so we should be thankfull:)

BTW.. We built the pyramids and all the other stuff but we lost a lot of our talents,
The Ancients were not crazy,they were like me and you and they saw things flying in the sky!(and there were no chinese laterns back then to blame it on)
Im going back to thiaoouba now my work here is done:):):)

RGDATA! · 06-06-2012 12:31am

gillad wrote: »

BTW.. We built the pyramids and all the other stuff but we lost a lot of our talents,

what talents did we lose? we could easily build the pyramids today a hell of a lot quicker, and without slave labour?

gillad wrote: »

Id say not many have read the book so ill explain that the aliens wont show themselves because they would freak us out and it would disturb our Natural Evolution......They showed themselves before(B.C. ancient egypt) but people started to call them "GODS" and it messed us up because religions were born.They tried to fix it with Jesus but that eventually made things worse.

Now they give us a nudge here and there and try to stop us from blowing the whole place up!

so to summarise, aliens, who have our best interests at heart, are secretly guiding our evolution, but seriously ****ed up with their first two direct interventions?

Myrddin · 06-06-2012 4:04pm

gillad wrote: »

They stopped Hitler from getting the A-bomb so we should be thankfull:)

Yet if Hitler had developed a nuclear weapon, it's likely the quarter of a million that died in Hiroshima & Nagasaki wouldn't have died. I wouldn't say they're too thankful.

Aliens 'fixing' things by giving us a messiah, doesn't really make sense. It's also in direct conflict with other religions, who believe their own deities to be the true god. It would have made more sense to create a false god all over the world, so the people could unite in one belief...rather than the splintering of different beliefs.

Why were there no Chinese lanterns back then? It's a simple thing that floats with a small flame in it. I'm sure its more plausible people were inventing these kinds of things thousands of years ago, as opposed to beings directing our evolution.

dyer · 07-06-2012 12:26pm

Yet if Hitler had developed a nuclear weapon, it's likely the quarter of a million that died in Hiroshima & Nagasaki wouldn't have died.

i skimmed through the text last night.. apparently this they decided, was the lesser of two evils, because all planets have to invent/create the atom bomb at some stage and they can only intervene to a certain degree.

i also came across these two golden nuggets in the text.. btw.. the 'blacks and the yellows' referred to in the text are extraterrestrial descendants from another planet who colonised earth some 1.8million years ago.

'I'm sorry, Thao - may I interrupt? When you explained the cataclysm which
knocked the Earth off its axis, you said that refuge on the moon was not possible
because it didn't exist - and yet now, you say that safety bases were established on
the moon for these emigrants...'

'There was no moon at the time when the blacks populated Australia, or for a
very long time afterwards. There had been two very small moons much earlier -
about six million years ago, which revolved around Earth, eventually colliding
with it. Earth was not inhabited at the time so, although terrible cataclysms
followed, it didn't really matter.

'About 500 000 years ago, Earth 'captured' a much larger moon - the one which
exists now. It was passing too close to your planet and was attracted into an orbit.
This often happens with moons. Further catastrophes were provoked by this
event...'

'What do you mean when you say 'passing too close' to Earth? Why didn't it
crash? And anyway, what is a moon?'

'It could have crashed indeed, but that doesn't often happen. A moon is
originally a small planet revolving around its sun in a spiral that becomes
increasingly tight. The smaller planets spiral more rapidly than the larger ones,
because their [7] inertial force is less.

'Their spiral being faster, the smaller planets often catch up to the larger planets
and, if they pass too closely, the gravitational attraction of the planet will be
stronger than that of the sun. The smaller planet begins to orbit the larger one,
still in a spiral, which will sooner or later result in a collision.'

'Are you saying that our beautiful moon celebrated in poem and song, will one
day fall on our heads?'

'One day, yes. ..but not for about 195 000 years.'

I must have seemed relieved and my fright somewhat comical, for my hosts all
laughed.

Thao continued. 'When that happens - when the moon collides with the Earth -
that will be the end of your planet. If the people of Earth are not sufficiently
spiritually and technologically advanced at the time, it will mean a holocaust; but,
if they are, they will have evacuated to another planet. Everything in its time
though, Michel - for now, I must finish off my story concerning the continent of
Mu.

'What do you think of homosexuality?'

'The homosexual, female as well as male, is a neurotic (when it is not a matter
of hormones) and neurotics can't be condemned but, like all neurotics, they
should seek treatment. In all things, Michel, consider what Nature has decreed
and you will have the answers to your questions

at best i would say it was a half decent sci-fi novel with some good insights into how we currently live our lives on earth (not that we have to leave the solar system to understand that), albeit it's quite poorly written. at worst i don't think it's much better than occultist nazi ufo nonsense or indeed billy meier's escapades presenting itself as a real document but at least it doesn't attempt to present any 'real' evidence (because there is none) other than the supposed experience related by the author himself.

seamus · 07-06-2012 12:40pm

kylith wrote: »

that carving statues would be '50 years' work for a man', while never once seeming to think that that would make it a year's work for 50 men.

I've never watched AA, but it always seems to me that when discussing theories about how ancient civilisation did various amazing works, for some reason perfectly valid theories are thrown away or downgraded purely because of the patience and manpower required.

Michaelangelo spent nearly four years on his back, painting the ceiling of a single room in the Vatican. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibilty that a prehistoric artisan might spend a lifetime working on a single piece of insanely fine art. It's not like he had to go to the office during the day to send emails.

Or that a job which would have required 500 men to toil for a year to get a big piece stone to the top of a pyramid would be considered unfeasible. They're slaves.

Myrddin · 08-06-2012 8:23am

dyer wrote: »

but at least it doesn't attempt to present any 'real' evidence (because there is none) other than the supposed experience related by the author himself.

Not to mention that fact that the moon is actually getting farther & farther away from Earth, a few cm's each year I think. The above mentions the moon will eventually fall to Earth.

Direct counter evidence I'd call that

dyer · 09-06-2012 4:09am

which is exactly why i mentioned it

moves away at the rate of around 3cm a year i do believe.

11-06-2012 9:32am

Its a TV show which has been grasping at straws ever since the first episode. The funniest episode was connecting Bigfoot with UFO's.

Speaking of , watch Finding bigfoot. Just as entertaining if not better.

maccored · 11-06-2012 6:31pm

if you consider the range of technologies we as humans developed and then forgot about for another few centuries (the romans had heated floors ffs, but no-one had heated floors in the 1600s) then it wouldnt be surprising if ancient man could easily do things like build pyramids and view the ground from the air etc. Just because we dont know precisely how they did things, doesnt mean it was aliens.

murrayp4 · 20-06-2012 11:16am

20-06-2012 11:21am

That guy is a legend , pure entertainment. He did the Joe Rogan podcast, as nuts as he is, he still speaks a little sense .

Myrddin · 21-06-2012 9:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

he still speaks a little sense .

I find him incredibly difficult to watch/listen to, a grade A nutjob if you ask me

gaelicred · 01-08-2012 8:58pm

Some things on AA get me thinking like how some of our ancestors could build walls that fit perfectley together with no mortar maybe the the intelligence they had has been lost over time.But AA never gives then any credit so it has to be Aliens:rolleyes:

Ancient Aliens

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