Bilderberg 2012 list.

Monty Burnz · 29-05-2012 11:04PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I would beg to differ. The modern form of "slavery" or control, in particular in the western world, is debt, debt, debt and of course the ever increasing influence of undemocratic or even anti-democratic bodies making the big decisions in our world.

I really think this is nonsense. The invention of banking is what allowed Europe to go from a backward backwater in the late medieval period to the centre of world innovation and power by the 17th century.

Credit is a democratising force and a playing pitch-leveller.

By the way, as I explained before, we are totally at liberty to tell the Troika to take a hike with their reforms and their loans.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-05-2012 11:11PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I really think this is nonsense. The invention of banking is what allowed Europe to go from a backward backwater in the late medieval period to the centre of world innovation and power by the 17th century.

Credit is a democratising force and a playing pitch-leveller.

By the way, as I explained before, we are totally at liberty to tell the Troika to take a hike with their reforms and their loans.

Credit is the birth of enslavement.

The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

Monty Burnz · 29-05-2012 11:16PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Credit is the birth of enslavement.

The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

Nonsense. Total nonsense. Without credit, the rich are rich in perpetuity. With credit, I can start a business and become wealthy myself. How do you think Apple started? Or Microsoft? Or most other companies?

Without credit, how does an ordinary worker get the capital to put his business idea into effect? How does an ordinary worker even save for a house? (I'm referring to the basic cost of the house in terms of land and building materials, not the credit-bubble fantasy 'value' they recently attained).

Without credit, you can have the best business brains and ideas on the planet, but you'll never have the money to do anything about it. And not only you lose - all of society loses out from the benefits of whatever business innovation you would otherwise bring; the car, the aeroplane, the desktop computer, whatever.

namloc1980 · 29-05-2012 11:45PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I really think this is nonsense. The invention of banking is what allowed Europe to go from a backward backwater in the late medieval period to the centre of world innovation and power by the 17th century.

Credit is a democratising force and a playing pitch-leveller.

By the way, as I explained before, we are totally at liberty to tell the Troika to take a hike with their reforms and their loans.

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who are struggling to pay their debts from week to week...tell them that it is democratizing for them...that'll make them feel better I'm sure.

Who is this "we" you speak of?

Run_to_da_hills · 30-05-2012 12:27AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Nonsense. Total nonsense. Without credit, the rich are rich in perpetuity. With credit, I can start a business and become wealthy myself. How do you think Apple started? Or Microsoft? Or most other companies?

Without credit, how does an ordinary worker get the capital to put his business idea into effect? How does an ordinary worker even save for a house? (I'm referring to the basic cost of the house in terms of land and building materials, not the credit-bubble fantasy 'value' they recently attained).

Without credit, you can have the best business brains and ideas on the planet, but you'll never have the money to do anything about it. And not only you lose - all of society loses out from the benefits of whatever business innovation you would otherwise bring; the car, the aeroplane, the desktop computer, whatever.

Yes once you purchase a house or take out a credit card you automatically become enslaved to those institutes.

It will get worse in Ireland once we hand over more and more authority over to these criminal elitist like Rothschild and the IMF.

What I deplored about the recent Boom years is why so much money was allowed to circulate about the country unchequed at such a ridiculous low interest rate.

I have good respect for Islamic countries when it comes to handling credit and interest. They don't bite more off than they can chew and for this reason their countries are a lot stronger and have survived much of the recent crash,

Monty Burnz · 30-05-2012 08:33AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I really think this is nonsense. The invention of banking is what allowed Europe to go from a backward backwater in the late medieval period to the centre of world innovation and power by the 17th century.

Credit is a democratising force and a playing pitch-leveller.

By the way, as I explained before, we are totally at liberty to tell the Troika to take a hike with their reforms and their loans.

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who are struggling to pay their debts from week to week...tell them that it is democratizing for them...that'll make them feel better I'm sure.

Who is this "we" you speak of?

I'll happily tell these struggling people who went out and borrowed small fortunes by their own choice, although I'm sure it will be beyond the comprehension of the slower ones.

The 'we' I speak of is the Irish people.

Jonny7 · 30-05-2012 08:46AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who are struggling to pay their debts from week to week...tell them that it is democratizing for them...that'll make them feel better I'm sure.

Who is this "we" you speak of?

What are you talking about? people were in debt around the turn of the last century and the century before that..

Democracy? are you serious? please feel free to visit any country on earth with the same problem, to a lesser extent during boom cycle, greater extent during recession.

superluck · 30-05-2012 09:18AM

Monty Burnz wrote:

I'll happily tell these struggling people who went out and borrowed small fortunes by their own choice, although I'm sure it will be beyond the comprehension of the slower ones.

The 'we' I speak of is the Irish people.

This is typical response from somebody that doesn't understand anything about Modern monetary theory.

The big joke right now in the US is that private banks are able to borrow from the central bank at 0.5% interest rate and lend this money to the US government at 2.5%

You think this is democracy? ....you have no idea what you're talking about.

hooradiation · 30-05-2012 09:59AM

superluck wrote: »

This is typical response from somebody that doesn't understand anything about Modern monetary theory.

The big joke right now in the US is that private banks are able to borrow from the central bank at 0.5% interest rate and lend this money to the US government at 2.5%

You think this is democracy? ....you have no idea what you're talking about.

And oddly, those who claim to understand it are thoroughly incapable of explaining these self-evident "truths".

superluck · 30-05-2012 10:06AM

What you rambling about now hooradiation?

Go and read about it, i'm not here to hold your hand like you're some child.

Start here

Only a complete idiot would believe private banks were intended to lend money to the government with interest.

hooradiation · 30-05-2012 10:54AM

superluck wrote: »

What you rambling about now hooradiation?

Go and read about it, i'm not here to hold your hand like you're some child.

Start here

Only a complete idiot would believe private banks were intended to lend money to the government with interest.

Yeah, how silly of me to expect you to be able to back up or explain or even deal with questions about your opinions.

That'd be just beyond the pale, right?

Jonny7 · 30-05-2012 12:18PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I suppose it depends on your point of view. While personal rights have come a long way modern society in many respects is as unequal as ever. A small percentage of people own the vast majority of the world's wealth. That is unequal.

And this has pretty much always been the case. Right now, you personally are much wealthier than the majority of people in the world.

Of course, the distribution of wealth has been a problem and an issue for centuries, whatever you try to think up to magically solve the problem has already been examined and discussed to death. Communism was just one attempt.

Fundamentally, as human beings, we are driven by self-interest - harnessing this in the form of capitalism is currently the best system we have - not perfect - but the best

If you have some incredible idea how to "solve" this (whilst of course sharing your own personal massive wealth with Africans) then please feel free to set up a party and people can vote for you, it's a democracy after all.

I dbout this will happen as its simpler for people to moan and complain than actually come up with a detailed and comprehensive solution to the issue of wealth distribution (hat doesn't involve some ridiculous crusty manifesto of "tearing it all down man")

Te modern form of "slavery" or control, in particular in the western world, is debt, debt, debt and of course the ever increasing influence of undemocratic or even anti-democratic bodies making the big decisions in our world.

Well I chose not to be in debt by - not being in debt. I don't feel entitled to a big screen TV if I can't afford to pay for it. I don't feel entitled to a permanent job that I will never lose. I don't feel entitled that the government somehow magically provide me with everything I want in life regardless of the hugely complex social and economic issues at play.

No one was complaining about this **** in 2007 strangely enough.

enno99 · 30-05-2012 11:32PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Deal with it.

HSE to ban smoking in all its hospital grounds

However, it has been the subject of fierce criticism by retired hospital doctor Dr John Nolan who described it in a letter to The Irish Times as an act of “primitive savagery”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2012/0124/1224310670236.html

So whats next beaches /Public parks

See how this stuff incrementally creeps in

Whats that oul saying ..When they came for me there was nobody left

So when its your turn lets hope you can

Deal with it

hooradiation · 31-05-2012 11:55AM

enno99 wrote: »

HSE to ban smoking in all its hospital grounds

However, it has been the subject of fierce criticism by retired hospital doctor Dr John Nolan who described it in a letter to The Irish Times as an act of “primitive savagery”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2012/0124/1224310670236.html

So whats next beaches /Public parks

See how this stuff incrementally creeps in

Whats that oul saying ..When they came for me there was nobody left

So when its your turn lets hope you can

Deal with it

One doctor objects, well that's definitely not an outlier. And by that rational, then anything that you can take to "calm yourself" should be allowed. I'm sure we can all see the downsides of that.

And really, smokers not inflicting their smoke on other people is entirely comparable to the persecution of the jews in Nazi germany? That's pathetic.

Monty Burnz · 31-05-2012 01:42PM

superluck wrote: »

This is typical response from somebody that doesn't understand anything about Modern monetary theory.

The big joke right now in the US is that private banks are able to borrow from the central bank at 0.5% interest rate and lend this money to the US government at 2.5%

You think this is democracy? ....you have no idea what you're talking about.

I think I now rather more about 'monetary theory' and economics than you do. Although your response is typical of someone who tries to bluff out an answer to a point they don't really understand...

SIR PEADO BAILOUT · 31-05-2012 04:13PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think I now rather more about 'monetary theory' and economics than you do. Although your response is typical of someone who tries to bluff out an answer to a point they don't really understand...

How so....sure yer man had a crackin point wit da interest joke and all.....maybe u dont under stand da theory afterall... ...thats like some nazi fella idea of da democrazy and money....

Joshua J · 31-05-2012 05:33PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think I now rather more about 'monetary theory' and economics than you do. Although your response is typical of someone who tries to bluff out an answer to a point they don't really understand...

Ah jezus sure everyone knows Montys a "Lizard Familiar". He's just waiting for the genome therapy now.

superluck · 31-05-2012 05:52PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think I now rather more about 'monetary theory' and economics than you do. Although your response is typical of someone who tries to bluff out an answer to a point they don't really understand...

Really? This is from a man who thinks humans will eventually develop the technology to transport us to another world capable of supporting life....any idea where that planet is?

Planet X perhaps? Hope they have plenty of iPods for you there.

Being an economics expert, maybe you can explain to me the logic of private banks borrowing money from the central bank at 0.5% and then the US government borrowing from those private banks at 2.5%

I'm assuming a man of your superior knowledge understands the purpose of a central bank.

I'm always being told by experts the FED is "owned by the people" yet the US gov have to borrow from private investors...and those investors seem to have access to free money unlike everyone else.

If Anglo Irish can borrow at 0.5% from the US FED, why does the US government borrow from private investors at 2.5% ?

I'm sure you'll have some formula to help break down the complicated science behind that.

Sonics2k · 31-05-2012 08:01PM

enno99 wrote: »

Off the top of my head smoking ban

How about answering the rest of my post

Hold on now, I'm a smoker and I supported the smoking ban in restaurants, but would of preferred available exceptions to bars/clubs with sufficient ventilation, much like in Australia.

But, the smoking ban in such places was not a restriction of freedoms, but a health and safety thing.

It would be a restriction of a personal freedom if they prevented people from smoking in the privacy of their own homes.

Big big big difference here.

enno99 · 01-06-2012 12:19AM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hold on now, I'm a smoker and I supported the smoking ban in restaurants, but would of preferred available exceptions to bars/clubs with sufficient ventilation, much like in Australia.

But, the smoking ban in such places was not a restriction of freedoms, but a health and safety thing.

It would be a restriction of a personal freedom if they prevented people from smoking in the privacy of their own homes.

Big big big difference here.

I totally agree with the first part of your post and I stated that in a later post
but I see it as the thin end of the wedge
If you consider the ban on hospital grounds where there is no risk to anybody but the smoker

SMOKING WILL be banned in public parks, on beaches and boardwalks and in sportsgrounds, if the Minister for Health has his way.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0421/1224315010235.html

Very soon you will only be able to smoke in your own home until they find a way of prohibiting that that

enno99 · 01-06-2012 12:29AM

hooradiation wrote: »

One doctor objects, well that's definitely not an outlier. And by that rational, then anything that you can take to "calm yourself" should be allowed. I'm sure we can all see the downsides of that.

Can you elaborate on that a bit ?

It was also criticised by the smokers’ lobby group, Forest Éireann. Spokesman John Mallon said the smoking ban was introduced to protect non-smokers, yet those who smoked in the grounds of hospitals were a threat to nobody else.

“It is an attack on a minority based on the personal preferences of those in authority,” he said.

So what in your mind merits the ban here

And really, smokers not inflicting their smoke on other people is entirely comparable to the persecution of the jews in Nazi germany? That's pathetic.

That seems rather a glib answer because when you scratch the surface it dont seem that pathetic

Hitler's personal distaste for tobacco[10] and the Nazi reproductive policies were among the motivating factors behind their campaign against smoking, and this campaign was associated with both antisemitism and racism

The term "passive smoking" ("Passivrauchen") was coined in Nazi Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany

Medicine and Medical Ethics in Nazi Germany: Origins, Practices, Legacy
http://books.google.ie/books?id=1Dz45L-oYrEC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=are+smokers+asocials&source=bl&ots=qT1xbkV7wo&sig=zMQpY5pYWWVK8FaJ5-W-LmFXrJQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b7_HT768McLBhAfBv-2mCw&ved=0CGMQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=are%20smokers%20asocials&f=false

Smokers 'seen as disgusting and dirty outcasts

Smokers are like ‘migrant and indigenous groups’ in past centuries who were seen as contaminating the rest of society and threatening the way of life of normal, healthy people, Professor Graham, of York University,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107419/Anti-smoking-campaigns-turn-light-lepers-warns-Department-Health-adviser.html

Jonny7 · 01-06-2012 08:19AM

enno99 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that a bit ?
That seems rather a glib answer because when you scratch the surface it dont seem that pathetic

Hitler's personal distaste for tobacco[10] and the Nazi reproductive policies were among the motivating factors behind their campaign against smoking, and this campaign was associated with both antisemitism and racism

The term "passive smoking" ("Passivrauchen") was coined in Nazi Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany

Medicine and Medical Ethics in Nazi Germany: Origins, Practices, Legacy
http://books.google.ie/books?id=1Dz45L-oYrEC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=are+smokers+asocials&source=bl&ots=qT1xbkV7wo&sig=zMQpY5pYWWVK8FaJ5-W-LmFXrJQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b7_HT768McLBhAfBv-2mCw&ved=0CGMQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=are%20smokers%20asocials&f=false

Smokers 'seen as disgusting and dirty outcasts

Smokers are like ‘migrant and indigenous groups’ in past centuries who were seen as contaminating the rest of society and threatening the way of life of normal, healthy people, Professor Graham, of York University,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2107419/Anti-smoking-campaigns-turn-light-lepers-warns-Department-Health-adviser.html

I'm a smoker and it's a disgusting unhealthy habit. The ban was widely accepted in Ireland and most other countries based on health reasons, common sense, reason and rational.

hooradiation · 01-06-2012 09:52AM

enno99 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that a bit ?

I don't see how it needs to be expanded. What don't you understand?
"it calms people" isn't a valid reason to permit something that is harmful to others.

enno99 wrote: »

It was also criticised by the smokers’ lobby group, Forest Éireann. Spokesman John Mallon said the smoking ban was introduced to protect non-smokers, yet those who smoked in the grounds of hospitals were a threat to nobody else.

“It is an attack on a minority based on the personal preferences of those in authority,” he said.

So what in your mind merits the ban here

Second hand smoking is a demonstrably harmful phenomenon.

enno99 wrote: »

That seems rather a glib answer because when you scratch the surface it dont seem that pathetic

Actually, your right - by going to reductio ad hitlerum you've gone past pathetic to a special place where shameless bullshit is second only to an imagined status as a persecuted victim.

Sadly, I can't think of a single succinct term for the terrible place you've dragged your awful argument to.

Joshua J · 01-06-2012 10:50AM

So can I just ask the skeppies if they believe that all these high rolling elites, whose meetings are kept secret, are completely benign.

Monty Burnz · 01-06-2012 11:18AM

superluck wrote: »

Really? This is from a man who thinks humans will eventually develop the technology to transport us to another world capable of supporting life....any idea where that planet is?

Yes, I know exactly where it is - because I'm ONE OF THEM!!

Great point buddy. So you think there's only one place in the whole universe that can support life? Good luck defending that position.

superluck wrote: »

Planet X perhaps? Hope they have plenty of iPods for you there.

...just more gibberish...

superluck wrote: »

Being an economics expert, maybe you can explain to me the logic of private banks borrowing money from the central bank at 0.5% and then the US government borrowing from those private banks at 2.5%

I could, but I feel I'd be wasting my time.

superluck wrote: »

I'm assuming a man of your superior knowledge understands the purpose of a central bank.

Yup. And it's not to lend money to the government. Don't take my word for it, look it up.

superluck wrote: »

I'm always being told by experts the FED is "owned by the people" yet the US gov have to borrow from private investors...and those investors seem to have access to free money unlike everyone else.

If you think it's free money, why don't you sell all you own and buy bank shares - you can't lose!! Unless you are talking sh!t again, of course.

superluck wrote: »

If Anglo Irish can borrow at 0.5% from the US FED, why does the US government borrow from private investors at 2.5% ?

I'm sure you'll have some formula to help break down the complicated science behind that.

Because central banks do not exist to lend to the government. The reasons are pretty obvious if you think about it, which you clearly haven't. Or perhaps the obvious is beyond you, seeing as you can't imagine human life existing outside our little planet?

Corkfeen · 01-06-2012 11:29AM

Joshua J wrote: »

So can I just ask the skeppies if they believe that all these high rolling elites, whose meetings are kept secret, are completely benign.

The fact that we're discussing the so called 'secret' meetings would indicate that they're not particularly secretive tbh..

Joshua J · 01-06-2012 11:32AM

Corkfeen wrote: »

The fact that we're discussing the so called 'secret' meetings would indicate that they're not particularly secretive tbh..

Oh so you know what they talk about then. Please enlighten me. Still didn't answer the question though. Do you feel it's benign?.

Monty Burnz · 01-06-2012 11:38AM

Joshua J wrote: »

Oh so you know what they talk about then. Please enlighten me. Still didn't answer the question though. Do you feel it's benign?.

I think it is, largely. I imagine a lot of networking and business gets done.

profitius · 01-06-2012 12:08PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

The fact that we're discussing the so called 'secret' meetings would indicate that they're not particularly secretive tbh..

They're unknown to the vast majority of the worlds population. The media wouldn't touch them either because they'd be spying on their bosses.

Attabear · 01-06-2012 12:30PM

There's a couple of irishers on the list too.

We've made it, the global elite!

Would have been a bit awkward at the Bilderberg Brunch if we hadn't voted yes to the financial stability treaty.

Bilderberg 2012 list.

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