If you can't beat their argument, tear down their posters

wilson10 · 23-05-2012 12:00PM #1

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

timbyr · 23-05-2012 12:02PM

I've certainly noticed Yes posters going missing.

Hadn't figured if they were being moved or removed maliciously.

meglome · 23-05-2012 12:42PM

timbyr wrote: »

I've certainly noticed Yes posters going missing.

Hadn't figured if they were being moved or removed maliciously.

Haven't seen any removed but there is a massive number of no posters around town. Many from organisations I've never heard of before. Which makes me beg the question as to who is paying for them?

Telchak · 23-05-2012 03:49PM

Seen a poster on Ormond Quay in Dublin by the Socialist Party. It had a quote by Angela Merkel about the Treaty with any words such as 'must' or 'have to' bolded. Beside it was a picture of Merkel with a large black square between her nose and lip :rolleyes: Don't know if it was done on their part, or a sticker put on later, but very bad form altogether :mad:

Ozymandius2011 · 23-05-2012 04:03PM

Not seen any such thing.

meglome · 23-05-2012 04:12PM

Telchak wrote: »

Seen a poster on Ormond Quay in Dublin by the Socialist Party. It had a quote by Angela Merkel about the Treaty with any words such as 'must' or 'have to' bolded. Beside it was a picture of Merkel with a large black square between her nose and lip :rolleyes: Don't know if it was done on their part, or a sticker put on later, but very bad form altogether :mad:

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead' etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and I don't care who put it up it's disgraceful.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 23-05-2012 04:18PM

meglome wrote: »

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Democracy has more lives than a horror movie killer. It seems to have been killed at every referendum since 1972, only to pop back up, Jason Voorhees style, and have to be killed all over again at the next one.

meglome · 23-05-2012 04:22PM

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Democracy has more lives than a horror movie killer. It seems to have been killed at every referendum since 1972, only to pop back up, Jason Voorhees style, and have to be killed all over again at the next one.

Yeah funnily someone called me on my claim that Sinn Fein has always claimed we lost our sovereignty, the same for every treaty with Europe. So I went to the Sinn Fein site and proved it in spades, I imagine they won't do that again.

The Waltzing Consumer · 23-05-2012 04:35PM

meglome wrote: »

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead' etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and I don't care who put it up it's disgraceful.

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

Vita nova · 23-05-2012 10:43PM

wilson10 wrote: »

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

I got that impression as well but unfortunately I have no hard evidence.

I often travel along the M4 towards Dublin and take the slip road for Liffey Valley just before the M50. I could have sworn there were numerous Yes posters approaching and along the slip road, however, yesterday it was exclusively No posters from Libertas. Similar situation along Fonthill Road.

Is there anybody else that takes that route, and has noticed something similar?

Wider Road · 23-05-2012 11:34PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

meglome wrote: »

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead' etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and I don't care who put it up it's disgraceful.

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

Remind us again on who replaced Alan Kelly the Labour democratically elected MEP when Kelly became a TD!

Hawkeye123 · 24-05-2012 08:27PM

wilson10 wrote: »

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

What a co-incidence. I too have seen this phenomenon but it was the Libertas posters which were being torn down and replaced with non-Libertas posters. This is happening in Cork but the vandals are probably from outside the county.

Godge · 24-05-2012 10:50PM

meglome wrote: »

Haven't seen any removed but there is a massive number of no posters around town. Many from organisations I've never heard of before. Which makes me beg the question as to who is paying for them?

Could they be printed with O'Snodaigh's print cartridges?

PopeBuckfastXVI · 25-05-2012 10:07AM

Along the Newcastle Road in Galway, every 'yes' poster is defaced with 'lies', 'NO' or slogans that won't make it past boards' swear filter.

I haven't seen one 'No' poster so defaced, anywhere.

Fussgangerzone · 25-05-2012 02:41PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

So, what you're saying is, the political processes put in place by the EU are undemocratic? You must hate the European Commission so. :P

RandomName2 · 25-05-2012 02:53PM

meglome wrote: »

Many from organisations I've never heard of before.

Such as?

The only malicious interference that I can remember in terms of posters with Lisbon 2 was in relation to anti-Coir folk (the LIES stickers and illegal No to Nuts posters)

meglome · 25-05-2012 03:07PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Such as?

I didn't take pictures but if I get a chance I will. I'd never heard of the organisations though. Notwithstanding some of the real barrel scraping that was going on.

RandomName2 wrote: »

The only malicious interference that I can remember in terms of posters with Lisbon 2 was in relation to anti-Coir folk (the LIES stickers and illegal No to Nuts posters)

Should I go on?

German pointer · 25-05-2012 03:09PM

wilson10 wrote: »

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

Not being smart but it's not an election but a referndum, so do the same laws apply

later12 · 25-05-2012 03:16PM

meglome wrote: »

Should I go on?

I think it's someone else's turn
Lisbon+FG.jpg

Lets leave it there shall we? Both sides completely mis-representing the case, as usual.

RandomName2 · 25-05-2012 03:18PM

meglome wrote: »

I didn't take pictures but if I get a chance I will. I'd never heard of the organisations though. Notwithstanding some of the real barrel scraping that was going on.

Should I go on?

Well most of those are Lisbon (yeh, I know, Google Images mightn't have Fiscal Compact yet).

Also the organisations there are Workers Party, Socialist, eirigi (these three have been around donkey's years), and Coir (also around quite a while, even if it only gets involved in referenda - and not even this one, thank God) and Libertas (never head of them - really?

)

No idea about the anti-Israeli one - saw it myself at the time - but that's also Lisbon.

meglome · 25-05-2012 03:32PM

later12 wrote: »

I think it's someone else's turn
Lets leave it there shall we? Both sides completely mis-representing the case, as usual.

I have said many times I hate the way our referenda are run. However the point I'm making is I hear 'Yes for Jobs' almost every bloody day. I do not hear a peep about the many many things the no camp said. And I'm not even going to get into how much worse the content of those no posters are.

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well most of those are Lisbon (yeh, I know, Google Images mightn't have Fiscal Compact yet).

Also the organisations there are Workers Party, Socialist, eirigi (these three have been around donkey's years), and Coir (also around quite a while, even if it only gets involved in referenda - and not even this one, thank God) and Libertas (never head of them - really? )

No idea about the anti-Israeli one - saw it myself at the time - but that's also Lisbon.

Sure they are of Lisbon as you mentioned Lisbon 2 in your post above. But it's much the same again all over town. So the examples are very valid.

later12 · 25-05-2012 03:33PM

meglome wrote: »

I have said many times I hate the way our referenda are run. However the point I'm making is I hear 'Yes for Jobs' almost every bloody day.

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

meglome · 25-05-2012 03:42PM

later12 wrote: »

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

You're pushing me to say who were the worst liars which I have no real interest in doing, all the lying and exaggeration is bad. I will say though that the mostly aspirational statements from the government and yes campaign, while crappy, are not in the same league as what the no camp claimed.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 25-05-2012 03:44PM

later12 wrote: »

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

Article 21 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union given force of Law by adoption of the Lisbon treaty makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, everywhere, in the entire EU.

Zulu · 25-05-2012 03:44PM

later12 wrote: »

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

Was it bad for gays?

later12 · 25-05-2012 03:49PM

Zulu wrote: »

Was it bad for gays?

It wasn't good, it was fabulous.

No, the issue is it was nothing to do with gays, abortion, climate change, Israel, or jobs in Cork. It was just another example of how a referendum campaign is hijacked by issues that have very little to do with the point of the exercise - a bit like the upcoming Treaty, sometimes.

The point of this is that both sides are guilty of it.

RandomName2 · 25-05-2012 03:53PM

meglome wrote: »

You're pushing me to say who were the worst liars which I have no real interest in doing, all the lying and exaggeration is bad. I will say though that the mostly aspirational statements from the government and yes campaign, while crappy, are not in the same league as what the no camp claimed.

Ah but the yes campaign was the government, NGOs aided by the government, and those sponsored by EU Parliamentary bodies. When you take into account the fact that the Government had helped create the treaty, had approved the treaty, was opposed to a referendum on the matter, forced a revote (without changing their mantra about the economic benefits of Lisbon) and allowed EU pressure to come to bear (Sarcozy, Barossa, etc.) on the public, it kind of outweighs the immorality of tinfoil hats ranting about EU armies.

Noticed how GUE/NGL and the Independent Democratic EU Parliamentary groups are weighing in in a very obvious manner on behalf of the No side this time...

Wider Road · 25-05-2012 05:15PM

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

So, what you're saying is, the political processes put in place by the EU are undemocratic? You must hate the European Commission so. :P

Some of ye are forgetting Alan Kelly now a TD in Tipperary North doing the same as Joe Higgins, ie first an MEP, now a TD. "The Waltzing Consumer" sees nothing wrong with Labour doing this yet has a problem with democracy when ULA does the same thing!!

oscarBravo · 25-05-2012 05:36PM

later12 wrote: »

No, the issue is it was nothing to do with gays, abortion, climate change, Israel, or jobs in Cork.

Didn't Lisbon make environmental policy a core competence of the union?

Ozymandius2011 · 26-05-2012 09:17AM

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Article 21 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union given force of Law by adoption of the Lisbon treaty makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, everywhere, in the entire EU.

Not really. The Charter's provisions only apply to EU law - not national law. So EU law can't discriminate but national law may be a different matter.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 26-05-2012 09:23AM

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Not really. The Charter's provisions only apply to EU law - not national law. So EU law can't discriminate but national law may be a different matter.

And national implementations of EU law, don't forget.

The point is the claim that Lisbon is 'good for gays' is not equivalent to the claim that Lisbon is bringing in a lower minimum wage, question mark or not, so it's not fair to hold it up as an example of disingenuous argument, because forbidding discrimination based on sexual orientation, in any context, is good for gays. We can argue on exactly how good, but then the leaflet doesn't specify how good itself, so that particular argument would be superfluous to the point being made.

If you can't beat their argument, tear down their posters

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