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Irish Olympic Marathon selection put on long finger

124

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    04072511 wrote: »
    So much for the whole argument of sending B-Standards to the Olympics to gain valuable Olympic experience. Maria is the only one with such experience and it seems like she may have been punished because of it. How can such a point be taken seriously now.

    Not an easy job for the selectors but would be nice if they made public the reasons behind the selection.

    You could argue its one thing to have track experience but she doesnt have Marathon Championship experience and with the likes of Byrne, hutchinson and even possibly Jennings (only 31) may have another chance at Rio and this experience could stand to them

    Having said that I would have liked to see Maria on the team in terms of current fitness and potential for high finishing I could see here being second only to Linda on the team IMO


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    My guess would be they want to give these 3 experience thinking they'll qualify again in 2016. Main reason I expected Maria to miss out was because the other three are younger than her and are more likely to be looking to run again in Rio.

    Yep a very good case for that, can't remember if that was one of the criteria they put down.
    A. Consistency and Repeatability of performance in the 2011 and 2012 domestic and international seasons. Repeatability
    indicates consistency of performance and soundness of athlete preparation necessary to compete at the Olympic Games;
    B. Statistical data (ranking/performance list, performance-time curves derived from longitudinal data);
    C. On‐Demand Performance and success at the Olympic Games requires the ability to compete on‐demand at a level equal
    to or better than the qualifying standards. The ability to achieve standards and to win at specific high performance
    competitions is a principle for nomination. The history and performances at previous European, World Track and Field
    Championships, and Olympic Games, in particular the history of the athlete’s on-demand performances at those major
    championships by reference to the level of performance expected of the athlete at those championships will be considered.
    D. The competitive record of each athlete against other athletes under consideration for nomination in the same event.
    Emphasis will be placed on such results achieved in national championship events, as will achievement of performance
    targets in championship conditions.
    E. The Final Phase Readiness in the final build-up phase is a fundamental principle for nomination. The ability to achieve
    the Olympic Entry Standard(s) indicates performance readiness in the main competition period and ultimately for the main
    competition.
    2.3 The Selectors may nominate up to three athletes for each event provided they have met the 2012 Olympic Games Entry
    Standard. Where there are more than three athletes who have bettered the “A” Standard in one event, the Selectors will decide
    which of the athletes is to be nominated for selection by reference (including but not limited) to the factors set out in section 2.2.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭Ar Strae


    The die is cast

    Women’s Marathon
    Linda Byrne
    Ava Hutchinson
    Caitriona Jennings


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    I have merged the two threads as they are discussing same topic


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭rom


    ecoli wrote: »
    I have merged the two threads as they are discussing same topic

    4 into 3 doesn't go but 2 into 1 does ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    Im shocked by that. Maria regularly gives catriona jennings a pasting. Has jennings ever finished ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race?
    Thats a joke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,243 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    tunguska wrote: »
    Im shocked by that. Maria regularly gives catriona jennings a pasting. Has jennings ever finished ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race?
    Thats a joke.

    That's a bit unfair. How many times have they raced over the marathon? Jennings is 5 years younger and is improving rapidly. Maria has already had the opportunity to represent Ireland at a games.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭ultrapercy


    tunguska wrote: »
    Im shocked by that. Maria regularly gives catriona jennings a pasting. Has jennings ever finished ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race?
    Thats a joke.
    always respect your views and opinions, and your argument is valid but be fair to two great athelets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    That's a bit unfair. How many times have they raced over the marathon? Jennings is 5 years younger and is improving rapidly. Maria has already had the opportunity to represent Ireland at a games.

    How is it unfair, its calling a spade a spade. Tell me when did catriona jennings ever finish ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race? Dublin marathon last year maria finished a full 3 minutes ahead of jennings. Rome marathon is a lot tougher than rotterdamn. If the two were to run a marathon tomorrow maria would beat her, that im 100% sure of.
    ultrapercy wrote: »
    always respect your views and opinions, and your argument is valid but be fair to two great athelets.

    I dont want to take you up the wrong way, so could you elaborate on how Im being unfair?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 907 ✭✭✭macinalli


    tunguska wrote: »
    Rome marathon is a lot tougher than rotterdamn.

    This was always going to be a hard call as no two marathons are the same, but do you think this was a bad decision by Maria to race in Rome? Given that the likes of Rotterdam & Berlin are supposed to be faster courses, it seemed odd to pick a course like Rome for such an important race.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    macinalli wrote: »
    This was always going to be a hard call as no two marathons are the same, but do you think this was a bad decision by Maria to race in Rome? Given that the likes of Rotterdam & Berlin are supposed to be faster courses, it seemed odd to pick a course like Rome for such an important race.

    Yeah I think rome was a mistake. Maybe she thought rotterdamn was too close to the olympics? I dunno. Just realised, maria beat ava hutchison in dublin marathon aswell last year, by 2 minutes. So head to head, over the marathon distance, in the same race, shes beaten two out of the other 3 women.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    tunguska wrote: »
    Yeah I think rome was a mistake. Maybe she thought rotterdamn was too close to the olympics? I dunno. Just realised, maria beat ava hutchison in dublin marathon aswell last year, by 2 minutes. So head to head, over the marathon distance, in the same race, shes beaten two out of the other 3 women.

    Not to mention proving current fitness with her 10k last week

    Guess they are looking towards long term development (right or wrongly).

    Interestingly poor race choice has cost many runners there spots this year in a number of Marathon teams (G Mutai and T Kebede in Boston come to mind)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,513 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    It's really unfortunate as she's in staggering shape (amazing run in the Ballycotton 10 mile in March), super performance last week, so she didn't just peak for her marathon, she's been in great shape for the last few months (criteria A). Has beaten most of the other runners (Criteria C and Criteria D). Then there's Criteria B, which must be made-up on the spot to give the selectors an 'out'. :)

    Really sad for her to miss out like this. At the end of the day though, the goal for this event will be blooding the athletes, and trying to finish as high up in the finishing rankings as possible (and it would be difficult to predict who that might be, in this sort of unique race environment).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭jailhouse_dave


    tunguska wrote: »

    If the two were to run a marathon tomorrow maria would beat her, that im 100% sure of.
    ultrapercy wrote: »

    Grounds for an appeal right there


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    ecoli wrote: »
    Not to mention proving current fitness with her 10k last week

    Missed that one. What 10k did she run? What was her time?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    tunguska wrote: »
    Missed that one. What 10k did she run? What was her time?

    33.22 on track at the gradeds


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 810 ✭✭✭liamo123


    tunguska wrote: »
    Im shocked by that. Maria regularly gives catriona jennings a pasting. Has jennings ever finished ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race?
    Thats a joke.

    I can see where ur coming from but personally im delighted Caitriona got picked.... Finally injury free and she would have gone slightly faster in Rotterdam except for an unfortunate incident about 4 miles from home... She can and will go alot quicker and TBH it would'nt surprise me if she's 1st of the Irish contingent home in london....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,243 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    I'd say she'll appeal. Would bet on it even.

    Maybe hold your horses until PP sets the book:
    “The decision has been made and I will be accepting it,” said Letterkenny AC runner McCambridge, who was seeking selection to her second Olympics, having competed in the 5,000 metres in 2004.

    “It has been an agonising wait but at least now it’s over and I can get on with other things because these past couple of weeks have been difficult with so much riding on something that is actually out of your hands. The wait just consumes your life, it’s difficult to concentrate and hard to sleep. One minute you are confident and the next you feel down in the dumps.

    “Like the others in I was keeping my fingers crossed that I would make it but at least now the agonising wait is over and I can get on with other things.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭ultrapercy


    tunguska wrote: »
    How is it unfair, its calling a spade a spade. Tell me when did catriona jennings ever finish ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race? Dublin marathon last year maria finished a full 3 minutes ahead of jennings. Rome marathon is ka lot tougher than rotterdamn. If the two were to run a marathon tomorrow maria would beat her, that im 100% sure of.



    I dont want to take you up the wrong way, so could you elaborate on how Im being unfair?
    I think it was a realy tough call, no way was it clear cut. Whatever 3 were picked it could be argued. Personaly I would have picked Jennings and Mc Cambridge but I cant make a convincing arguement to leave any of them out.What I mean is respect the girls picked they achieved the standard and deserve their place, not more than Maria, just deserve.Life isnt always fair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    I think it was a realy tough call, no way was it clear cut. Whatever 3 were picked it could be argued. Personaly I would have picked Jennings and Mc Cambridge but I cant make a convincing arguement to leave any of them out.What I mean is respect the girls picked they achieved the standard and deserve their place, not more than Maria, just deserve.Life isnt always fair.

    I really dont think jennings deserves to go above any of the other 3 women. You gotta take race results head to head into account, and other race results in national competition. What national competitions has catriona jennings won? Nothing. Ava hucthinson won the national half marathon last year. Maria mc cambridge the year before(over an absolute beast of a course). Linda byrne is national marathon champion and won the inter-clubs cross country championships(beating ava hutchinson by a country mile) plus she pretty much single handed won the road relays for dsd a few weeks ago. In the frank duffy 10miler in august(which serves as dublin10mile championships) maria mc cambridge beat jennings by nearly 90seconds and as I already said, in the dublin marathon. Add to that the 10k she ran in last week in 33xx. Jennings ran the standard in rotterdamn and thats it. Shes done nothing else, unlike the other 3 women who've all won national races against stiff competiton.
    I just think its a bizarre decision. I get the blooding new talent argument but at the same time, I think thats an old horse thats carted out to fob people off. Theres blooding new talent and then theres being fair and looking at consistancy of performances.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Can she go in the 10k with a B standard?


    She is over a min off the B Standard (32.10) but I reckon theoretically they could perhaps send her if she got it given the extenuating circumstances


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭ultrapercy


    tunguska wrote: »
    I really dont think jennings deserves to go above any of the other 3 women. You gotta take race results head to head into account, and other race results in national competition. What national competitions has catriona jennings won? Nothing. Ava hucthinson won the national half marathon last year. Maria mc cambridge the year before(over an absolute beast of a course). Linda byrne is national marathon champion and won the inter-clubs cross country championships(beating ava hutchinson by a country mile) plus she pretty much single handed won the road relays for dsd a few weeks ago. In the frank duffy 10miler in august(which serves as dublin10mile championships) maria mc cambridge beat jennings by nearly 90seconds and as I already said, in the dublin marathon. Add to that the 10k she ran in last week in 33xx. Jennings ran the standard in rotterdamn and thats it. Shes done nothing else, unlike the other 3 women who've all won national races against stiff competiton.
    I just think its a bizarre decision. I get the blooding new talent argument but at the same time, I think thats an old horse thats carted out to fob people off. Theres blooding new talent and then theres being fair and looking at consistancy of performances.
    I dont want to argue just for arguements sake but to be totaly fair the 3 fastest runners were picked(am I right in saying this?). Taking into account other races at other times over other distances isnt fair either. Im not making a case for McCambridges ommission just saying it was a hard choice.No matter who was left out they would rightly have a justifiable griveance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    ultrapercy wrote: »
    I dont want to argue just for arguements sake but to be totaly fair the 3 fastest runners were picked(am I right in saying this?). Taking into account other races at other times over other distances isnt fair either. Im not making a case for McCambridges ommission just saying it was a hard choice.No matter who was left out they would rightly have a justifiable griveance.

    Yeah I know, not into arguing for the sake of argument so I'll leave it at that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭rom


    Very hard for Maria, Course record in Ballycotton this year was some run.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    tunguska wrote: »
    How is it unfair, its calling a spade a spade. Tell me when did catriona jennings ever finish ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race? Dublin marathon last year maria finished a full 3 minutes ahead of jennings. Rome marathon is a lot tougher than rotterdamn. If the two were to run a marathon tomorrow maria would beat her, that im 100% sure of.



    I dont want to take you up the wrong way, so could you elaborate on how Im being unfair?


    Rotterdam was running 90s slow this year (force 5 wind) unless you were hiding in a group
    which catriona wasnt. That means that she was easily in sub 2.35 shape. Marias pb is 2.35.30 in good conditions on a fast course. That means that catriona ran a better marathon in Rotterdam than marias best marathon. The question is who would run faster in London? If catriona even repeats her marathon performance from Rotterdam then one would have to
    back her. If she impoves again with another big aerobic stimulus then shell go lower again.

    The object of any selection is optimum performance for Ireland. It seems to me, tough as it is, that catriona is more likely to run faster. The weakest marathon btw I thought was avas but it was fastest which made her safe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    T runner wrote: »
    . Marias pb is 2.35.30 in good conditions on a fast course.

    Not a chance. Maria ran that time in dublin and rotterdamn is far easier than dublin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    tunguska wrote: »
    Not a chance. Maria ran that time in dublin and rotterdamn is far easier than dublin.

    She ran 2.36xx in Dublin 4 years ago. She ran her pb in Paris years ago. Paris on a good day runs over a minute quicker than Rotterdam in a force 5 wind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Peterx


    Very hard for Maria to be the one that doesn't go though. All of them worked very hard for it and any of them would have compelling arguments if they weren't picked.

    I'm delighted for the other 3 she has decided not to appeal, as she said herself the uncertainty of not knowing was was nearly the worst thing and to have it thrown back into the air again after hearing the selection would not be pleasant for anyone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Burgman


    tunguska wrote: »
    What national competitions has catriona jennings won? Nothing. Ava hucthinson won the national half marathon last year. Maria mc cambridge the year before(over an absolute beast of a course).

    Please be fair and accurate when making assertions: Caitriona Jennings won the national half marathon the year before that again (i.e. 2009 in Ballybofey, not an easy course).

    You could well be right about the head to head but, in my opinion, Jennings, although not a world beater, has great toughness and can be guaranteed to run a PB in London.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Dejected runner will not appeal decision
    TOM O'RIORDAN

    ATHLETICS: MARIA McCAMBRIDGE put on a brave face yesterday after learning that she was the marathon runner to lose out in the selection process for the three women who will make up the Irish challenge in the event for the Olympic Games in London during the first two weeks in August.

    She will not take up the option of lodging an appeal against the decision which was made yesterday by the five-member Athletic Ireland selection committee.
    ...
    The disappointing news was delivered in a phone call to McCambridge by Kevin Ankrom, the AAI performance director. “I know there is an appeal process but I could not see the selectors going back on their decision. It would be just impossible for them and so I’ll be taking this decision on the chin.”

    If there was one regret being held by McCambridge it was opting for the Rome marathon to get the time and not one of the other big city events. “I just feel I made a bad choice in opting for Rome rather than somewhere else, like LA, because the course in Rome was very difficult and I had some awful problems with the cobblestones.Now I will try and pick up the pieces for Dublin in October because I still think there is a fast marathon in my legs.”


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