Alleged drug dealer allowed to go to euro 2012

chocksaway · 18-05-2012 08:10AM #1

Just seen in the metro this morning that a man accused of being a cocaine dealer was given his passport back so he can go to euro 2012. That's fine- innocent until proven guilty and all that. Thing is though that he's on free legal aid. surely if he can afford to Feck off to Europe for a few weeks he can pay his own legal fees. Is there any research done at all to see if someone can or can't pay the costs!

galwayrush · 18-05-2012 08:14AM

chocksaway wrote: »

Just seen in the metro this morning that a mam accused of being a cocaine dealer was given his passport back so he can go to euro 2012. That's fine- innocent until proven guilty and all that. Thing is though that he's on free legal aid. surely if he can afford to Feck off to Europe for a few weeks he can pay his own legal fees. Is there any research done at all to see if someone can or can't pay the costs!

Tribunal anybody?:rolleyes:

suicide_circus · 18-05-2012 08:14AM

Well you see, while he was dealing he could afford to buy flights, match tickets etc. Now that he's been stung, cash flow has dried up so he cant afford legal representation.

chocksaway · 18-05-2012 08:18AM

Can't believe the judge just gave it back to him. Gonna look pretty redfaced if he doesn't come back. He's facing a minimum 10year sentence!

vibe666 · 18-05-2012 08:18AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well you see, while he was dealing he could afford to buy flights, match tickets etc. Now that he's been stung, cash flow has dried up so he cant afford legal representation.

yep, one of the pitfalls of being self employed.

stovelid · 18-05-2012 08:23AM

Who gives a f+ck.

One less person to foot a prison bill for.

forfuxsake · 18-05-2012 08:27AM

Why should an innocent person(which we presume he is) be forced to pay to defend himself against false allegations?(which we presume they are).

chocksaway · 18-05-2012 08:27AM

I care. It's the principle of the matter. He was arrested, released on bail, given back his passport and told he doesn't have to sign on until he comes back. Gives the impression that its ok to deal drugs and that the courts Will go easy on you.

chocksaway · 18-05-2012 08:33AM

forfuxsake wrote: »

Why should an innocent person(which we presume he is) be forced to pay to defend himself against false allegations?(which we presume they are).

He had them in his house and near by location. That's fairly cut and dry for me. They ain't no false allegations to me anyway. But hey I ain't no lawyer so my opinion isn't worth a whole lot. Just think the whole thing is ass backwards!

conorhal · 18-05-2012 08:34AM

stovelid wrote: »

Who gives a f+ck.

One less person to foot a prison bill for.

He's on bail, not in prison. So it's one less person signing on at a Garda station once a week actually.

What this case highlights is how rediculously lax the courts are regards giving bail in the first place, and the conditions of that bail in the second.
The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering, you only have to look at the number of people up un court on their 50th or 60th conviction to know that. Logic would also dictate that anybody in their twenties with 60 convictions probably commited most of those crimes under licence, otherwise they must all have been comitted in one massive crime spree on the one day they had been out of jail in the last 10 years.

A fellow parishoner at my folks church was murdered by her dangerous, drug adict son who was out on bail, he had absconded and a warrent was issued for his arrest.
What's sickening about the whole case is the fact that Guards knew exactly where he was, they couldn't not, he was well known to them, highly visible and didn't exactly stay away from any of his old haunts, but because the offence was petty dealing they just couldn't be bothered picking him up, net result, a woman was beaten and tortured over the course two days untill she died because she refused sign over her house to her son.
Judges need to think about cases like this when they consider bail applications. In fact the judges in this country need a right good Bishop Brennan-ing.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 18-05-2012 08:36AM

when you say drug dealer do you mean several million euro worth of meth and assault rifles, or a few 100 bags of coke and an ounce of weed....

chocksaway · 18-05-2012 08:40AM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

when you say drug dealer do you mean several million euro worth of meth and assault rifles, or a few 100 bags of coke and an ounce of weed....

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

Pal · 18-05-2012 08:47AM

"Football isn't a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that"

blatantrereg · 18-05-2012 08:55AM

Bail is only not granted if they think you'll run off. It's unrelated to the severity of the offence. You are not supposed to be considered guilty of the offence while on bail after all.

stovelid · 18-05-2012 08:59AM

chocksaway wrote: »

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

Not enough to keep Gerry Ryan and Katy French going until the early house, basically.

lividduck · 18-05-2012 09:00AM

chocksaway wrote: »

I care. It's the principle of the matter. He was arrested, released on bail, given back his passport and told he doesn't have to sign on until he comes back. Gives the impression that its ok to deal drugs and that the courts Will go easy on you.

You obviously missed the bit about him being accused not convicted.

conorhal · 18-05-2012 09:02AM

blatantrereg wrote: »

Bail is only not granted if they think you'll run off. It's unrelated to the severity of the offence. You are not supposed to be considered guilty of the offence while on bail after all.

Well it should be, logic dictates that the severity + the liklihood of a conviction (this guy seems to have been caught bang to rights) tend to be directly proportional to the level of flight risk. Do the simple maths, certian conviction + long sentence + likley drugs contacts on the contenent = high liklihood of skipping bail. Not to mention the high level of violence and intimidation that tends to accompany his 'profession'.

When it comes to guys like this there should be a good compelling reason to give him bail (I don't consider a football match to be one of them) not a good reason not to.

lividduck · 18-05-2012 09:03AM

conorhal wrote: »

He's on bail, not in prison. So it's one less person signing on at a Garda station once a week actually.

What this case highlights is how rediculously lax the courts are regards giving bail in the first place, and the conditions of that bail in the second.
The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering.
A fellow parishoner at my folks church was murdered by her dangerous, drug adict, son who was out on bail, he had absconded and a warrent was issued for his arrest. What's sickening about the whole case is the fact that Guards knew exactly where he was, they couldn't not, he was well known to them, highly visible and didn't exactly stay away from any of his old haunts, but because the offence was petty dealing they just couldn't be bothered picking him up, net result, a woman was beaten and tortured over the course two days untill she died because she refused sign over her house to her son.
Judges need to think about cases like this when they consider bail applications. In fact the judges in this country need a right good Bishop Brennan-ing.

The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering....Link to evidence for this wild claim?

chocksaway · 18-05-2012 09:04AM

stovelid wrote: »

chocksaway wrote: »

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

Not enough to keep Gerry Ryan and Katy French going until the early house, bnbasically.

And the public outcry when they od! Them be's the risks. Natural selection at its finest I think.

El Weirdo · 18-05-2012 09:05AM

mod

Thread title amended to reflect that this man hasn't been convicted yet.

Please remember that.

/mod

Turpentine · 18-05-2012 09:05AM

I always thought one of the conditions of bail was that you couldn't leave the jurisdiction, i.e surrender your passport etc.

Surely this fella is now a "flight certainty" rather than a "flight risk", the only question is wether or not he bothers to come back.

chocksaway · 18-05-2012 09:08AM

Turpentine wrote: »

I always thought one of the conditions of bail was that you couldn't leave the jurisdiction, i.e surrender your passport etc.

Surely this fella is now a "flight certainty" rather than a "flight risk", the only question is wether or not he bothers to come back.

Exactly! He's facing a minimum of ten years if convicted. That's a big incentive not to come back.

conorhal · 18-05-2012 09:22AM

lividduck wrote: »

The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering....Link to evidence for this wild claim?

Read the link, 25% of crime is commited by suspects on bail.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/suspects-on-bail-commit-25pc-of-recorded-crimes-1393774.html
And that's before Shatter decided that the revolving door's RPM's weren't high enough.

It doesn't take a feckin' genious to work out that anybody in their twenties up in court on their 60th conviction (and there's no shortage of them) probably commited most of those crimes while under licence, otherwise they must all have been comitted in one massive crime spree on the one day they had been out of jail in the last 10 years.

"Figures obtained by Fine Gael's justice spokesman Charlie Flanagan show alarming statistics relating to crimes committed by people on bail.
The figures released to Mr Flanagan reveal that, since 2008, people on bail committed 15 murders, 47 sexual offences, 1,681 car theft offences, 508 burglaries, 122 aggravated burglaries (that is, burglaries accompanied by violence or threats), and 70 murder threats.
The greatest offender in the history of the State in relation to committing crime while on bail is undoubtedly Eamon Dunne, who was shot dead in Cabra two months ago. Dunne had been on bail since 2002, when he was caught by gardai with a bound and gagged man in the boot of his car, and whom he was probably intending to kill or torture. He was on bail at that stage on firearms offences. Dunne succeeded in staying free on bail for more than seven years, during which he was involved, gardai estimate, in 17 murders."

lividduck · 18-05-2012 09:24AM

conorhal wrote: »

Read the link, 25% of crime is commited by suspects on bail.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/suspects-on-bail-commit-25pc-of-recorded-crimes-1393774.html
And that's before Shatter decided that the revolving door's RPM's weren't high enough.

It doesn't take a feckin' genious to work out that anybody in their twenties up in courth on their 60th conviction probably commited most of those crimes while under licence, otherwise they must all have been comitted in one massive crime spree on the one day they had been out of jail in the last 10 years.

"Figures obtained by Fine Gael's justice spokesman Charlie Flanagan show alarming statistics relating to crimes committed by people on bail.
The figures released to Mr Flanagan reveal that, since 2008, people on bail committed 15 murders, 47 sexual offences, 1,681 car theft offences, 508 burglaries, 122 aggravated burglaries (that is, burglaries accompanied by violence or threats), and 70 murder threats.
The greatest offender in the history of the State in relation to committing crime while on bail is undoubtedly Eamon Dunne, who was shot dead in Cabra two months ago. Dunne had been on bail since 2002, when he was caught by gardai with a bound and gagged man in the boot of his car, and whom he was probably intending to kill or torture. He was on bail at that stage on firearms offences. Dunne succeeded in staying free on bail for more than seven years, during which he was involved, gardai estimate, in 17 murders."

So as a percentage of all crimes committed in that period it was very small as oppossed to staggering. Thanks.

Captain Darling · 18-05-2012 09:25AM

He only wants to go to da bleedin euros bud!!

Jackeen!

IrishAm · 18-05-2012 09:26AM

chocksaway wrote: »

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

So, he went have halves on a quarter oz.

IrishAm · 18-05-2012 09:27AM

Captain Darling wrote: »

Jackeen!

No, he is a Dublin lad apparently. Not a Cork lad.

conorhal · 18-05-2012 09:29AM

lividduck wrote: »

So as a percentage of all crimes committed in that period it was very small as oppossed to staggering. Thanks.

I think that a quater of all cime being comitted by people on bail IS bloody staggering, and those are 2008 figures. I can only assume that figure has gone up since Shatter threw open the prison doors to address cost and resourcing issues.
Shrug if you like and consider it nothing, but I assure you that the families of the 15 murder victims commited by thugs on bail probably don't.

IrishAm · 18-05-2012 09:38AM

conorhal wrote: »

Shatter threw open the prison doors to address cost and resourcing issues.

Shatters a bollix.

Anyway, 13 grands worth of white is, given Gardai value a gram at 100 euro, 130 grammes of the stuff(max). Not exactly Pablo Escobar type material.

The chaps only a link in the chain.

Legalise it.

Tax it.

Kill off the lads trade who are dealing millions of euro worth of the shit.

Ellis Dee · 18-05-2012 09:38AM

chocksaway wrote: »

He had them in his house and near by location. That's fairly cut and dry for me.

He is alleged to have had them in his house. That has not yet been proved in court. But if you just believe claims/rumours without their being tested in a court of law, I suppose everything is cut and dry for you.

chocksaway wrote: »

They ain't no false allegations to me anyway. But hey I ain't no lawyer so my opinion isn't worth a whole lot. Just think the whole thing is ass backwards!

In the bit I have bolded, I see the beginning of wisdom. One day you may attain enough enlightenment to recognise the importance of the principle of presumption of innocence and acknowledge that everyone deserves a fair trial.:):)

pickarooney · 18-05-2012 09:39AM

What's it this week, are we looking for drug dealers to be executed on sight or for all drugs to be legalised? I can never keep up.

Alleged drug dealer allowed to go to euro 2012

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