Back in my day...

strobe · 17-05-2012 03:26PM

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/child.html

16 year old James Booty suffered [hanging] at Tyburn on Monday, the 21st of May 1722 for the rape of a five year old girl.

16 year old Giles East was executed at Surrey’s Horsemonger Lane prison on the 20th of January 1823 for raping a little girl.

On Saturday 18th March 1738, sixteen year old Mary Grote or Groke was tied a hurdle and drawn along in a procession behind a cart containing two men, John Boyd and James Warwick, to Gallows Hill on the outskirts of Winchester in Hampshire. Here she was held until the two men had been hanged before being led to a large wooden stake nearby. She was chained to this and bundles of ******s placed round her. The executioner would have endeavoured to strangle her with a rope noose before igniting the fire and reducing the hopefully unconscious girl to ashes. Mary had been convicted of the Petty Treason murder, by poisoning, of her mistress, Justine Turner.

16 year old William Duell was hanged, along with four others, at Tyburn on the 24th of November 1740. He had been convicted of raping and murdering Sarah Griffin and was to be anatomised after execution. He was taken to Surgeon’s Hall for this but signs of life were discovered and he was revived and later had his sentence commuted to transportation.

Elizabeth Morton, aged fifteen, was hanged at Gallows Hill, Nottingham on the 8th of April 1763 for the murder of the two year old child of her employer, John Oliver.

At the Dorset Lent Assizes in Dorchester in March 1794, fifteen year old Elizabeth Marsh was convicted of the murder of her grandfather, John Nevil. In accordance with the provisions of the Murder Act of July 1752 she was required to be hanged two days later, which would have been a Sunday, a day on which executions were not permitted. As was normal the judge in her case delayed sentencing her to the end of the Assize on thus giving her an extra day of life. Elizabeth would have been kept in chains and only allowed bread and water between sentence and execution. She was hanged on Monday the 17th of March and was the first person to be executed outside the new County Gaol in Dorchester. Her body was afterwards given to local surgeons for dissection.

Ann Mead, aged sixteen was found guilty of the murder of Charles Proctor, aged sixteen months, by feeding him a spoonful of arsenic at Royston in Hertfordshire. She expiated her crime on the “New Drop” gallows outside Hertford prison on Thursday the 31st of July 1800, watched by a large crowd.

On the 6th of May 1806, 15 year old Peter Atkinson suffered at York Castle for cutting and maiming Elizabeth Stockton.

On the 22nd of March 1819, 16 year old Hannah Bocking became probably the youngest girl to be executed in the 19th century when she was publicly hanged outside Derby’s Friar Gate Gaol for the murder, by poisoning, of Jane Grant.

16 year old William Jennings became the last person to be hanged at Gallows Hill, Appleby in Westmoreland when he was executed on the 23rd of March 1829 for the rape of Agnes Corothwaite.

14 year old John Any Bird Bell was executed on the 1st of August 1831 at Maidstone in Kent for the murder of 13 year old Richard Taylor. John and his 11 year old brother, James, killed Richard Taylor for the sum of nine shillings (45p) which he was collecting from the Parish on behalf of his disabled father. They were tried on Friday, the 29th of July and because the second day after sentence would have been a Sunday, John was hanged on the Monday using the "New Drop" scaffold, erected outside Maidstone prison. Bell was probably the youngest person to be hanged in the 19th century.

Yep, yep, yep, things like this never used to happen back in the day, the modern world is fucked, the kids today are savages. Naturally I blame the internet, TV advertising, video games, porn, the lack of religious influence, poor manners being thought by parents and most of all the fact that they have no real punishment to fear when they are caught. If only all those things were different, there would never be these kinds of cases happening.

Crooked Jack · 17-05-2012 03:30PM

Woah. That was impressive. Well played sir.

Dudess · 17-05-2012 03:37PM

christmas2012 wrote: »

that is sick,but sick today could mean 'cool',there is no value on humanity today a lot of it is this pop and porn culture,years ago nobody had internet to look at porn all day or have transparent views on certain issues,you were expected to have an opinion of value,earn your grades etc,not spoonfed them,today its all very ambiguous and superficial..

Gas. :pac:

If only we could go back to the good old medieval days of widespread torture, rape, infant mortality, child labour, etc.

Depraved people of any age have always existed - discipline or no discipline.
I will concede the fact that kids aren't getting the bejaysus beaten out of them like 50 years ago, or don't have the threat of an industrial school hanging over them, has caused a diminishing of fear, but I know which I'd prefer.

Paddycrumlinman · 17-05-2012 03:44PM

Here’s the problem folks. This kid did not wake up one day and say to himself I’m going to go rape a young girl of 5. In every case like this in the same way as 80% of Prisoners around the world suffered abuse in their life’s in one way or another.

This is a child who did this, however, we do not know what triggered this off in his head. I’ve so many questions going through my mind with this individual. How was his behavior in general, how is his family, who took care of him and raised him? What external influences has this 14 year old being previously subjected to. Was he abused himself, sexually or physically? Was he a bully or being bullied? Did his family give a **** about him? Was he properly loved and wanted?

We don’t know any of the above and as a Society we need to look at issues like this from a sociological point of view. I’m pretty sure he was let down by family and state probably many times in his life. Again, kids do not wake up one morning and decide to be a rapist, there are underling issues which would have caused this and those my friends are the real issues at hand.

Society has gone to the dogs, always has been if were honest and we as humans need to get to the root of these issues. Not for one minute am I condoning what this human being did, however we need to look at the roots of the issues in hand with Society and as many folks have said, people don’t give a s hit about anyone else these days other than what they can take out of life themselves and foook everyone else.

The OP stated what is wrong with young people today. I would saying nothing because the people who are supposed to care for them don’t do their job. So it should be read, what is wrong with Adults that create children like this today.

ScumLord · 17-05-2012 03:49PM

Paddycrumlinman wrote: »

Society has gone to the dogs,

Society has not "gone to the dogs", we've been gradually improving from a state of wild, but it takes a long time. We've essentially been modifying standard animal instincts for thousands of years now.

We didn't start with a perfect society and let it slide, we started with nothing and have been developing civilised society from scratch. The barbarism humans can dish out is not at all surprising, the surprising part is that we're nothing like that most of the time.

hairyprincess · 17-05-2012 03:57PM

foxyboxer wrote: »

hairyprincess wrote: »

He needs rehabilitation. But will he get it? Doubtful.

His parents should be held to account to some extent

I'd be more concerned about the 5 year olds mental state tbh.

Absolutely, it goes without saying that the 5 year old will need some serious therapy. Nobody would deny that. But many would say that the 14 year old should be just thrown in jail. And then what happens when he gets out after four or five years? He goes on to do the same thing?

Jail is not the answer for someone so young who could very easily be rehabilitated. If he fails to cooperate then steps should be taken to ensure that he is never left alone with a child.

prinz · 17-05-2012 04:00PM

Confab wrote: »

Point to some statistics and I'll believe you. Otherwise that's just media hype.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/violent-behaviour-on-the-increase-in-primary-schools-survey-reveals-2181333.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7468377.stm

http://www.tyronetimes.co.uk/news/local/41-rise-in-teenage-offenders-1-2952241

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0122/crime.html

Most disturbing are the signs of increased violence among younger women who, at the most extreme level, are forming menacing American-style gangs on some inner-city housing estates. (Elizabeth Hurley, the actress and model was famously mugged by such a gang in London last year.) In a survey by Demos , the independent think-tank, it emerges that in the 15 to 17 age group, girls are more likely to take pleasure in violence than boys, suggesting that we may have a new generation of female aggressors in the making.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/girls-get-violent-1345290.html

Last month, a survey by the Association of Teachers and Lecturers found that more than three-quarters of primary school teachers believed pupils were becoming aggressive at an earlier age.
Fifty-five per cent said behaviour had worsened over the last five years and almost two-thirds had witnessed physical aggression from pupils.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/dec/31/suspended-violent-primary-school-pupils

Some 40% of teachers surveyed said student behaviour had got worse over the past two years, while 58% said it had worsened over the past five.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/apr/06/teachers-abuse-violence-pupils-parents

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301111405.htm

She adds: "We all expect to see rough and tumble but I have seen little ones acting out quite graphic scenes in the playground and there is a lot more hitting, hurting, thumping etc in the classroom for no particular reason."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17600454

The number of parents being terrorised and assaulted by their violent children is growing, parenting charities warn......A research project by Dr Rachel Condry, at Oxford University's Centre of Criminology, has so far concluded it is a "significant" and "increasing" problem in the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rise-in-parents-terrorised-by-their-children-7079798.html

Media hype, all of it.

Mr Benevolent · 17-05-2012 04:01PM

I love listening to people who say that society has gone to the dogs. They've obviously never learned anything useful about history, politics or society.

prinz · 17-05-2012 04:02PM

strobe wrote: »

Yep, yep, yep, things like this never used to happen back in the day, the modern world is fucked....

You've got 11 cases there spanning 100+ years.

Dudess · 17-05-2012 04:06PM

Confab wrote: »

I love listening to people who say that society has gone to the dogs. They've obviously never learned anything useful about history, politics or society.

Yeah it doesn't involve much thought - I mean, when you consider the sh1t that was acceptable in days of yore...

davet82 · 17-05-2012 04:10PM

strobe wrote: »

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/child.html

Yep, yep, yep, things like this never used to happen back in the day, the modern world is fucked, the kids today are savages. Naturally I blame the internet, TV advertising, the lack of religious influence, poor manners being thought by parents and most of all the fact that they have no real punishment to fear when they are caught. If only all those things were different, there would never be these kinds of cases happening.

*

*He rests his case :pac:

strobe · 17-05-2012 04:10PM

prinz wrote: »

You've got 11 cases there spanning 100+ years.

They are from capitalpunishmentuk. They are only a selection of my choosing from the link, of the cases from the surviving records that they could find, that resulted in the execution of the offender, where the offender was known to be under 18 years old. Not an exhaustive list of all 'heinous' crimes committed by minors during the time period.

Court records often did not give the age of defendants sentenced to death and in some cases the only guide to their age is how old they told the Ordinary they thought they were. Registration of births was not required prior to 1837. Executions of teenagers were not reported in early newspapers, where they existed, so it is not easy to trace all of the executions of juveniles in the 18th century. Here are some reliable examples, rather than a conclusive list.

Dudess · 17-05-2012 04:10PM

The most famous quote condemning the youth of the day was written in Ancient Greece.

toexpress · 17-05-2012 04:16PM

Dudess wrote: »

Rape of a small child, kids not calling adults Mr/Mrs/Miss whatever (Jesus I'd cringe if someone referred to me by a title) - does not compute.

Are you trying to compare the two? Are you saying a child calling an adult is the same as a teenager raping a child?

kylith · 17-05-2012 04:18PM

prinz wrote: »

Most disturbing are the signs of increased violence among younger women who, at the most extreme level, are forming menacing American-style gangs on some inner-city housing estates. (Elizabeth Hurley, the actress and model was famously mugged by such a gang in London last year.)

I suggest you do some reading on the teddy boys of the '50s or the mods and rockers in the '60s. Gang culture is nothing new.

prinz · 17-05-2012 04:19PM

strobe wrote: »

They are from capitalpunishmentuk. They are only a selection of my choosing from the link of the recorded cases they could find that resulted in the execution of the offender. Not an exhaustive list of all heinous crimes committed by minors. Your a smart guy Prinz, c'mon now.

I know, I know, but I haven't tried to argue crap like that didn't happen in the past... but the teachers, charities, police forces, etc in the links I posted earlier must be imagining things according to some.

prinz · 17-05-2012 04:23PM

kylith wrote: »

Gang culture is nothing new.

Where did I suggest 'gang culture' was something new?

strobe · 17-05-2012 04:30PM

Domo230 wrote: »

You forgot to blame video games. :pac:

How silly of me, edited and video games and porn added.

hooradiation · 17-05-2012 04:49PM

prinz wrote: »

Media hype, all of it.

Yup. Pretty much.

prinz · 17-05-2012 04:53PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Yup. Pretty much.

Yeah I mean what kind of experience would teachers and school principals have of the changing attitudes of children over the years.

hooradiation · 17-05-2012 04:54PM

prinz wrote: »

Yeah I mean what kind of experience would teachers and school principals have of the changing attitudes of children over the years.

Are you suggesting they're immune to the same cognitive bias as the rest of us?

How simply fascinating, please tell me more.....

ScumLord · 17-05-2012 05:02PM

prinz wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/violent-behaviour-on-the-increase-in-primary-schools-survey-reveals-2181333.html

If only these women where kept under lock and key until their wedding day like in the good old days. It's almost impossible to keep them in line now that you can't beat them into submission any more.

prinz · 17-05-2012 05:10PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Are you suggesting they're immune to the same cognitive bias as the rest of us?.....

I'm suggesting that they don't read a newspaper and then decide everything has changed in the space of a couple of years... and not only a few teachers but the majority of those in numerous surveys.

I find it amusing that if you suggested kids are getting fatter nobody would bat an eyelid.

The King of Moo · 17-05-2012 05:13PM

prinz wrote: »

I'm suggesting that they don't read a newspaper and then decide everything has changed in the space of a couple of years... and not only a few teachers but the majority of those in numerous surveys.

I find it amusing that if you suggested kids are getting fatter nobody would bat an eyelid.

But everyone feels like that, it's human nature. Everyone thinks things were better in the old days, but facts usually tell us that in a lot of ways they weren't.
People have always felt like that, and probably always will. (though people were better at complaining about kids in the past :pac:)

I think what's crucial is that those were just surveys of opinions, without much in the way of statistics, it seems.

Battered Mars Bar · 17-05-2012 05:17PM

Very common crime OP, always has been unfortunately. However the rise of this hippidy hoppidy music is a matter of grave concern. If kids today aren't pretending to be african american they're trying to be hippies

prinz · 17-05-2012 05:19PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I think what's crucial is that those were just surveys of opinions, without much in the way of statistics, it seems.

...and the increasing numbers of parents reporting being abused at the hands of their children? Nostalgia and imagination. The massive increases in the numbers of young offenders and violent crimes involving young people being recorded.... oh it's the fault of the court system.

How do you put a statistic on an attitude problem?

hooradiation · 17-05-2012 05:21PM

prinz wrote: »

I'm suggesting that they don't read a newspaper and then decide everything has changed in the space of a couple of years... and not only a few teachers but the majority of those in numerous surveys.

Oh good.
Well thanks for clearing that up, I was worried you were trying to say something relevant to the whole cognitive bias thing.
The best part is that the way you refute this is linking of surveys of people opinions.

*slow clap*

prinz wrote: »

I find it amusing that if you suggested kids are getting fatter nobody would bat an eyelid.

The thing about weight is it's actually quantifiable, whereas peoples perceptions of those darn kids isn't.

The King of Moo · 17-05-2012 05:23PM

prinz wrote: »

...and the increasing numbers of parents reporting being abused at the hands of their children? Nostalgia and imagination. The massive increases in the numbers of young offenders and violent crimes involving young people being recorded.... oh it's the fault of the court system.

How do you put a statistic on an attitude problem?

It might be a case of more reports, but not necessarily a much greater number of crimes.

I imagine in the case of parental abuse, many parents in the past would've failed to report it out of fear or ridicule.

GAAman · 17-05-2012 05:24PM

hairyprincess wrote: »

He needs rehabilitation. But will he get it? Doubtful.

His parents should be held to account to some extent

I am so very thankful that you are not actually in a position to pass judgement on people.

prinz · 17-05-2012 05:24PM

hooradiation wrote: »

The thing about weight is it's actually quantifiable, whereas peoples perceptions of those darn kids isn't.

How quantifiable is the increase in young offenders? Or again is that just imagination?

Back in my day...

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