Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Tusky wrote: »

I don't expect instant gratification but I do expect continual progress. There was no progress this season. Our choice of signings were poor, we failed to put a single run of form together and we had a real problem for the entire season in scoring goals which was never rectified. I never felt like things 'clicked' this season for more than a game or two.

So, as I said, I don't expect instant gratification once I feel we are moving in the right direction. For example, when Rafa was manager I felt there was continual progress each season and there was a very clear direction.

You can only define "progress" by what you picked up at the start, a squad barely above the relegation zone is what we were.

I will be the first to say i dont give a monkeys about mickey mouse cups and league position is king, at the same time, Kenny took a team to 2 cup finals in his first and only full season. Kenny is a winner, always was and always will be, he knows better than anyone else what we expect in the league. He is as gutted as much as anyone about the league table. You give another season to shape up and then make a decision.

Ye reap what ye sow, the day LFC expects to harvest success off the back of giving a manager 1 year to get cl football is complete nonsense. Do you want a merry go round managerial seat?. Lets do a Chelsea shall we?, spend 70 mil on managers over 3 or 4 years?

How are you going to define success?, as a fan said to Jack Wilshere the other day after he had a go at someone else, 'you love your kids, when you are an old man what will you show your grand kids? signed and framed league tables of those glorious days you got 3rd in the league?'.

For me, success is more than qualifying for a Cup competition, and its built on the back of sound foundation, not haphazard trigger happy decisions.

Fair play to Dalglish for taking it so well and humbly.

Really unsure how to feel about it. I was on the fence with regards to his future, but I certainly wasn't against him being given another year.

When you looked at the statistics (points attained, matches won, goals scored etc..) our performance under him was unforgivable and you would say he had to go.

But when you actually watched all he games, for the first half of the season we played some decent stuff, and dominated for the most part, and with a few slices of luck and better finishing we might've been going into New Year in the top 4. After the Arsenal game we just collapsed in the league, focusing on the cup, and while that's not acceptable it maybe needs to be factored in when you judge his performance as manager. Margins are thin in this game and for most of the season I felt we were just on the wrong side of this thin line and that Kenny couldn't exactly be blamed entirely for that.

However, this conviction became weaker and weaker in the latter weeks of the league and, overall, I didn't quite trust Kenny in the transfer market this summer, which is massive, because it is through the market that you build for the longterm, and thus, de facto, I suppose I had big doubts about whether Kenny would be at the helm, progressing the team in 4 or 5 years time. If that's the way the owners felt also, you have to understand them and accept there's no point in dilly-dallying.

I don't know, very difficult to say if I'm happy about this or not. Feel very bad for Dalglish, desperately wanted him to succeed but at least he goes with his reputation somewhat intact - would've been horrible to see us continue to flounder next season. The Carling Cup win will always be remembered also.

My judgement of this decision will largely hinge on who we get in to replace him. If it's Rafa (and I actually think it will be, and I hope to god it is) then I think it's the right choice. Rafa will have a long-term plan and will bring everything that is needed back to the role.

If it's Martinez I would be very wary, and definitely question the sacking. But at the same time I would hope everyone would give him every chance to succeed. People will point to his poor win ratio/points tally with Wigan, and I see their point, but the reality is it's a completely different story managing Liverpool and no one knows if he could be successful or not.

I understand that this last point is a bit of a paradox, as I would use it as a reason not to hire him, but all I'm saying is that inexperienced young managers have been successful before and if he does get the job, I hope people give him every chance to succeed and don't use his record at Wigan to judge him (positively or negatively) before he gets a chance here.

The reality is we just don't know how he will do, he is something of an unknown quantity - this is a reason not to hire him imo, but also a reason not to judge before he has been given a decent shot. Not sure if this paradox makes any sense!

But ultimately, I would not understand taking a gamble on Martinez if a relatively sure option is available in Rafa, a man who will be itching to take the job (I imagine), who knows and loves the club, and who has what it takes to at least bring us back to the Champions League over he next few years. A man who left too soon and should be given a chance to finish what he started.

missingtime wrote: »

Pot, Kettle?

Reading that makes me feel like it was the right call now tbh

Sad to see him go but it was needed, we have to stop living in the past of former greats. Apart from our last two managers we usually keep them on for a long time, so with that I would like to see us getting in Villas-Boas. You can see that with enough backing behind him, and enough time, he can bring great things, I just hope that FSG can see this, AVB FTW!

rarnes1 wrote: »

There was a good few wanted Kenny gone in here.

Who do you want in lads?

AVB or Rafa.....both are realistic IMO

witnessrenegade wrote: »

Sad to see him go but it was needed, we have to stop living in the past of former greats. Apart from our last two managers we usually keep them on for a long time, so with that I would like to see us getting in Villas-Boas. You can see that with enough backing behind him, and enough time, he can bring great things, I just hope that FSG can see this, AVB FTW!

Agree but think that AVB is the most overrated manager ever and was proven to be out of his depth at Chelsea. Give me Martinez over him any day.

Hodgson got what he deserved.

Martinez would not be treated the same way, unless he behaved & performed the same way. Which he wouldn't.

rarnes1 wrote: »

There was a good few wanted Kenny gone in here.

Who do you want in lads?

Wouldn't mind AVB or Low tbh. Don't think Martinez, Rodgers or Lambert are not ready for the position.

Deschamps, Klopp would all be acceptable. Mourinho or Guardiola would be dream managers

we all know Ardents views on football are somewhat "skewed"

Martinez? - Why not Steve Bruce or Paul Jewell? Achieved the same.

Wildcard.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Hodgson has done a better job at West Brom than Martinez at Wigan....

No doubt about it. Get the feeling its the same crew shouting for Martinez that gave shout outs for Avran Grant and Owen Coyle after Rafa tbh.

K-9 wrote: »

Martinez wouldn't get the time needed because too many think he isn't good enough.

It's because he isn't. In 2005 we signed a UEFA Cup and twice La Ligue winning manager in Rafa Benitez.

In 2010 we signed Roy Hodgson, I'm not even gonna bother posting the ****e he won.

Lets not downgrade again by signing a manager whos only won League Two, the third division of English football.

We're Liverpool Football Club, granted not the powerhouse we used to be, but if we can't get the best at least make a ****ing stab at getting the next tier of managers.

This is not an attack on you K-9 btw, I'm not even sure where you personally stand on Martinez being appointed but I started typing a response and got more and more pissed at the thought of Martinez managing our club.