Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

missingtime · 14-05-2012 03:59PM

If he's not sacked, he'll get till Christmas.

DrumSteve · 14-05-2012 03:59PM

mike65 wrote: »

I'd say Dalglish will come back with a flea in his ear and 10-12 games to work with.

What's the point of that? Either get a new manager or don't. But a decision has to be made, it can't linger past the start of the season.

At times this year we played quite well I've thought but not put it in the back of the net and at other times we've played turgid muck and didn't deserve anything. The only thing we are consistant at is being inconsistant.

We have some good players at the club now, but a lot of dross. Gallagher was right, luck doesn't really play a part in it, we need to get our **** together.

spockety · 14-05-2012 04:01PM

missingtime wrote: »

If he's not sacked, he'll get till Christmas.

Another assertion that I would question.

If they think he is the man for the job they will back him all the way to next Summer and beyond.

If they don't think he is the man, they will simply get rid of him now.

Jesus Wept · 14-05-2012 04:02PM

mike65 wrote: »

I'd say Dalglish will come back with a flea in his ear and 10-12 games to work with.

What use is that? What quality and choice of managers are liable to be available in September/October. They will also have missed the transfer window and there may be new comings/goings from Kenny.

Chucky the tree · 14-05-2012 04:02PM

By keeping him on the FSG are putting themselves in a very tough position. If he narrowly missed out on 4th then he can't be sacked and even a manager of Kennys calibre should make us close enough to 4th. The big question is what will happen if we finish 6th and 4 points off? It's clearer progress but another year with CL but how can they sack him without a fan backlash?

electrobanana · 14-05-2012 04:05PM

Does anyone know what kind of team is playing Limerick tonight is it a youth team?

spockety · 14-05-2012 04:06PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

By keeping him on the FSG are putting themselves in a very tough position. If he narrowly missed out on 4th then he can't be sacked and even a manager of Kennys calibre should make us close enough to 4th. The big question is what will happen if we finish 6th and 4 points off? It's clearer progress but another year with CL but how can they sack him without a fan backlash?

Does anybody realistically think that Liverpool can make an easy jump back into the top 4 next season? I'm not so sure.

On that basis, you would have to ask why on earth they would want to get rid of him if he got us to within 4 points of the CL places next season?

missingtime · 14-05-2012 04:07PM

spockety wrote: »

Another assertion that I would question.

If they think he is the man for the job they will back him all the way to next Summer and beyond.

If they don't think he is the man, they will simply get rid of him now.

I can see that argument as well, but I think, given Kenny's history with the club, they might have to handle Kenny differently to other managers.

Unless, Kenny himself realises that he may not be able for it any more.

SlickRic · 14-05-2012 04:08PM

spockety wrote: »

I can't stand assertions like this.

Am I the only one?

nope.

i can handle all the criticism of the man in the world; i've dished out plenty of it, but assertions like "he's lost the dressing room" frustrate the fúck out of me no end.

we have absolutely no proof whatsoever. and from what i can tell, in 90% of games this season, the team, to a man, has put a shift in, so from the evidence we have, they're playing for him.

the same shít was bandied around during Rafa's reign, in his final season especially. i criticised Rafa during that season, some of it warranted, some of it not - i even thought time was about up for him during the year. I'm able to say now that i couldn't have been more wrong with that............but..........what i could never understand, was the assertion, out of the blue, that "he'd lost the dressing room". or the players didn't like him. and that that was his fault somehow. people cited the likes of Babel, Yossi, Agger, and perhaps most perplexingly, and the one that i'll use as an example...Torres.

i was told countless times that he didn't want to be at the club because of Rafa. this, remember, is a man who moulded Torres into the most feared striker in Europe at one time. Rafa was the one who told Torres to just stay up top, on the shoulder of defenders, and just worry about scoring, and he became the most prolific debut season striker in Premier League history. Torres has even since told how Rafa was one of the biggest reasons behind him becoming the player he did.

so, forgive me if i also can't stand it when people roll out the "he's lost the dressing room" line. it's the laziest line in existence. it's the last resort of someone who thinks a manager should be sacked, wants another reason, and so plucks that one out of his arse.

Kess73 · 14-05-2012 04:16PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

By keeping him on the FSG are putting themselves in a very tough position. If he narrowly missed out on 4th then he can't be sacked and even a manager of Kennys calibre should make us close enough to 4th. The big question is what will happen if we finish 6th and 4 points off? It's clearer progress but another year with CL but how can they sack him without a fan backlash?

If the team had come within 4 points of 4th place this season after the 6th place finish last season, then I think Kenny would be 100% safe.

But this season we came 8th and were 17 points off of 4th place and a massive 37 points behind the title winners. We were closer to relegastion that 4th this season seeing as Bolton got relegated with 16 points less than us.

In my opinion Kenny will have to do an amazing job of selling his future plans to convince the owners that the steps backwards this season in the league were a once off and will not be repeated next season.

Will the owners gamble on Kenny coming good, or will they gamble on getting in a new man and giving him some funds to rectify things? Time will tell, but if they decide on the second option then I would hope that they have already got their man lined up and that he has a good track record in the game to his name because replacing Kenny with another journeyman like Hodgson would be a disaster.

Have said this a lot during the season just gone, but next season is massive for the club in terms of finding out if we are going to become a regular midtable fixture or if we are going to be capable of competing for a CL spot right up to the end of the season.

NukaCola · 14-05-2012 04:17PM

SlickRic wrote: »

nope.

i can handle all the criticism of the man in the world; i've dished out plenty of it, but assertions like "he's lost the dressing room" frustrate the fúck out of me no end.

we have absolutely no proof whatsoever. and from what i can tell, in 90% of games this season, the team, to a man, has put a shift in, so from the evidence we have, they're playing for him.

the same shít was bandied around during Rafa's reign, in his final season especially. i criticised Rafa during that season, some of it warranted, some of it not - i even thought time was about up for him during the year. I'm able to say now that i couldn't have been more wrong with that............but..........what i could never understand, was the assertion, out of the blue, that "he'd lost the dressing room". or the players didn't like him. and that that was his fault somehow. people cited the likes of Babel, Yossi, Agger, and perhaps most perplexingly, and the one that i'll use as an example...Torres.

i was told countless times that he didn't want to be at the club because of Rafa. this, remember, is a man who moulded Torres into the most feared striker in Europe at one time. Rafa was the one who told Torres to just stay up top, on the shoulder of defenders, and just worry about scoring, and he became the most prolific debut season striker in Premier League history. Torres has even since told how Rafa was one of the biggest reasons behind him becoming the player he did.

so, forgive me if i also can't stand it when people roll out the "he's lost the dressing room" line. it's the laziest line in existence. it's the last resort of someone who thinks a manager should be sacked, wants another reason, and so plucks that one out of his arse.

Its a media thing....they love spouting that kind of ****e. Yesterday when Man city went 2-1 down the camera was panning on to Mancini every couple of minutes with commentators saying "Mancini looks lost" or something to that effect. The only time the media stop spouting ****e is when your winning.

Chucky the tree · 14-05-2012 04:17PM

spockety wrote: »

Does anybody realistically think that Liverpool can make an easy jump back into the top 4 next season? I'm not so sure.

On that basis, you would have to ask why on earth they would want to get rid of him if he got us to within 4 points of the CL places next season?

Not an easy one, but I think we should be easily enough getting close. Especially after spending £100m on players. Dalglish reminds me of Harry, solid manager but that's it. I don't think Harry will ever win anything big with Spurs no matter how much money he has, but he'll do a decent job with excellent players. Kenny I feel is the same, decent job when he recruits excellent players or has Lucas back fit. Even I could do a decent job if I had a very good squad. Plenty of people seems to think that Spurs should get rid of Harry if they want to push on, and he even got them into the top 4. As I said before Kenny shouldn't be judged on the league table, but all to often that is what happens.

14-05-2012 04:26PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

You'd be content with another season of mid-table medicrity? I said he should be given another season, if he doesn't manage a decent level of improvement in his 3rd season then I don't think he's good enough.

Sorry, I mis-interpreted your post.

I agree with what you said here.

The only way I'd like to see Kenny replaced would be with a top class manager. Otherwise leave him there.

ush · 14-05-2012 04:28PM

SlickRic wrote: »

nope.

i can handle all the criticism of the man in the world; i've dished out plenty of it, but assertions like "he's lost the dressing room" frustrate the fúck out of me no end.

we have absolutely no proof whatsoever.

8th place and a league campaign that collapsed when the squad realised that Kenny was out for cup success, instead of CL qualification.

kingshankly · 14-05-2012 04:29PM

There's no doubt if kenny wasn't an absolute legend and one of the nicest modest persons in world football he'd be out the door by now without question.
I love the guy but I never wanted him to take over last year but I hoped he would do well.
But it kills me to say he has to go he looks out of depth in the modern game and has turned a bit nasty and he is far from I had the privilege of spending a couple of hours with the man at a charity golf event 5 years ago and you couldnt meet a nicer more modest person who was full of 1 line wise cracks but I feel the pressure of turning his beloved club into a success is getting to him.
Hope he goes soon before he tarnishes his status which could happen even for the great kenny look at souness
Who was an absolute legend and one of the best midfielders to play for the club,
But you ask fans today about souness and they will tell you he's the guy who ruined the club!!

Kess73 · 14-05-2012 04:40PM

SlickRic wrote: »

nope.

i can handle all the criticism of the man in the world; i've dished out plenty of it, but assertions like "he's lost the dressing room" frustrate the fúck out of me no end.

we have absolutely no proof whatsoever. and from what i can tell, in 90% of games this season, the team, to a man, has put a shift in, so from the evidence we have, they're playing for him.

the same shít was bandied around during Rafa's reign, in his final season especially. i criticised Rafa during that season, some of it warranted, some of it not - i even thought time was about up for him during the year. I'm able to say now that i couldn't have been more wrong with that............but..........what i could never understand, was the assertion, out of the blue, that "he'd lost the dressing room". or the players didn't like him. and that that was his fault somehow. people cited the likes of Babel, Yossi, Agger, and perhaps most perplexingly, and the one that i'll use as an example...Torres.

i was told countless times that he didn't want to be at the club because of Rafa. this, remember, is a man who moulded Torres into the most feared striker in Europe at one time. Rafa was the one who told Torres to just stay up top, on the shoulder of defenders, and just worry about scoring, and he became the most prolific debut season striker in Premier League history. Torres has even since told how Rafa was one of the biggest reasons behind him becoming the player he did.

so, forgive me if i also can't stand it when people roll out the "he's lost the dressing room" line. it's the laziest line in existence. it's the last resort of someone who thinks a manager should be sacked, wants another reason, and so plucks that one out of his arse.

Total bollox to say that the team, to a man, put a shift in for 90% of the games played last season. If they had done so, then I would wager they would not have such a dismal points total and league position to their names.

That is not to say they gave up on their manager, it could just as easily say that a hell of a lot of them simply are not good enough to play beyond midtable quality over the course of a season.

I know I got to 26 games last season and I sure as hell did not see 23 games where every player put a shift in. What I saw this season from those on the pitch was plenty of examples of cowardly play, plenty of examples of sub par displays, and plenty of examples of pretty stupid play. 8th place and 17 points off of 4th place pretty much confirms this.

I do think that certain players over the course of the season did not put in the effort save for some games, and whether or not Kenny was a major factor in their "performances" is open for debate. I do think that in some games the players did leave him down, and I do think in some games Kenny let the team and support down with his tactics.

But the 90% of the time the whole team put in a shift is laughable. Only twice in the past 50 years has the club come 8th before the season just gone. Only 3 times in the past 99 years had we finished with 47 gaols or less scored before the season just gone. If not for El Hadji Diouf and his 3 league goals then this season would have seen the lowest ever total of league goals by a Liverpool number 9 in his debut season (Carroll finished the season with 4 league goals).

90% of the time my ass. If we had done so I reckon we would have gotten maybe 10 more points this season and at least looked like we were chasingChelsea, Newcastle, and Spurs.

mayordenis · 14-05-2012 04:40PM

ush wrote: »

8th place and a league campaign that collapsed when the squad realised that Kenny was out for cup success, instead of CL qualification.

You could be right, but that is just a guess you are making, don't dress it up as anything other than that.

amiable · 14-05-2012 04:41PM

Leiva wrote: »

Have to organise a STAGS party for the end of August for a bunch of us so I just might have to do it in Liverpool :P

Get a game in and fúck the mancs in the group .

Anyone got a cheap hotel in mind that would take 15+ lads on a stags?

The Ibis opposite Albert Dock is adequate.
I stayed there for a stag a few years back and it did the job.
There was over 20 of us on the stag.

Kess73 · 14-05-2012 04:42PM

amiable wrote: »

The Ibis opposite Albert Dock is adequate.
I stayed there for a stag a few years back and it did the job.
There was over 20 of us on the stag.

Must have been one big deer.

amiable · 14-05-2012 04:45PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Must have been one big deer.

Big enough for 20 midgets

ush · 14-05-2012 04:47PM

mayordenis wrote: »

You could be right, but that is just a guess you are making, don't dress it up as anything other than that.

Its an assertion. Thats all any of us here can post. On the last two pages of this thread valid opinions are dismissed as "assertions like this" merely because the one replying has another, and equally sweeping, opinion.

kingshankly · 14-05-2012 04:48PM

I like the liner use to be called the Gladstone years ago not too expensive and no security on the door if ya pull ( mind you married now and there would be none of that carry on any more) it's very central also.

Kess73 · 14-05-2012 04:49PM

amiable wrote: »

Big enough for 20 midgets

Did you go and practise sitting on the metal elk on the way into Cork in order to practise for your trip?

joe123 · 14-05-2012 04:51PM

PaulieC wrote: »

Well who the fúck else was going to win it so Joe?

Good point. Wow thats bad.

What was the age limit? Suarez is 24? Afaik young footballer of the year is 24 and under. If I was Henderson id be embarrassed taking it.

LuckyLloyd · 14-05-2012 04:52PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

By keeping him on the FSG are putting themselves in a very tough position. If he narrowly missed out on 4th then he can't be sacked and even a manager of Kennys calibre should make us close enough to 4th. The big question is what will happen if we finish 6th and 4 points off? It's clearer progress but another year with CL but how can they sack him without a fan backlash?

Why would you sack him (or his replacement) in such a scenario?

amiable · 14-05-2012 04:54PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Did you go and practise sitting on the metal elk on the way into Cork in order to practise for your trip?

Christ no. Afraid I'd get run over by a sulky

SlickRic · 14-05-2012 04:55PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Total bollox to say that the team, to a man, put a shift in for 90% of the games played last season...

fair enough.

my statement was a bit broad, and in hindsight, wasn't meant to be so literal. it's just that i took exception to the "they're not playing for the manager" line.

i think up until the FA Cup semi-final, most of the team put the effort in. there are a few individual examples that go against that. Henderson was cowardly for much of the season in his play. Carroll wasn't putting a proper shift in every game until a month or two ago. Downing is scared to ever take on a fullback. but for the most part, for most of the players, it was more a case of not being good enough than not playing for the manager.

after that semi, there were games that some players were an embarrassment. Fulham at home was the big one that epitomised it.

it's odd. the problem is a mix of players not being good enough and Kenny's tactics not being up to scratch. i'm not a wise enough man to pinpoint where the blame lies most. that is up to Kenny, and then ultimately the board and owners to decide and act accordingly.

Kess73 · 14-05-2012 04:59PM

amiable wrote: »

Christ no. Afraid I'd get run over by a sulky

Want to be some kind of all terrain sulky being pulled by steroid enhanced goats to get up to where the metal elk is.

Hehe now I have an image of Tackie in a cart with Tanngnjostr and Tanngrisnir providing the horse goat power.:D:D

LuckyLloyd · 14-05-2012 05:01PM

At the same time folks, players are only human. The objective was CL. After the Everton game we were in a situation where 1) CL was not possible 2) There was a big game down the line that would define what people thought of the season

I mean, yeah, you can argue that they are getting paid to put in 100% all the time - but you need to be realistic. Most of you don't put in 100% in work every day of the year, and it's hard sometimes when there isn't much at stake.

LimGal · 14-05-2012 05:04PM

Wow.....I knew had a strange feeling while reading this thread the past day and half..........no lurkers telling us how LFC should be run and what the club is doing wrong.

Was there a big match on yesterday or something?.....did a bunch of fans get the jam taken out of their doughnuts or something.......?

Very quiet in here indeed from the usual suspects!

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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