Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Mr Alan · 14-05-2012 12:05AM

K-9 wrote: »

Net spend Mr. Alan, net spend or does that only matter with Rafa?

Down boy!

Im not sure what you're hounding me about?! I think Martinez is a good manager & has done a good job at Wigan!

Doing well keeping a smaller club with little funds in the PL should not mean you're ready & able for the Liverpool job though!

Jayob10 · 14-05-2012 12:05AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Just to clarify are you saying you'd like to move Kenny on & bring Martinez in?

By saying this you're admitting that he is unable to get his squad playing to their full potential for the first 7 months of each season. Why is that being overlooked?

I am pointing out that fact, to show why he is flavour of the month.

He has caught the eye because of a strong finish and folk are quick to forget the poor start. When looking at Martinez as a candidate to manage Liverpool, people need to look at the bigger picture and judge him on the entire season, not just the last 9-10 games.

Its all about perspective, if Wigan had spent half the season in the top ten and slide down the table and narrowly avoided relegation on the same points total there would not be as much fanfare about Martinez. As I said, he is flavour of the month.

Definately a stylish manager in terms of how he likes the game to be played, but the jury is out as to whether he can get some substance into a top side.

There are many more aspects to being a great manager than advocating and playing good football.

amiable · 14-05-2012 12:06AM

K-9 wrote: »

G.K. wrote: »

People shouldn't be talking about Lambert in the same breath as some of the others. He's a manager clearly destined for big things, shown by his tactical nous and excellent scouting.

I'd rate Rodgers higher than Lambert tbh. Rodgers has done an exceptionable job in seeing a project through, with little funds, totally different from Lambert and managers who've done what he done before.

Tbh, it'll take a couple of seasons to see which opinion is right as that is all it is based on atm, opinions. I think Swansea are better placed.

Rodgers has a big blip on his CV from Reading.
I think Lambert got sacked by Wycombe too.

PhlegmyMoses · 14-05-2012 12:08AM

Not a Liverpool fan but Mr Alan is right. Martinez would be a disastrous appointment for Liverpool now. A bad start and he'd be slaughtered. You need someone who the fans will be patient with and willing to give time to.

The likes of Rodgers and Lambert should not even be considered. Wait until they have a few more PL seasons under their belt before they move upwards.

Jayob10 · 14-05-2012 12:10AM

amiable wrote: »

Rodgers has a big blip on his CV from Reading.
I think Lambert got sacked by Wycombe too.

The one plus for Martinez is that i'd imagine he will be very compatible working with a big name DOF. I'd imagine he can play the yes man and won't toss his toys out of the pram if a signing is made without his consent.

His job would be to coach and get the best out of what he is being given to him. May also attract a top name DOF aswell, in the knowledge they will be able to exercise power as to what players are signed etc...

Big name manager + big name DOF = potential for problems.

mada999 · 14-05-2012 12:13AM

spockety wrote: »

I think anyone embarrassed by Kennys interviews really needs to ask themselves why it matters a toss.

it matters a toss because he's representing the club

CSF · 14-05-2012 12:14AM

mada999 wrote: »

it matters a toss because he's representing the club

Seriously, that 'we didn't deserve to lose today' is getting a bit old at this stage.

G.K. · 14-05-2012 12:15AM

K-9 wrote: »

I'd rate Rodgers higher than Lambert tbh. Rodgers has done an exceptionable job in seeing a project through, with little funds, totally different from Lambert and managers who've done what he done before.

Tbh, it'll take a couple of seasons to see which opinion is right as that is all it is based on atm, opinions. I think Swansea are better placed.

Lambert's seen more of a project through than Lambert has, considering he got them sucessive promotions.

Also what do you mean by the part I emboldened?

amiable wrote: »

Rodgers has a big blip on his CV from Reading.
I think Lambert got sacked by Wycombe too.

He resigned, I should know as I'm a Wycombe native and resident.

Mr Alan · 14-05-2012 12:17AM

By the way, Gareth "not good enough to play for Liverpool" Barry won the league today.

Night lads. What a poxy season.

Francie Barrett · 14-05-2012 12:18AM

Vanolder wrote: »

I think ( more hope) that Henderson, Shelvey and Carroll are gonna be like New signings next season. They've had their year bedding in as such, with Carroll finally exercising his demons and Henderson the awe of a big money move.

There is no doubting how poor we have been at times, yet we battered many teams but for poor finishing and the woodwork letting us down.

Lucas back, and in form, and if these lads step up to the mantle like I think they are going to I think we won't be far off 4th next season and indeed, if a winger and stiker can be added I think we'll be there.

That's why I think Kenny deserves another year. I've been as frustrated and distraught with the season as anyone, and could do the easy thing and call for a change but I think Kenny deserves to see out what he started but the players have to stand up for him next year.

You are bang on the money. Yes, the team has underperformed, but the glimpses of form we have shown lately make it pretty clear that we are starting to click and that we are going in the right direction. From what I can see, we are really only 1 key player away from making a title challenge.

GK - Reina - easily one of the best in the league.
LB - Enrique - his form has dipped, but he has shown enough to demonstrate he is one of the best in the league at left back.
CB - Agger/Skrtel - when Agger is fit and has games, he is one of the best in the league. Skrtel has the odd error, but he has been immense this season. Both top 4 players easily.
RB - Johnson - top 4 definitely and certainly very close to the level of Sagna, who is the best in the league.
CM - Lucas - best defensive midfielder in the league, bloody key player.
CM - Gerrard - any team in the league would have him, world class.
CM - Henderson/Shelvey - between these two lads for the position. Henderson has been improving gradually and showing real class while Shelvey seems to have more explosiveness. One of these will definitely become a key player.
LW - Suarez - if not for suspension and our poor form, Suarez would have over 20 goals, vital player.
FF - Carroll - really started to link up well with Suarez in a Drogba battering ram role. I feel he will really deliver next season.
RW - Downing(?) - Bellamy and Maxi are too old, Downing has disappointed that is why there are question marks around him. If we could get the likes of a Jesus Navas or a Kagawa, we would really complete the team.

Really, either Downing steps it up, or we bring in a proven winger like Navas or Kagawa. The only other position that needs strengthening is central midfield. Gerrard and Lucas pick themselves, so surely one from Shelvey/Henderson/Adam/Spearing/Aquilani can play their way into the team?

Francie Barrett · 14-05-2012 12:20AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

By the way, Gareth "not good enough to play for Liverpool" Barry won the league today.

Night lads. What a poxy season.

Lots of mediocre players have won the league. City would still have probably won the league without Barry, which is more than can be said for Aguero, Silva, Yaya Toure, Kompany, Hart, etc!

kingshankly · 14-05-2012 12:21AM

Kenny is on the defensive the whole time he has changed big time since he got the job has got very bitter
I remember him as manager and player and was very coy and quiet in interviews always came across as embarrassed nearly but with a strange sense of humour.
Even when he was director of football when Rafa was in charge he was quite pleasant when interviewed .
But the pressure has got to him big time every week it's worse he's getting more bitter and more defensive with petty sarcastic answers pisses me off to be honest(although a lot of interviewers deserve it)

firemansam4 · 14-05-2012 12:21AM

Just a small point but Martinez's remarkable turnaround of Wigan's fortunes in keeping Wigan up this year kinda remind me of hodgson's job of keeping Fulhum up a few years back!!

Hmmm.....

Washington Irving · 14-05-2012 12:22AM

The only man I would rather see than Kenny as manager next season is Rafa. Martinez or Lambert nowhere near, maybe if Martinez can go a full season doing as well as he has in the last few weeks he could have a chance. I certainly don't want a managerial change unless those in charge are 110% sure they have the right man lest we be compared to Abramovich and his henchmen in London

Francie Barrett · 14-05-2012 12:34AM

El Spearo wrote: »

i get the feeling we wont be waiting very long to see transfers start.

I can't see there being too much activity, as I just said, we are 90% there.

Goalkeepers is fine.

Centre back is fine.

Right back is fine.

Aurelio is obviously gone. That means Enrique will need a backup option as Robinson probably isn't quite ready.

Central midfield we can probably lose a player. I guess Aquilani will move on as Spearing, Adam and Shelvey become the backups to Gerrard, Lucas and Henderson.

Wingers will see some change. Maxi looks set to go, even though he is a goal machine

Kuyt might feel it's time to leave while Cole might be moved on. Bellamy will be rotated. Suarez will probably continue in a freeish role. Downing I assume will be given one more chance. Sterling will definitely get more game time. One quality acquisition here could change the team completely in my opinion.

Strikers we probably need a back up to Carroll/Suarez. Pacheco/Eccleston haven't shown a lot

Francie Barrett · 14-05-2012 12:36AM

Saul-Goode9 wrote: »

The only man I would rather see than Kenny as manager next season is Rafa.

Yea, Rafa is the only manager we have a chance at getting who I would have confidence in. He definitely won't be back. I say we stick with Kenny and end speculation as it's so destructive to this team.

K-9 · 14-05-2012 12:38AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Down boy!

Im not sure what you're hounding me about?! I think Martinez is a good manager & has done a good job at Wigan!

Doing well keeping a smaller club with little funds in the PL should not mean you're ready & able for the Liverpool job though!

Nope.but it means more than Rodgers or Lambert. Martinez has done a remarkable job, I don't think it's Liverpool standard yet but any manager who isn't challenging for the title come Xmas will face huge criticism. Kenny got it at Xmas.

Jayob10 wrote: »

I am pointing out that fact, to show why he is flavour of the month.

He has caught the eye because of a strong finish and folk are quick to forget the poor start. When looking at Martinez as a candidate to manage Liverpool, people need to look at the bigger picture and judge him on the entire season, not just the last 9-10 games.

Its all about perspective, if Wigan had spent half the season in the top ten and slide down the table and narrowly avoided relegation on the same points total there would not be as much fanfare about Martinez. As I said, he is flavour of the month.

Definately a stylish manager in terms of how he likes the game to be played, but the jury is out as to whether he can get some substance into a top side.

There are many more aspects to being a great manager than advocating and playing good football.

Martinez was always going to struggle, that he got them from sure fire relegation to safety on the last day is astonishing, 7 wins out of 9 is Di Matteo form!

Some will get the point I'm getting at, some wont. Some just don't get context and everything is black & white and has easy answers

MickySticks · 14-05-2012 12:43AM

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SlickRic · 14-05-2012 12:46AM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

GK - Reina - easily one of the best in the league.
LB - Enrique - his form has dipped, but he has shown enough to demonstrate he is one of the best in the league at left back.
CB - Agger/Skrtel - when Agger is fit and has games, he is one of the best in the league. Skrtel has the odd error, but he has been immense this season. Both top 4 players easily.
RB - Johnson - top 4 definitely and certainly very close to the level of Sagna, who is the best in the league.
CM - Lucas - best defensive midfielder in the league, bloody key player.
CM - Gerrard - any team in the league would have him, world class.
CM - Henderson/Shelvey - between these two lads for the position. Henderson has been improving gradually and showing real class while Shelvey seems to have more explosiveness. One of these will definitely become a key player.
LW - Suarez - if not for suspension and our poor form, Suarez would have over 20 goals, vital player.
FF - Carroll - really started to link up well with Suarez in a Drogba battering ram role. I feel he will really deliver next season.
RW - Downing(?) - Bellamy and Maxi are too old, Downing has disappointed that is why there are question marks around him. If we could get the likes of a Jesus Navas or a Kagawa, we would really complete the team.

epic.

it's a wonder we were 37 points off the winners of the League.

Gerrard is severely on the wane, and we actually play better without him now, by and large.

Reina hasn't been the best in the league for at least 2 years.

Skrtel has been great this year, but generally just when Agger is in the team. he tends to get headless when he's not.

Enrique is fine, but offers nothing in the attacking 3rd, which a LB at the top level needs to do.

Johnson is nowhere near the consistency of Sagna, though i do like him and think he gets far too much flak off some.

Henderson and Shelvey both have potential, but they're nowhere near the level we need to compete yet - neither of them.

Carroll still needs consistency, and goals, to be considered good enough as part of a starting XI for a top 4 team.

bottom line, there's a lot of work to be done. we're not near where we need to be, and today's performance was a bit of a reminder.

8th is nowhere near good enough for Liverpool Football Club, and the players and staff should be embarrassed.

i don't trust Kenny with a lot of money, but i also don't want Rodgers or Martinez yet.

Lambert I'd consider as i do think there's something special about him. but if we're to remove Kenny, ideally, it would be a top class replacement, and proven at some sort of bigg-ish club.

we're not getting Klopp.

so Blanc, Deschamps or Pellegrini would do me.

or obviously Rafa.

it's such an important summer ahead, and i'm glad i'm not making the decision because I don't have a fúcking clue what to do

5starpool · 14-05-2012 01:13AM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You are bang on the money. Yes, the team has underperformed, but the glimpses of form we have shown lately make it pretty clear that we are starting to click and that we are going in the right direction. From what I can see, we are really only 1 key player away from making a title challenge.

GK - Reina - easily one of the best in the league.
LB - Enrique - his form has dipped, but he has shown enough to demonstrate he is one of the best in the league at left back.
CB - Agger/Skrtel - when Agger is fit and has games, he is one of the best in the league. Skrtel has the odd error, but he has been immense this season. Both top 4 players easily.
RB - Johnson - top 4 definitely and certainly very close to the level of Sagna, who is the best in the league.
CM - Lucas - best defensive midfielder in the league, bloody key player.
CM - Gerrard - any team in the league would have him, world class.
CM - Henderson/Shelvey - between these two lads for the position. Henderson has been improving gradually and showing real class while Shelvey seems to have more explosiveness. One of these will definitely become a key player.
LW - Suarez - if not for suspension and our poor form, Suarez would have over 20 goals, vital player.
FF - Carroll - really started to link up well with Suarez in a Drogba battering ram role. I feel he will really deliver next season.
RW - Downing(?) - Bellamy and Maxi are too old, Downing has disappointed that is why there are question marks around him. If we could get the likes of a Jesus Navas or a Kagawa, we would really complete the team.

Really, either Downing steps it up, or we bring in a proven winger like Navas or Kagawa. The only other position that needs strengthening is central midfield. Gerrard and Lucas pick themselves, so surely one from Shelvey/Henderson/Adam/Spearing/Aquilani can play their way into the team?

You are perhaps the most optimistic person on here I think, the epitome of the 'next year' spirit we all parody at times but yearn so badly for.

witnessrenegade · 14-05-2012 01:43AM

What's the craic with the away jersey and the 3rd kit? Any date announced for them to be released?

super_furry · 14-05-2012 01:51AM

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2012/05/12/liverpool-to-offer-man-united-forward-dimitar-berbatov-premier-league-lifeline/

Ok so it's Caughtoffside, so just pure speculation, but it could be an interesting move. If we could get him on the right wages, I'd be tempted.

Yakult · 14-05-2012 01:58AM

super_furry wrote: »

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2012/05/12/liverpool-to-offer-man-united-forward-dimitar-berbatov-premier-league-lifeline/

Going to be a looooooong summer :pac:

wonderfullife · 14-05-2012 02:14AM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You are bang on the money. Yes, the team has underperformed, but the glimpses of form we have shown lately make it pretty clear that we are starting to click and that we are going in the right direction. From what I can see, we are really only 1 key player away from making a title challenge.

GK - Reina - easily one of the best in the league.
LB - Enrique - his form has dipped, but he has shown enough to demonstrate he is one of the best in the league at left back.
CB - Agger/Skrtel - when Agger is fit and has games, he is one of the best in the league. Skrtel has the odd error, but he has been immense this season. Both top 4 players easily.
RB - Johnson - top 4 definitely and certainly very close to the level of Sagna, who is the best in the league.
CM - Lucas - best defensive midfielder in the league, bloody key player.
CM - Gerrard - any team in the league would have him, world class.
CM - Henderson/Shelvey - between these two lads for the position. Henderson has been improving gradually and showing real class while Shelvey seems to have more explosiveness. One of these will definitely become a key player.
LW - Suarez - if not for suspension and our poor form, Suarez would have over 20 goals, vital player.
FF - Carroll - really started to link up well with Suarez in a Drogba battering ram role. I feel he will really deliver next season.
RW - Downing(?) - Bellamy and Maxi are too old, Downing has disappointed that is why there are question marks around him. If we could get the likes of a Jesus Navas or a Kagawa, we would really complete the team.

Really, either Downing steps it up, or we bring in a proven winger like Navas or Kagawa. The only other position that needs strengthening is central midfield. Gerrard and Lucas pick themselves, so surely one from Shelvey/Henderson/Adam/Spearing/Aquilani can play their way into the team?

troll? 27 points off bottom , 37 points off top, 17 points off 4th.... unless that 1 key player is Lionel Messi or God then you should lay off the pills!!

cantgetright · 14-05-2012 02:27AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

troll? 27 points off bottom , 37 points off top, 17 points off 4th.... unless that 1 key player is Lionel Messi or God then you should lay off the pills!!

I think were four players off challenging top four. A striker, Left back, Right winger and Midfielder. Can't see us getting the funds for such players this window to improve the squad.

wonderfullife · 14-05-2012 02:31AM

also without hammering home the point.....Lucas is not the best DM in the league. He's a class player but YaYa Toure is by far and away the best in the league and it's not even close. The guy is an absolute beast. Fully fit Lucas though is in a tight run call for 2nd best, streets ahead of Carrick etc but Parker and Tiote and class acts themselves.

wonderfullife · 14-05-2012 02:35AM

cantgetright wrote: »

I think were four players off challenging top four. A striker, Left back, Right winger and Midfielder. Can't see us getting the funds for such players this window to improve the squad.

that's about right i reckon, but for anybody to say 1 player away from a title challenge smells of Trolling!!! Personally i think with the right changes in the summer , Liverpool could definitely be far closer to the business end of things next year. A lot will depend on Bayern Munich. If Bayern beat Chelsea, then Spurs will have a lot more funds to splash out in the summer. Arsenal will spend big this year for once, City will add, United will add. If chelsea beat bayern i cant see Spurs going overboard so that battle for 3rd-to-6th will be a little more reachable. Big Andy may yet come good i feel, but can't really see Henderson/Shelvey/Spearing proving themselves at the top level.

Jesus Wept · 14-05-2012 02:40AM

fml, had a few posts quoted and laptop crashed.

Someone suggested holding to Kenny and dumping him Jan if things don't pick up. There will be very few if any decent managers available in January, they will be signed up this summer.

amiable wrote: »

It was definitely Ged On the pitch at the Etihad. He was standing behind Yaya Toure as he was being interviewed

Yea, he has a habit of crashing parties it seems. Like after the Champions League final in 2005 when he made a beeline for the dressing room and wouldn't leave.

Jesus Wept · 14-05-2012 02:52AM

BTW, what a class overhead kick from me earlier? Pure class, pity it didn't go in, goal of the season.

Also, only watched the brief highlights but thought Doni made some good saves. He just needs some more game time to build his confidence.
Also, I don't like the way they pronounce his name wrong, it obviously should be pronounced DONNY as in STFU DONNY, not Do-nee.

Top lad.

Perhaps for the summer months which will be filled full of crazy speculation, someone could take the time to post a summation, a cliff notes post once or twice per day, we could take it in turns.

I'm going to suggest 12pm and 6pm. :cool:

I'll will keep my ear to the ground for any ITK knowledge that is circling.

Jesus Wept · 14-05-2012 03:12AM

oh yeah.

Apart from our dreadful league form, apart from his terrible interviews and attitude and apart from that it seems Kenny is unable to motivate the players for the last 6 months. Apart from my belief that he isn't getting the best out of the players like others could...

It is my view that he has largely ignored his brief.
The brief/objective was to get in the top 4.
I think he has ignored it based on the teams he picked for the cups - even in the early matches.

Next year I would like to see us generally play two different sides, a first team side in the league and a second string in the cups with minimal crossover game to game.

League side players to include the like of Doni, Ricky, Srtagger, GlenJo, Lucas, Gerrard (if we can find a way to get the best out of him and not to the detriment of the side, Suarez, Carroll and possibly Henderson if he can improve/we don't sign someone to play alongside Lucas though I hope we will. And hopefully adding a couple of quality additions and jigging it in terms of formation as Rafa sees fit. :cool::P

Second string side to include Reina, Carragher (if kept) Coates (I hope his development won't suffer playing alongside a player of Carragher's style), Flanagan, Kelly, Spearing, Adam, Sterling, a couple of the other youngsters, Downing if not sold, the other fringe players if not sold/moved on.

Looking at the club website it lists Kelly as a 'central defender', I think we ought to make our mind up. Perhaps he and Coates could build a partnership.

Is GlenJo better at right back or left back?

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

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