No wonder our infrastructure projects are so slow ...

BrianD · 10-05-2012 7:06pm #1

... When the highly paid advisors are two charged with running whore houses. You could not make this up!

Top state adviser is charged with running brothels (from independent.ie)

A SENIOR transport consultant who offered advice to the Government on a major infrastructure project was yesterday charged with operating brothels and living off the earnings of prostitutes. ... He is a senior consultant with Atkins Ireland, which has been involved in advising Fingal County Council and designing support services for the Metro West light rail project in Dublin.

According to Atkins Ireland's website, Mr Lyons is the company's contact point for the Metro West light rail project, and is their 'Head of Transportation Dublin'

Aside, I really wish that we could have state bodies that would have the experts on board to make decisions instead of deferring to outside consultants. We all know the real reason - so they won't be held accountable for a decision.

In the meantime, these consultants are having the last laugh and some would seem be too busy running other enterprises to have a laugh.

L1011 · 10-05-2012 7:38pm

He's quite possibly the most interesting transport consultant around, I'd guess.

CJhaughey · 10-05-2012 7:41pm

Reminds me of the Late William S Burroughs line:
It pays to pay the boys off.

cgcsb · 10-05-2012 8:02pm

I don't see how this affects his work, and I certainly don't see how it affects the speed of infrastructure projects in Ireland. Perhaps the OP can clarify?

Sponge Bob · 10-05-2012 11:28pm

Don't knock the man.

bk · 11-05-2012 9:07am

Well he sounds like a business focused, enterprise driven lad with loads of real world business experience of supply and demand. Probably the best consultant they ever had.

BrianD · 11-05-2012 9:57am

cgcsb wrote: »

I don't see how this affects his work, and I certainly don't see how it affects the speed of infrastructure projects in Ireland. Perhaps the OP can clarify?

Well I think it reflects badly on both the company that employs him and the public bodies that I have hired him. With most of these companies they make a big point of "our people" and their CVs.. Our people in this case have been charged with running an illegal enterprise and a particularly abusive one as well.

Running an illegal operation requires a lot if subterfuge and one has to question the integrity of a person who is charged with operating brothels. This is a sideline that must be preoccupying.

With consultancy the expertise is in the people. One wishes that the various bodies could hire decision making expertise rather than relying on expensive consultants who clearly aren't what they are made out to be.

For clarity the gentleman in question has been charged with the offences following a 2.5 year investigation.

11-05-2012 1:47pm

Ahhhhh rabble rabble rabble.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. Stop trying to make a connection where none exists

etchyed · 11-05-2012 5:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahhhhh rabble rabble rabble.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. Stop trying to make a connection where none exists

+1. Thought the OP's thread title was a joke until he actually came back to explain it.

dowlingm · 11-05-2012 5:46pm

BrianD wrote: »

I really wish that we could have state bodies that would have the experts on board to make decisions instead of deferring to outside consultants.

All depends I suppose. Some consultants give very specialised advice. If a project finished and they had nothing to do but continue to pick up a salary then what? Often the reason for taking on temporary or consulting staff within government is the number of hoops required to be jumped through to hire someone permanently.

BrianD · 11-05-2012 6:22pm

We have lengthy delays in infrastructure dev and most of it comes down to the fact these bodies won't make decisions without commissioning a consultants report and the cycle goes on. What do these so called experts contribute other than eat up taxpayer funds and time? Very little it would seem.

And here we have a so called expert that is charged with brothel keeping.

It just underlines whether these individuals and their companies are right for the job. We're wasting our time and money on them.

cgcsb · 11-05-2012 9:48pm

BrianD wrote: »

Well I think it reflects badly on both the company that employs him and the public bodies that I have hired him. With most of these companies they make a big point of "our people" and their CVs.. Our people in this case have been charged with running an illegal enterprise and a particularly abusive one as well.

Running an illegal operation requires a lot if subterfuge and one has to question the integrity of a person who is charged with operating brothels. This is a sideline that must be preoccupying.

With consultancy the expertise is in the people. One wishes that the various bodies could hire decision making expertise rather than relying on expensive consultants who clearly aren't what they are made out to be.

For clarity the gentleman in question has been charged with the offences following a 2.5 year investigation.

Ok, so he was hired by people who didn't know about his dodgy dealings, he performed at his job perfectly well. He was found out to be a criminal and arrested and fired.

How does this affect the speed of infrastructural development in Ireland?

cgcsb · 11-05-2012 9:50pm

BrianD wrote: »

We have lengthy delays in infrastructure dev and most of it comes down to the fact these bodies won't make decisions without commissioning a consultants report and the cycle goes on. .

i.e. not because of brothels, glad that's all cleared up. Perhaps a change in thread title? as the current one is misleading.

BrianD · 12-05-2012 12:31pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Ok, so he was hired by people who didn't know about his dodgy dealings, he performed at his job perfectly well. He was found out to be a criminal and arrested and fired.

How does this affect the speed of infrastructural development in Ireland?

Directly. But just for the record, he hasn't been found to be a criminal (he has been charged with the alleged offences - perhaps things have moved on) but I do not know if he has performed his job perfectly well or not. Certainly Metro West is a basket case at every level.

My point being is that progress is frustrated by a lack of decision making and over reliance on the basis of the so call expertise that they offer. This practice is costing us a fortune in time and money. Most so called consultants in every field will steal your watch to tell you the time. Personally I doubt the calibre of these experts and their companies.

In this particular case, if the allegations made are true, would be a character completely unsuited to advising the public service on any function.

We need change and get rid of this consultant dependency for infrastructural development. It's not exactly working out.

annfield1978 · 12-05-2012 12:59pm

i'm a 'consultant' and even I am amazed at some of the projects that are put out to tender in frameworks, its like the engineers the local authorities and quangos dont want to do anything technical, just ''manage''

the briefs are so extensive and consist of countless deliverables to cover themselves, that prices inevitably go up and take alot longer to complete

dowlingm · 12-05-2012 2:26pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

i'm a 'consultant' and even I am amazed at some of the projects that are put out to tender in frameworks, its like the engineers the local authorities and quangos dont want to do anything technical, just ''manage''

the briefs are so extensive and consist of countless deliverables to cover themselves, that prices inevitably go up and take alot longer to complete

We don't need your STEEENKING FACTS around here! It's about the brothels! THE BROTHELS!

(I've just made a BrianD-like connection - BrianD is in fact... WILLIE O'DEA!)

BrianD · 12-05-2012 3:15pm

dowlingm wrote: »

We don't need your STEEENKING FACTS around here! It's about the brothels! THE BROTHELS!

Well the issue is the money spent on consultants who just aren't qualified and you and I pay for it in taxes and under or non-delivered projects. These companies make big deals about "our people" and in this case we're finding out about these people.

It's time to cut the fat and for well paid civil servants to stop devolving decisions and to hire the right people in the first place who can make decisions.

(I've just made a BrianD-like connection - BrianD is in fact... WILLIE O'DEA!)

Shut up or I'll wave my gun in your face and start talking in a monotone.

dowlingm · 12-05-2012 3:55pm

BrianD - you took a single incident relating to a single individual's criminality used it to denounce consultants in general with no discussion of the nature of how infrastructure is planned, the changing of a 19th century civil service model to meet 21st century needs and the increased demands of EU directives especially in respect of environmental assessment.

How sad it is that we don't know your name, where you work, and then google for cases in the courts to infer that you and those who do similar work are parasites based on another's fault.

This thread is, quite simply, a disgrace.

donvito99 · 13-05-2012 4:27pm

A friend of mine knew this chap, saying he was the one of the most quite, unassuming person you could possibly meet!

annfield1978 · 13-05-2012 8:09pm

donvito99 wrote: »

A friend of mine knew this chap, saying he was the one of the most quite, unassuming person you could possibly meet!

yeah, I know a couple of his colleagues and attended design meeting/ client meetings wih him, so very surprised when these charges came out

its the quiet ones you watch out for!!

NuMarvel · 14-05-2012 11:55am

Just out of curiosity, when exactly did we do away with the presumption of innocence? Because I didn't see anything in the article that said that either of the people charged pleaded guilty to anything, and they have yet to go on trial.

cgcsb · 14-05-2012 6:49pm

NuMarvel wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, when exactly did we do away with the presumption of innocence? Because I didn't see anything in the article that said that either of the people charged pleaded guilty to anything, and they have yet to go on trial.

TBH Nu, I didn't actually read the article, because I knew from the title that it had absolutely zilch got to do with the planning process and didn't belong in the infrastructure forum.

irjudge · 23-05-2012 12:50am

BrianD wrote: »

Well the issue is the money spent on consultants who just aren't qualified and you and I pay for it in taxes and under or non-delivered projects. These companies make big deals about "our people" and in this case we're finding out about these people.

It's time to cut the fat and for well paid civil servants to stop devolving decisions and to hire the right people in the first place who can make decisions.

QUOTE]

Brian,

Firstly I am also a dreaded engineering consultant.

My understanding of why my role exists in the development of infrastructure and why local authorities dont employ all the people required for the following reasons.

(1) A local authority may only undertake large projects on an intermittent basis. Therefore it would be a waste maintaining a large team of specialists in house when they are not fully employed. Much better to only pay for what you actually need when you need it.

(2) Because consultants are constantly (or were about 4 years ago) undertaking a particular type of work they do build up a knowledge base which the client can avail of.

(3) When you engage a consultant everything is in bullet points and this looks impressive. Which is nice.

I would like to state for the record that I have never allegedly operated a brothel. However I still haven't paid the household tax. Judge me as you must.

No wonder our infrastructure projects are so slow ...

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