Ireland and personal responsibility

AudreyHepburn · 11-05-2012 04:41PM #1

I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem in this country at the moment, and the biggest stumbling block on the road back to stability is the lack of personal responsibility. From the office of the Taoiseach down to the ordinary Joe soap it seems that no-one wants to own up to their mistakes, be it politicians denying they made promises they could keep to the ordinary refusing to acknowledge they took out a mortgage they couldn’t afford or bought too many properties.

It’s always some-one else fault; the bank who bullied you into taking out that mortgage, the Minister who lied during the election campaign etc. Except it isn’t just their fault. We all make personal choices and its time we all take responsibly for them instead of the constant whinging and self-pitying and scape goating.

If we don’t or won’t acknowledge our personal mistakes, in all levels of society, then how can we ever learn from them? How can we ever make steps towards change and recovery if those who made the mistakes don’t accept the part they each played?

Teyla Emmagan · 11-05-2012 04:44PM

I absolutely agree with you as it happens. And this is why it amazes me that people advocate voting 'No' to the fiscal treaty on the 'ah sure Europe will always bail us out' basis. No personal responsibility whatsoever! It amazes me.

Battered Mars Bar · 11-05-2012 04:45PM

I like the way irish people who have been working in oz for 3 years are now beginning to complain about the influx of irish people to oz in the past year.

cocoshovel · 11-05-2012 04:46PM

You see it quite often. People who blatently do something wrong or bad, and its 100% obvious/true that they did it, yet they refuse to own up claiming "shur i didnt do nothing!!". I think these people seriously trick themselves into believing they did nothing wrong.

Gbear · 11-05-2012 04:46PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem in this country at the moment, and the biggest stumbling block on the road back to stability is the lack of personal responsibility. From the office of the Taoiseach down to the ordinary Joe soap it seems that no-one wants to own up to their mistakes, be it politicians denying they made promises they could keep to the ordinary refusing to acknowledge they took out a mortgage they couldn’t afford or bought too many properties.

It’s always some-one else fault; the bank who bullied you into taking out that mortgage, the Minister who lied during the election campaign etc. Except it isn’t just their fault. We all make personal choices and its time we all take responsibly for them instead of the constant whinging and self-pitying and scape goating.

If we don’t or won’t acknowledge our personal mistakes, in all levels of society, then how can we ever learn from them? How can we ever make steps towards change and recovery if those who made the mistakes don’t accept the part they each played?

It's probably something that's true of all people.
I think what's possibly different about the Irish is that we became a nation of nouveau riche when we came into vast wealth very quickly in the 90's/00's and that has led to a breathtaking sense of entitlement.

ejmaztec · 11-05-2012 04:50PM

The throwing around of the "we" word each time this gets dragged up gets on my tits.

Sindri · 11-05-2012 04:50PM

Hepburn's most famous role was Holly Golightly.

Captain Darling · 11-05-2012 04:51PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

The throwing around of the "we" word each time this gets dragged up gets on my tits.

We cant be having that.

kevin65 · 11-05-2012 04:51PM

People in general nowadays want to be entitled to everything and accountable for nothing.

forfuxsake · 11-05-2012 04:53PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

The throwing around of the "we" word each time this gets dragged up gets on my tits.

Yeah we all bought too many houses (I had nine houses, 44 apartments and over 300 credit cards and voted Fianna FAIL so I would get more dole and a cushy public service job) blah blah

RichieC · 11-05-2012 04:54PM

At the end of the day we are intelligent mammals. we are what we are.

Ruralyoke · 11-05-2012 04:54PM

Just like the compo culture attitude.

Put a stop to that and you'd be amazed at the way things might change.

Sindri · 11-05-2012 04:54PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

The throwing around of the "we" word each time this gets dragged up gets on my tits.

It's ironic when included in a thread about personal responsibility.

forfuxsake · 11-05-2012 04:57PM

Sindri wrote: »

It's ironic when included in a thread about personal responsibility.

I think in any such thread the OP should include the phrase 'it's my fault'

yermanoffthetv · 11-05-2012 04:58PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I absolutely agree with you as it happens. And this is why it amazes me that people advocate voting 'No' to the fiscal treaty on the 'ah sure Europe will always bail us out' basis. No personal responsibility whatsoever! It amazes me.

Or how about we grow a spine and force the people who made this mess take responsibility, like the Frence,German and Dutch banks who speculated wildely on Irish banks in the hope of making huge profits. It works both ways. It also amazes me that people who advocate 'Yes' dont seem to realize that this fiscal treaty will do squat to ease the debit spiral we are in an merely further centralizes power in the core of Europe.

ejmaztec · 11-05-2012 04:58PM

Sindri wrote: »

It's ironic when included in a thread about personal responsibility.

I'm allergic to the whiff of FF's rotting corpse wafting up me nostrils when these threads pop up.:P

Sappa · 11-05-2012 05:00PM

Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

I like the way irish people who have been working in oz for 3 years are now beginning to complain about the influx of irish people to oz in the past year.

Ha Ha that`s so true,I moved there in 2003 and you always go the fellas who did`nt want to know about the whv folk even though they arrived on one or the fellas who had PR and looked down on the Irish.
I had Pr after 2 years and if I could help a fellow country man or lady with finding a job or a house I did it,I always thought it was a selfish attitude to take to look down on those just starting off and finding there feet.

Ghost Buster · 11-05-2012 05:02PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem in this country at the moment, and the biggest stumbling block on the road back to stability is the lack of personal responsibility. From the office of the Taoiseach down to the ordinary Joe soap it seems that no-one wants to own up to their mistakes, be it politicians denying they made promises they could keep to the ordinary refusing to acknowledge they took out a mortgage they couldn’t afford or bought too many properties.

It’s always some-one else fault; the bank who bullied you into taking out that mortgage, the Minister who lied during the election campaign etc. Except it isn’t just their fault. We all make personal choices and its time we all take responsibly for them instead of the constant whinging and self-pitying and scape goating.

If we don’t or won’t acknowledge our personal mistakes, in all levels of society, then how can we ever learn from them? How can we ever make steps towards change and recovery if those who made the mistakes don’t accept the part they each played?

We we we we we.:eek:
Ah Audrey. Nothing ever changes with you. I did none of those things and yet seem to be getting the same deal as everyone else.
Still living at home BTW??

Ghost Buster · 11-05-2012 05:06PM

Gbear wrote: »

It's probably something that's true of all people.
I think what's possibly different about the Irish is that we became a nation of nouveau riche when we came into vast wealth very quickly in the 90's/00's and that has led to a breathtaking sense of entitlement.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem in this country at the moment, and the biggest stumbling block on the road back to stability is the lack of personal responsibility. From the office of the Taoiseach down to the ordinary Joe soap it seems that no-one wants to own up to their mistakes, be it politicians denying they made promises they could keep to the ordinary refusing to acknowledge they took out a mortgage they couldn’t afford or bought too many properties.

It’s always some-one else fault; the bank who bullied you into taking out that mortgage, the Minister who lied during the election campaign etc. Except it isn’t just their fault. We all make personal choices and its time we all take responsibly for them instead of the constant whinging and self-pitying and scape goating.

If we don’t or won’t acknowledge our personal mistakes, in all levels of society, then how can we ever learn from them? How can we ever make steps towards change and recovery if those who made the mistakes don’t accept the part they each played?

Ok both of you. You have both made sweeping generalisations to the effect that every single adult in the country has lived beyond their means, bought property, new cars, had lavish holidays are deserve to be in the position they now find them selves in.
Care to back that up?
When you do i will tell you my personal position and how i conduct my self and Im sure others can do the same.

Sindri · 11-05-2012 05:07PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem in this country at the moment, and the biggest stumbling block on the road back to stability is the lack of personal responsibility. From the office of the Taoiseach down to the ordinary Joe soap it seems that no-one wants to own up to their mistakes, be it politicians denying they made promises they could keep to the ordinary refusing to acknowledge they took out a mortgage they couldn’t afford or bought too many properties.

It’s always some-one else fault; the bank who bullied you into taking out that mortgage, the Minister who lied during the election campaign etc. Except it isn’t just their fault. We all make personal choices and its time we all take responsibly for them instead of the constant whinging and self-pitying and scape goating.

If we don’t or won’t acknowledge our personal mistakes, in all levels of society, then how can we ever learn from them? How can we ever make steps towards change and recovery if those who made the mistakes don’t accept the part they each played?

Can you prove, unequivocally, to me that I was part of this mess we're in. That I willfully facilitated the economic downfall of this country out side of normal monetary transactions?

Seachmall · 11-05-2012 05:08PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem in this country at the moment, and the biggest stumbling block on the road back to stability is the lack of personal responsibility. From the office of the Taoiseach down to the ordinary Joe soap it seems that no-one wants to own up to their mistakes, be it politicians denying they made promises they could keep to the ordinary refusing to acknowledge they took out a mortgage they couldn’t afford or bought too many properties.

It’s always some-one else fault; the bank who bullied you into taking out that mortgage, the Minister who lied during the election campaign etc. Except it isn’t just their fault. We all make personal choices and its time we all take responsibly for them instead of the constant whinging and self-pitying and scape goating.

If we don’t or won’t acknowledge our personal mistakes, in all levels of society, then how can we ever learn from them? How can we ever make steps towards change and recovery if those who made the mistakes don’t accept the part they each played?

I willfully abandon any responsibilities you believe I have as a result of me being a member of this society.

I will avoid taking any responsibility for any mistakes you believe I have made.

I owe you nothing.

Nothingbetter2d · 11-05-2012 05:09PM

i have NO outstanding loans, morgages, or any other debts other than the usual bills........ yet i like many others have to pay for the mistakes of people that bought into the housing hype who were misled by politicians, bankers, and investors.

i'm in no way responsible for having to pay off debt by a private company i owe nothing to. Cowen had no right to dump that on me and everyone else like me.

I_smell_fear · 11-05-2012 05:09PM

OKAY! I admit it. It was me. I shot JR.

ejmaztec · 11-05-2012 05:14PM

Sindri wrote: »

Can you prove, unequivocally, to me that I was part of this mess we're in. That I willfully facilitated the economic downfall of this country out side of normal monetary transactions?

I'd like to see a comprehensive list of every irresponsible person in the country.

They should have had another section on the census form to cover it:

Please list each member of the household who feels responsible for putting Ireland in the sh1t.

seamus · 11-05-2012 05:20PM

I believe this attitude is ingrained into many people from a very early age.

How many parents (hands up), when your child walks into a door you say, "Bold door" and the child smacks the door?

Why do you do this? The door is an inanimate object without the ability to do anything. And besides, the mistake was your child's not the door. You know what the inevitable outcome is? The child will walk into someone, then smack them and say, "Bold". Oh look, you've just programmed your child to blame someone else for their mistakes.

This is something I can recall seeing time and time again growing up, but it's only when I saw my niece doing it that it clicked with me.

What we should be doing is saying, "Whoops, you fell over", pick the child up and let them walk on. If they start crying, cuddle them, but there's no need to blame anyone or anything else.

Bruce7 · 11-05-2012 05:27PM

seamus wrote: »

I believe this attitude is ingrained into many people from a very early age.

How many parents (hands up), when your child walks into a door you say, "Bold door" and the child smacks the door?

Why do you do this? The door is an inanimate object without the ability to do anything. And besides, the mistake was your child's not the door. You know what the inevitable outcome is? The child will walk into someone, then smack them and say, "Bold". Oh look, you've just programmed your child to blame someone else for their mistakes.

This is something I can recall seeing time and time again growing up, but it's only when I saw my niece doing it that it clicked with me.

What we should be doing is saying, "Whoops, you fell over", pick the child up and let them walk on. If they start crying, cuddle them, but there's no need to blame anyone or anything else.

Wait until you have kids of your own, and all your aspirations go out the window, while you do anything it takes to make them shut up.

Sleepy · 11-05-2012 05:27PM

What's the alternative?

I took out loans, I'm paying them back.

A democratic majority of this country voted for morons because of their disastrous governance (FF's involvement in SSAI's, benchmarking, expansion of public sector, stimulation of the overheated property market, reducing taxes, taking the lowest contributors out of the tax net entirely, etc) or, worse, elected them in exchange for parochial favours.

This same majority were seemingly shocked when these morons continued to govern ineptly during the downturn (bank guarantee) and are now wailing now that the subsequent government have to tighten the belt in order to try and get us out of where we are. A better government would have made deep, painful cuts 4 years ago (or to level the same accusation at the current shower, as soon as they took office).

We collectively get the politicians we collectively deserve. If you don't like it (as I don't) there's only one real answer: reform of the political system. How can you ensure that only those understand what they're voting for vote and only the most capable to govern stand?

Now that's the question and I, for one, can't see how 42 is the answer to this one!

shampon · 11-05-2012 05:28PM

seamus wrote: »

Why do you do this? The door is an inanimate object....

YOUR AN INANIMATE ****ING OBJECT.....I'm sorry for calling you an inanimate object.

Ghost Buster · 11-05-2012 05:28PM

seamus wrote: »

I believe this attitude is ingrained into many people from a very early age.

How many parents (hands up), when your child walks into a door you say, "Bold door" and the child smacks the door?

Why do you do this? The door is an inanimate object without the ability to do anything. And besides, the mistake was your child's not the door. You know what the inevitable outcome is? The child will walk into someone, then smack them and say, "Bold". Oh look, you've just programmed your child to blame someone else for their mistakes.

This is something I can recall seeing time and time again growing up, but it's only when I saw my niece doing it that it clicked with me.

What we should be doing is saying, "Whoops, you fell over", pick the child up and let them walk on. If they start crying, cuddle them, but there's no need to blame anyone or anything else.

I have occasionally done this but it is purely to distract the child, lighten the situation and cheer the child up.My boy would laugh when ever i did this. Kids arent totally stupid and know a door is inanimate. I really dont think parents doing this have caused the economic crash to be honest;)

seamus · 11-05-2012 05:29PM

Bruce7 wrote: »

Wait until you have kids of your own, and all your aspirations go out the window, while you do anything it takes to make them shut up.

Or in other words, "It's not my fault my kids have no sense of personal responsibility?"

Sleepy · 11-05-2012 05:29PM

Bruce7 wrote: »

Wait until you have kids of your own, and all your aspirations go out the window, while you do anything it takes to make them shut up.

You can do the complete opposite: "Are you trying to break my door?!" said in the right tone of voice will put a small child who's just hurt themselves into absolute *fits* of giggles. Learned that one from my own mother and use it all the time with my kids.

Ireland and personal responsibility

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