STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

emg74 · 03-05-2012 11:47AM

Looking for a bit of advice

We currently have a Charnwood 6 stove (fitted almost 12 yrs ago) with a clip on boiler. Works very well... lots of hot water BUT since we fitted the stove 12 years ago our circumstances have changed and I am only working part-time now so there is a fire on for longer periods for 4 days out of seven.

We have too much hot water and the stove is inclined to be banging.

A few years ago our plumber put a pump in the hotpress so that we can switch this on when we have too much water and it feeds the rads in the bedroom circuit of the house. 1344sq foot 4 bed bungalow house, recently pumped cavities and upgraded insulation in attic

When we switch on pump, there is nice heat in the rads but really the poor little stove is not powerful enough for the use it is getting for the past couple of years.

There are 6 double rads and a small double in ensuite on the bedroom circuit.

So we need a bigger stove

We were talking to the original plumber last weekend and he said that there would be a certain amount of re-plumbing done to move the hot pipes higher at back of the stove but that it wouldn't be a huge job.

The stove would be in a large brick fireplace - opening is 750mm wide.

We looked at stovax stockton 8hb on web and the size looks okay but phoned a stove supplier this morning and he was recommending a Charnwood 16b or the Inis Meain boiler stove... We had originally written off the 16B as being too big for what we need.

Any advice anyone ??

I can get hubby to measure rads later if that is needed

Thanks in advance

Stove Fan · 03-05-2012 02:51PM

emg74 wrote: »

Looking for a bit of advice

We currently have a Charnwood 6 stove (fitted almost 12 yrs ago) with a clip on boiler. Works very well... lots of hot water BUT since we fitted the stove 12 years ago our circumstances have changed and I am only working part-time now so there is a fire on for longer periods for 4 days out of seven.

We have too much hot water and the stove is inclined to be banging.

A few years ago our plumber put a pump in the hotpress so that we can switch this on when we have too much water and it feeds the rads in the bedroom circuit of the house. 1344sq foot 4 bed bungalow house, recently pumped cavities and upgraded insulation in attic

When we switch on pump, there is nice heat in the rads but really the poor little stove is not powerful enough for the use it is getting for the past couple of years.

There are 6 double rads and a small double in ensuite on the bedroom circuit.

So we need a bigger stove

We were talking to the original plumber last weekend and he said that there would be a certain amount of re-plumbing done to move the hot pipes higher at back of the stove but that it wouldn't be a huge job.

The stove would be in a large brick fireplace - opening is 750mm wide.

We looked at stovax stockton 8hb on web and the size looks okay but phoned a stove supplier this morning and he was recommending a Charnwood 16b or the Inis Meain boiler stove... We had originally written off the 16B as being too big for what we need.

Any advice anyone ??

I can get hubby to measure rads later if that is needed

Thanks in advance

Hi:) As your fireplace is only 750 wide you can only buy a stove that is as narrow as possible, ideally 400 wide because ideally you should have 150mm each side of the stove to allow airflow to let the heat escape in the recess. What is the height of the opening?

I personaly would advice if possible to bring the new stove part forward of the opening to let the heat escape more freely. This would be the best option, as realisticly your not going to find a stove of that width.

If you could measure the rads that you have excluding the rad(s) in the same room as the stove that would be great. Are they single or double rads?
Could you also give me the measurements of the room the stove will be going in? How is the insulation?

With this information I can give you a rough quide to a stove thats suitable.

How do you like the EB range?

http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb9-he.html

Stove Fan:)

emg74 · 03-05-2012 04:33PM

Thanks StoveFan - Not mad about the look of that stove - To be honest, I prefer the look of the ones with the two doors.

Made a bit of a mistake earlier - the rads are singles with only one double. Will get proper measurements later.

The insulation in the house is very good (Well, I think so anyway) - We got the cavities pumped in spring 2011 and there is 18" of the Knauff insulation in the attic

mikeen6 · 04-05-2012 11:47AM

Hi all particulary stove fan! I'm installing a stove and just wondering does a soot door have to be fitted as the flue will be goin out the back and then up the chimney! I want to push the stove back as far to the fireplace as I can so won't see any pipe workout the back so just wondering what thebes advice for this job? Thanks for your help!

Stove Fan · 04-05-2012 12:50PM

mikeen6 wrote: »

Hi all particulary stove fan! I'm installing a stove and just wondering does a soot door have to be fitted as the flue will be goin out the back and then up the chimney! I want to push the stove back as far to the fireplace as I can so won't see any pipe workout the back so just wondering what thebes advice for this job? Thanks for your help!

No not nessasarily it really depends on flue layout and if the stove is a boiler model. It really depends on if your using 2 45 degree bends or 1 90 degree bend on the rear flue. 90 degree bends shouldn't be used as any horizontal runs more than 6 inches can block the flue with soot.

Personally I presume this stove is being placed inside a fireplace as far back as possible or is it infront of the opening?

I presume as I thought. In this case use 2 45 degree bends if possible to join to the clay liner adapter if your flue is clay lined. 90 degree bend you won't get the brushes past it.

A picture would be great:) Is there any option of using the top flue outlet or do you want to use the top of the stove to cook on?

Stove Fan:)

mikeen6 · 04-05-2012 10:50PM

Thanks for fast reply stove fan! I don't have a picture but Ill try to explain it as best.. So I have an existing fireplace but will be taking the back out pushing the stove in front of the fireplace using the back flue of the stove then i was going to put a 12" straight then a 90degree bend then onto another straight up the chimney then on to the flue adaptor 6"to 8"...is this all okay or are 90degrees not allowed anymore? Thank you!

Stove Fan · 04-05-2012 11:16PM

mikeen6 wrote: »

Thanks for fast reply stove fan! I don't have a picture but Ill try to explain it as best.. So I have an existing fireplace but will be taking the back out pushing the stove in front of the fireplace using the back flue of the stove then i was going to put a 12" straight then a 90degree bend then onto another straight up the chimney then on to the flue adaptor 6"to 8"...is this all okay or are 90degrees not allowed anymore? Thank you!

Hi the proposed flue design isn't great as soot could block the horizontal flue or reduce its area, hence possible co2 poisoning. You may get issues with the stove smoking when opening the door.

Ideally if you can use 2 45 degree bends instead. The first one on the stoves rear outlet pointing upward, short bit of pipe, other 45 bend to go vertical, short bit of pipe or bend straight to clay flue connector.
This above method would be far better if you have the space and any soot would simply fall down into the stove. Sweeping is simple too providing the stove can be swept through the stove.

Stove Fan:)

mikeen6 · 06-05-2012 09:04PM

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi the proposed flue design isn't great as soot could block the horizontal flue or reduce its area, hence possible co2 poisoning. You may get issues with the stove smoking when opening the door.

Ideally if you can use 2 45 degree bends instead. The first one on the stoves rear outlet pointing upward, short bit of pipe, other 45 bend to go vertical, short bit of pipe or bend straight to clay flue connector.
This above method would be far better if you have the space and any soot would simply fall down into the stove. Sweeping is simple too providing the stove can be swept through the stove.

Stove Fan:)

Ok thanks for your help.. I don't know do I have that room as the stove will be sitting out from the fireplace... So I wouldn't get a 45 degree straight away onto the stove! I will try doh but if not i mite have to go with what i said and hopefully wont have any problems! So again thanks for the help stove fan!

The cracken · 08-05-2012 10:53PM

looking for a bit of advice. we have narrowed down our search to 2 stoves but which one is better the carraig mor 30km or the stratford tf90 cant really see what the differance is between them

thank you in advance

Stove Fan · 08-05-2012 11:56PM

The cracken wrote: »

looking for a bit of advice. we have narrowed down our search to 2 stoves but which one is better the carraig mor 30km or the stratford tf90 cant really see what the differance is between them thank you in advance

I dont know either stove well except the TF90 is the most powerful boiler stove I know except the build quality is only average. Only the TF90 is being made now, mostly replaced by the EB range. These seem much better but are less powerful and give out more heat to the room than the mor.

See reviews by owners for the TF90:eek:.
http://www.whatstove.co.uk/aarrow-stoves/aarrow-tf90-stove.html

Do you really need such a monster? It will use a lot of fuel if using at full boiler output:(

There really isn't much choice in large boiler stoves:( You may be better to install a different stove with smaller boiler especially if your home has zoned heating and just heat one zone at a time:)

To be honest I know nothing about Boru stoves other than it's a recent company but it may be better than the TF90 for quality/function?

Not much help either way but good luck in your search:)

Stove Fan:)

The cracken · 09-05-2012 07:51PM

thanks for the reply stove fan , yeah had a look at that link but the reviews swung from exellent to a disaster so i left there none the wiser lol
we had 2 guys come to the house(we have 10 double rads and no zoned heating ) the first guy said a 20kw one and the second says a 30kw? after a little bit of research am i right in saying the 30kw is the one?
how much coal do you think you would use a night burning for about 6 hours? as we are hoping this will be a cheaper alternitive to oil and pay for itself in the long run.

Stove Fan · 09-05-2012 10:26PM

The cracken wrote: »

thanks for the reply stove fan , yeah had a look at that link but the reviews swung from exellent to a disaster so i left there none the wiser lol
we had 2 guys come to the house(we have 10 double rads and no zoned heating ) the first guy said a 20kw one and the second says a 30kw? after a little bit of research am i right in saying the 30kw is the one?
how much coal do you think you would use a night burning for about 6 hours? as we are hoping this will be a cheaper alternitive to oil and pay for itself in the long run.

Hi:), If you want to could you measure the length and height of all the radiators and give me the dimentions of the room where the stove is going and I will then be able to better answer your query.
Once I know the output required I can equate it with how much coal we burn to heat a given output.

We use only solid fuel to heat our house and have our fire lit up to 13hours a day in cold weather.

Stove Fan:)

paddyk162 · 10-05-2012 05:05PM

Hi

Following this thread as I'm planning on putting a stove in. Does anybody know of any stoves with a lifetime guantee?

Thanks,
P

stoves1 · 10-05-2012 07:50PM

hi stovefan

i got a morso squirrel 1430 installed 2 months ago, lately i noticed that the fire is not lighting or lasting long compared to first 7-8weeks, i thought maybe my chimney needs cleaning, then i took out the baffle plate from the stove and noticed that the rope around the rear flue exit of stove was hanging down and part of it was synged and hanging off, i suspect that i have an installation problem, your thoughts please, the person who installed it is coming back over the next few days, although he is not an expert on stoves, i have used him many times to do general building and carpentry in my house and no problem, i think myself that the stove was not engaged tight enough to the stove pipe, many thanks

Stove Fan · 10-05-2012 10:23PM

paddyk162 wrote: »

Hi

Following this thread as I'm planning on putting a stove in. Does anybody know of any stoves with a lifetime guantee?

Thanks,
P

Hi. the only manufacturer that I know who offers a lifetime quarantee is Aarrow on the stove body for manufacturing defects. No manufacturer covers wear and tear and items like door glass, grate, fire brick linings, ashpan etc, just the body. This would exclude overheating the stove and not using the recommended fuel.
This is the only info I could find on Aarrow guarantee.

http://www.arada.uk.com/our-brands/aarrow.html

Morso stoves. The castings are guaranteed for 10 years I believe.

Woodwarm the steel stove body it's 10 years. But if the stove is 8 years old you get 20% value back. 9 years old 10%

This is all just for the body and not items considered consumable or listed above.

I would ask for the quarantee conditions before buying. Some stoves are only guaranteed for a year.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 10-05-2012 10:34PM

stoves1 wrote: »

hi stovefan

i got a morso squirrel 1430 installed 2 months ago, lately i noticed that the fire is not lighting or lasting long compared to first 7-8weeks, i thought maybe my chimney needs cleaning, then i took out the baffle plate from the stove and noticed that the rope around the rear flue exit of stove was hanging down and part of it was synged and hanging off, i suspect that i have an installation problem, your thoughts please, the person who installed it is coming back over the next few days, although he is not an expert on stoves, i have used him many times to do general building and carpentry in my house and no problem, i think myself that the stove was not engaged tight enough to the stove pipe, many thanks

Hi when you say is not lighting could you give some more detail. Ie any smoke escaping into the room or just sluggish to get burning?
Has anything changed with the house ie new windows recently that could account for the lower performance? Fuel the same?

The chap coming round needs to reseal the rear flue on the outside to the stoves flue collar. Make sure the fluepipe is well sealed to the stoves outlet to prevent smoke/co2 from escaping. Use fire rope if a large gap and fire cement. Do not use the stove until this is checked out.

Is it possible you could have a new birds nest partially blocking the flue? Have you got a cowel with a mesh surround on the top of the chimney to prevent nesting birds from entering the chimney?
I would sweep the flue just to make sure.

Stove Fan:)

heinbloed · 10-05-2012 10:35PM

The EU consumer legislations don't know the term "life-time guarantee". Not for dead matter anyhow.

pinocchiodog · 11-05-2012 10:02AM

I had lots of questions before deciding which boiler stove to decide on and I don't have anything to post now because I discovered after trawling through the forum for the last 2 weeks Stovefan has posted so much helpful advice. Thanks Stovefan - people like you help to make boards such a great place to be!!

Stove Fan · 11-05-2012 12:05PM

pinocchiodog wrote: »

I had lots of questions before deciding which boiler stove to decide on and I don't have anything to post now because I discovered after trawling through the forum for the last 2 weeks Stovefan has posted so much helpful advice. Thanks Stovefan - people like you help to make boards such a great place to be!!

Thanks:D

Glad you found it useful:). I started it as lots of posts were being made weekly and so thought If I could help advice I would.

I'm not a professional stove installer but I am a plumber and very good Diy'er and hope I give impartial advice on all things stove related, hopefully with an air of safety.

Which boiler stove did you go for:)

Stove Fan:)

Richard tea · 11-05-2012 03:31PM

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) for your room size your looking at 4kw to heat the room. Presume the measurements are in feet:D

Unfortunately most boiler stoves the boiler is built into the stove. ie factory welded in. These factory fitted or wraparound boiler give more heat to the water. The small boilers that clip in like the 10,000btu version are only suitable for heating your hot water.

There is this but please confirm the 30,000btu boiler can be fitted afterwards and it's not a factory fitted boiler.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/65kwinsetfireview.ashx Unfortunately I think it may be a factory fitted but worth confirming with them by email.
Or alternatively just fit a boiler stove from the start:D You do need to size the boiler required though, you may well need more output than 30,000btus to water.

If you want just a non boiler either the woodwarm fireview 4 or the arrow ecoburn http://www.aarrowfires.com/our-range-of-stoves/ecoburn-range/ecoburn-inset.html
The woodwarm is the better for quality.

Stove Fan:)

Hello again stove fan, Im considering the 6.5kw fireview. You mentioned about sizing the boiler required? how would I go about this. I wont need to heat the rads, I just think it would be useful to have some hot water for Dishes,washing hands and so on.

Stove Fan · 11-05-2012 04:42PM

Richard tea wrote: »

Hello again stove fan, Im considering the 6.5kw fireview. You mentioned about sizing the boiler required? how would I go about this. I wont need to heat the rads, I just think it would be useful to have some hot water for Dishes,washing hands and so on.

Hi, you would just need the optional 10,000btu boiler. This is a boiler to heat the hot water cylinder only:) This would heat a standard sized hot water cylinder. Thermal stores would need a bigger boiler.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/65kwinsetfireview.ashx

Please be aware that adding the 10,000btu boiler will reduce the heat output from the stove from 6.5kw to 4.5kw. See:
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/_assets/pdfs/0047ft.pdf
Once the hot water was fully hot and not being used though you may get more heat than the 4.5kw.

Stove Fan:)

Richard tea · 11-05-2012 05:18PM

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi, you would just need the optional 10,000btu boiler. This is a boiler to heat the hot water cylinder only:) This would heat a standard sized hot water cylinder. Thermal stores would need a bigger boiler.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/65kwinsetfireview.ashx

Please be aware that adding the 10,000btu boiler will reduce the heat output from the stove from 6.5kw to 4.5kw. See:
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/_assets/pdfs/0047ft.pdf
Once the hot water was fully hot and not being used though you may get more heat than the 4.5kw.

Stove Fan:)

That would be perfect because my room only needs 3kw - 4kw to heat. What it will really boil down to is the expense of getting it plumbed into my hot water tank in the hot press.

Is it a big job to tap into my existing tank in the hot press or would I need a new tank altogether?

The cracken · 11-05-2012 07:40PM

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:), If you want to could you measure the length and height of all the radiators and give me the dimentions of the room where the stove is going and I will then be able to better answer your query.
Once I know the output required I can equate it with how much coal we burn to heat a given output.

We use only solid fuel to heat our house and have our fire lit up to 13hours a day in cold weather.

Stove Fan:)

that would be great i really appreciate this. measurments are in cm
2) 140wide x50 lenght
2) 90x50
1) 60x50
1) 80x50
1)110x50
1)120x50
1)40 x50
actually only 9 but all doubles and the room where it will be going is 30 x 16 feet. thank you again in advance.:)

Stove Fan · 11-05-2012 09:16PM

Richard tea wrote: »

That would be perfect because my room only needs 3kw - 4kw to heat. What it will really boil down to is the expense of getting it plumbed into my hot water tank in the hot press.

Is it a big job to tap into my existing tank in the hot press or would I need a new tank altogether?

With regards to the price to plumb it in it depends on how far away the hot water cylinder is and the complexity of your plumbing layout.

The cylinder ideally needs to be near the stove and above the stove. Only a site visit can really advice on costs.

Your cylinder may well have to be replaced for a twin coil cylinder if your present cylinder is not a twin coil. I bought a cheap one for 180 euro new at my local builders merchant, green insulated foam.
The twin coil cyliner has 2 coils. One for your oil/gas boiler and the other coil for the boiler stove.

You will have 2 1inch pipes going from the stove to the cylinder in the hotpress and a small feed and expansion tank in the loft.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 11-05-2012 09:37PM

The cracken wrote: »

that would be great i really appreciate this. measurments are in cm
2) 140wide x50 lenght
2) 90x50
1) 60x50
1) 80x50
1)110x50
1)120x50
1)40 x50
actually only 9 but all doubles and the room where it will be going is 30 x 16 feet. thank you again in advance.:)

Based on your 9 double radiators and 3kw hot water requirements your looking for a 16.5kw output back boiler and your room requires around 8kw to heat it. The stove will heat this room, no rad should be required.
If your room where the stove is has above average insulation you will need less heat output to the room from the stove, so therefore the below stove may have too high a room heat output.

This stove could also be a possible as 18kw to boiler and 9kw to the room.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb18-he.html

Stove Fan:)

Planet X · 12-05-2012 01:47AM

Just ordered another 10 bags of Smokeless.
Summer my ass.

Stove Fan · 12-05-2012 05:43PM

Planet X wrote: »

Just ordered another 10 bags of Smokeless.
Summer my ass.

I lit our boiler stove about 6.30pm yesterday and it was a big mistake. By 8pm I closed it up and let it go out:D Opened the windows as the heat just built up. At least it heated the hot water:)

We have just used up our firewood for this winter and have been buying 1 40kg bag that lasts 10 days in this weather.

It's nice and sunny today so I dont think we will be having the fire going. The house is warm with the sun shining in.

Stove Fan:)

The cracken · 12-05-2012 09:50PM

Stove Fan wrote: »

Based on your 9 double radiators and 3kw hot water requirements your looking for a 16.5kw output back boiler and your room requires around 8kw to heat it. The stove will heat this room, no rad should be required.
If your room where the stove is has above average insulation you will need less heat output to the room from the stove, so therefore the below stove may have too high a room heat output.

This stove could also be a possible as 18kw to boiler and 9kw to the room.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb18-he.html

Stove Fan:)

that looks great! will have a look into that....thank you so much for your advice it is really helpful:)keep up the great work!

stoves1 · 13-05-2012 09:10AM

many thanks for reply stove fan, the stove is sluggish to burn, and is fitted in front of fireplace with no access to getting to outside of pipes from flue to stove, i did not get the chimney swept before install (my fault) so this will need doing, this will need to be done from chimney down (two story house chimney on roof) there are two 45degree bends from stove to flue reducer, is it possible to clean chimney myself after taken baffle plate off through 5inch piping.on the chimny pot is a bird type cage but do not have a rain cowl on, how do you think i should proceed from here, if possible 123 etc (builder/installer still has not visited), many thanks

hairyslug · 13-05-2012 09:32AM

Sure its been asked but im lazy so here goes, how much is it to install a standard stove, non boiler in a new build against an external wall, is there anything i can do to save a bit when the chimney is going up

cheers

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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