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Internship scheme offers 5,000 work placements to people on the dole

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Comments

  • #1562
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    The intern will gain practical experience in lawn maintenance, courts management, plants / planting. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following Croquet / Tennis court guidelines & standards. Health & Safety training. On completion the intern will have attained skills in: all areas of grounds maintenance & skills relating to managing and maintaining Tennis & Croquet courts.

    Yep, 9 months duration for this one.


    Sorry, I saw this post previously but was responding to a different one and forgot to reply to this.

    It's not a very nice thing for you to assume that that is a simple job. It's a bit condescending to be honest. Are you yourself an expert in all the different varieties of grasses and the specific blends used for different purposes. And do you know a lot about the pest/weedkillers/fertilisers used to maintain them.
    Plus, with all due respect, this might be one job where you might need a longish stint simply because of seasonality - you wouldn't do the same thing to a lawn in Spring as you would in Summer or Autumn. Would you know what different plants compliment each other and which ones should be planted in shade/sunshine/dry soil/wet areas etc.

    I'm sure someone who knows nothing about your job could easily look at it and say "that's easy, I could learn all there is to know for that in two weeks"


  • #1563
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    yore wrote: »
    Sorry, I saw this post previously but was responding to a different one and forgot to reply to this.

    It's not a very nice thing for you to assume that that is a simple job. It's a bit condescending to be honest. Are you yourself an expert in all the different varieties of grasses and the specific blends used for different purposes. And do you know a lot about the pest/weedkillers/fertilisers used to maintain them.
    Plus, with all due respect, this might be one job where you might need a longish stint simply because of seasonality - you wouldn't do the same thing to a lawn in Spring as you would in Summer or Autumn. Would you know what different plants compliment each other and which ones should be planted in shade/sunshine/dry soil/wet areas etc.

    I'm sure someone who knows nothing about your job could easily look at it and say "that's easy, I could learn all there is to know for that in two weeks"

    Oh please. 9 months. And if the job is so technical, shouldn't the person be paid a salary to do it?

    As is often the case, this is a firm getting someone to do a previously paid for job for free - because they can.

    And you are damn right, I was being condescending - to the employer.

    As someone who has almost completed an internship now, I do know how it works and internships have to give DETAILED descriptions of the internship.

    I don't see anything in that ad that mentions the intern being given the opportunity to choose what flowers go where.

    It is very cut and dry (excuse pun) what this internship is about.

    And 9 months! Why, of course it was 9 months :rolleyes:


  • #1564
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    The scheme is now allowing lone parents to apply.
    no mention of where we can stash the kids for 50 a week:(


  • #1565
    trooney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭trooney


    planetX wrote: »
    The scheme is now allowing lone parents to apply.
    no mention of where we can stash the kids for 50 a week:(

    Create a child minding internship... ?


  • #1566
    Dum_Dum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Dum_Dum


    trooney wrote: »
    Create a child minding internship... ?

    Governments love getting mothers out to work. If they look after each others kids then you can tax them; if they look after their own you can't.


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  • #1567
    griffdaddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    I've been doing an internship since January in an ngo that's involved in education. Since day one I've been getting great experience and treated like a regular member of staff. I'm educated to masters level, but without experience I was getting nowhere with job applications. Have applied for 3 different jobs in the last few days and the interest and time they have for me as a candidate is dramatically greater than it was before the internship. I think the thing with JobBridge is that when an internship is bad it's terrible, and when it's good it's really helpful. There's very little middle ground.


  • #1568
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    http://jobbridgetonowhere.tumblr.com/


  • #1569
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    http://jobbridgetonowhere.tumblr.com/

    Yeah, damn those evil Capitalist money grabbing libraries. Corrupting our youth and exploiting our SW schemes for the benefit of their rich shareholders. They're probably owned by bankers and bondholders.....rabble rabble rabble :rolleyes:


    Did you know that there are a lot of highly academically qualified people coming out of college but who have no experience to get on the ladder or to even complete their practical training. A lot are leaving to get training elsewhere because other countries have more structured intern-style programmes where they can get the necessary training.

    The government, and society as a whole, does not owe you a well paying job!!


  • #1570
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    yore wrote: »
    Yeah, damn those evil Capitalist money grabbing libraries. Corrupting our youth and exploiting our SW schemes for the benefit of their rich shareholders. They're probably owned by bankers and bondholders.....rabble rabble rabble :rolleyes:


    Did you know that there are a lot of highly academically qualified people coming out of college but who have no experience to get on the ladder or to even complete their practical training. A lot are leaving to get training elsewhere because other countries have more structured intern-style programmes where they can get the necessary training.

    The government, and society as a whole, does not owe you a well paying job!!

    Heaven forbid a company pays for staff!


  • #1571
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Heaven forbid a company pays for staff!

    Heaven forbid that you might actually read the post/link I was replying to.

    The poster has been arguing continuously that evil companies are abusing the internship scheme by having the government supply them with free labour, for which the government is paying cheaply. It is not clear whether their problem is with the fact that the company is getting it for free or the fact that the person isn't getting well paid. if (s)he comes back to the thread, (s)he might answer that question -> "Would you object to the scheme if the government paid the full going wage for a fully qualified person with experience doing the same job"?

    His concrete example is to a rant about a local library . Jesus wept!

    Instead of looking at it negatively, look at it from the point of view of the person who might be volunteering their time to the community in the library for free. I'm sure they'd be delighted to be getting a few quid for it.

    Libraries are free for the public to use. At the risk of this thread morphing into http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056627468 might I cheekily suggest that the poster might even visit one to take out some books and learn some new skills so that he's not depending on CE schemes etc!


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  • #1572
    IrishEyes19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    Internships as "valuable experience" as they are don't pay the bills. Majority of adults who have lost their jobs would rather be paid a decent wage than the dole and measly 50 euro extra an internship grants.

    It add's no motivation or morale as many companies dont even offer a paid position at the end of the work contract. Absolute insult to people.


  • #1573
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    Oh please. 9 months. And if the job is so technical, shouldn't the person be paid a salary to do it?

    If you train to be an accountant, you are doing a highly technical job - you start on about 20k a year. Trade apprentices start very low. http://www.fas.ie/en/Allowances+and+Grants/Apprentice+Wages.htm
    Look what a phase 2 printing apprentice is on - 143 quid a week gross!
    If you want to become a barrister then after passing your exams, you usually have to work for free for a year.

    Plus isn't going to college and learning part of your training for your eventual job...perhaps you think all 1st year med students should be getting paid qualified GP rates?
    As is often the case, this is a firm getting someone to do a previously paid for job for free - because they can.
    Not under the rules of the scheme. I posted the link before. The intern cannot be taking someones job or be replaced by another intern in the same role. Yes, I'm sure people can try to break the rules, but feel free to report any that you know of.
    And you are damn right, I was being condescending - to the employer.
    No, you highlighted the list of tasks and said "Yep, 9 months duration for this one." . You were implying that it could not take 9 months to learn that stuff. In other words you think it is a low skilled job that any idiot could learn to do very fast.
    As someone who has almost completed an internship now, I do know how it works and internships have to give DETAILED descriptions of the internship.

    I don't see anything in that ad that mentions the intern being given the opportunity to choose what flowers go where.

    It is very cut and dry (excuse pun) what this internship is about.

    And 9 months! Why, of course it was 9 months :rolleyes:

    I will quote your own post here
    The intern will gain practical experience in lawn maintenance, courts management, plants / planting. The intern will receive formal/informal training in the following Croquet / Tennis court guidelines & standards. Health & Safety training. On completion the intern will have attained skills in: all areas of grounds maintenance & skills relating to managing and maintaining Tennis & Croquet courts.

    And do you think that people are that stupid that they will start a job, think "hey this employer is taking the piss and abusing me" and decide to stay at it for 9 months? What do you think would happen if the employer is resubmitting the job for approval every two weeks :rolleyes:

    You say you are completing an internship, well if it was one where the employer was taking advantage of your free labour and you firmly believe that it was not giving you any benefit at all, and you were foolish enough to stay at it until the end, then I'd frankly think you deserve it!


  • #1574
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    IrishEyes19 wrote: »
    Internships as "valuable experience" as they are don't pay the bills. Majority of adults who have lost their jobs would rather be paid a decent wage than the dole and measly 50 euro extra an internship grants.

    It add's no motivation or morale as many companies dont even offer a paid position at the end of the work contract. Absolute insult to people.

    Neither does staying in school after the Junior Cert when you could be earning minimum wage sweeping the floor of the local supermarket.

    Perhaps a bit facetious, but you might grasp the point I'm getting at. It is often better to make a sacrifice now in order to get greater future gain.


  • #1575
    IrishEyes19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    yore wrote: »
    Yeah, damn those evil Capitalist money grabbing libraries. Corrupting our youth and exploiting our SW schemes for the benefit of their rich shareholders. They're probably owned by bankers and bondholders.....rabble rabble rabble :rolleyes:


    Did you know that there are a lot of highly academically qualified people coming out of college but who have no experience to get on the ladder or to even complete their practical training. A lot are leaving to get training elsewhere because other countries have more structured intern-style programmes where they can get the necessary training.

    The government, and society as a whole, does not owe you a well paying job!!

    The government are paid to keep the country afloat, to encourage business, which in-turn encourages work. Kids shouldnt be leaving the country after college ,after years of hard study ect, we shouldnt be in the mess, so yes I think a decent job is one thing that should be guaranteed, we pay enough in taxes ect to earn that right and be confident that paid jobs are on the increase. and people have a reason to scorn at internships and actually I dont see why a college graduate or any person for that matter should have to be unpaid just because they lack experience. Every new job has that element of "learning on the job"

    and why on earth should anyone have to work for free. Seriously? How can you afford it. Even on the dole, if you have a family and bills to pay and Im not talking about sky plus ect and those luxuries, real bills, real issues. People should get real and tackle this greediness by companies, I wonder would half the people agreeing with internships willingly give up their paid salaries for nine months to prove a point. :rolleyes:


  • #1576
    IrishEyes19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    yore wrote: »
    Neither does staying in school after the Junior Cert when you could be earning minimum wage sweeping the floor of the local supermarket.

    Perhaps a bit facetious, but you might grasp the point I'm getting at. It is often better to make a sacrifice now in order to get greater future gain.

    Not to nit pick your words or anything but if you're going to go there - I think we can agree despite your trying to make a point, we can agree that education is a life skill we all need and are entitled to - therefore leaving school before 18 is not recomended. you cant compare that to an adult getting an internship which I would imagine is the general category age wise.

    Sacrifices are all well and fair, but its not a fair sacrifice. Internships are based solely on saving a company money and if you believe any different you are being duped. It does not serve any great purpose, there is no motivation involved, goals are hard to come by, other than slaving away for nothing and as I have already mentioned, no promise of future employment in the company you are stationed in. I will agree of course it will open doors for you career wise, but so will a paid job. Greediness is the base of this.


  • #1577
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    IrishEyes19 wrote: »
    The government are paid to keep the country afloat, to encourage business, which in-turn encourages work. Kids shouldnt be leaving the country after college ,after years of hard study ect, we shouldnt be in the mess, so yes I think a decent job is one thing that should be guaranteed, we pay enough in taxes ect to earn that right and be confident that paid jobs are on the increase. and people have a reason to scorn at internships and actually I dont see why a college graduate or any person for that matter should have to be unpaid just because they lack experience. Every new job has that element of "learning on the job"

    and why on earth should anyone have to work for free. Seriously? How can you afford it. Even on the dole, if you have a family and bills to pay and Im not talking about sky plus ect and those luxuries, real bills, real issues. People should get real and tackle this greediness by companies, I wonder would half the people agreeing with internships willingly give up their paid salaries for nine months to prove a point. :rolleyes:

    Imagine the inefficiencies in a country where the government had to provide every person with a well-paying job.

    The jobsbridge is a start. Having it is far far better than not having it.

    I had friends who were coming out of college a few years ago as physios. They had all the academic qualifications and college practical training but couldn't get a start for love nor money. There were stories of physios volunteering for free for months at hospitals to get some practical experience. Same with nurses/occupatinal therapists/speech and language therapists. These are jobs where people often need maybe a years post graduation experience to become fully certified. All jobs that Ireland is crying out for yet a lot of people with the required practical experience were coming in from abroad....What's that you say? Couldn't the government provide some incentive for the employers to take them on? hmmmm.... maybe they could subsidise or pay their wages. After all, it would be paying their dole. What's that? The government is broke!! oh, well why not just pay a bit more than the dole. Say $50.

    Why should the government have to incentivise the taking on of these people? Well it's simple really, who do you want to be looking after your child when you bring them in for Occupational therapy - the fully qualified OT with a year's full time experience or the one who just passed their exams last week. Which practice are you going to bring your kid to? Obviously the one with more experience. So if you are the owner of the practice, which one will you hire all else being equal? Hence the need to incentivise!!


  • #1578
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    IrishEyes19 wrote: »
    Not to nit pick your words or anything but if you're going to go there - I think we can agree despite your trying to make a point, we can agree that education is a life skill we all need and are entitled to - therefore leaving school before 18 is not recomended. you cant compare that to an adult getting an internship which I would imagine is the general category age wise.

    Sacrifices are all well and fair, but its not a fair sacrifice. Internships are based solely on saving a company money and if you believe any different you are being duped. It does not serve any great purpose, there is no motivation involved, goals are hard to come by, other than slaving away for nothing and as I have already mentioned, no promise of future employment in the company you are stationed in. I will agree of course it will open doors for you career wise, but so will a paid job. Greediness is the base of this.

    I don't think that anyone would dispute the fact that the longer you are out of work, the harder it is to get a job. That's the idea behind jobsbridge.

    Alternatively, think of it as a stimulus. You find that a lot of the people who give out about the likes of jobsbridge are the ones shouting loudest about stimulus packages and decrying "austerity". Some companies may get to expand/rebuild with the help of these schemes. That can only be good for everyone.


  • #1579
    yore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭yore


    Original article:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/magazine/2010/0724/1224275313645.html

    Mirror:
    http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/4338855


  • #1580
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    yore wrote: »
    You say you are completing an internship, well if it was one where the employer was taking advantage of your free labour and you firmly believe that it was not giving you any benefit at all, and you were foolish enough to stay at it until the end, then I'd frankly think you deserve it!

    What a truly nasty thing to say. :rolleyes:

    Why I stuck with my internship:

    1. Because it got me out of the house (this is the first time I have been out of work since I was 18 and am now 39)

    2. Because while the whole situation has been degrading, I have learnt some skills ( you can't not learn anything new if you are working for free 39 hours a week)

    3. Because it meant there was no big gap on my CV.

    4. Because it meant that I still kept my JSB 'stamps' (they are kept for the duration of the internship and you only start using them again when you finish); and

    5. Because at the end I have a reference.

    Yes, totally stupid I am. :rolleyes:


  • #1581
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Handsome Bob wrote: »
    Yeah, I find it hard to believe, but impressive if true.

    Well did you ever think that many of these would have been a JOB FROM THE START if they didn't get some free labour paid for instead for 6 months or whatever the duration of the scheme is.


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  • #1582
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    token101 wrote: »



    An intern is hardly an 'artificial resource'. Yeah, exactly a modest scale. But they still need more hands. You're not going to be hiring an intern to formulate the entire marketing plan, but having them working under a marketing manager, managing SM sites, learning how reports are formulated and interpreted, etc, is great exposure in a start up.

    Also worth remembering, that while these companies shouldn't be allowed to advertise at all, it's still up to the person to just ignore it and not apply. I'd like to know how many applicants Tesco actually got for their jobs masked as internships.

    This is not the case at all. Start-ups don't have the time or resources to train people. If you're hired as a marketing intern you are the marketing department - the CEO more than likely is a techy with no experience in the area. So yeah it's great experience but it isn't an internship, it's free labour. There are no paid marketing jobs at the moment. In the last six months they have all become internships.


  • #1583
    abouttobebanned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭abouttobebanned


    Exactly. Small companies who know nothing about social media, except that they should be using it, now have an easy way of creating a quick marketing team. The whole thing stinks to high heavens.


  • #1584
    NakedNNettles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭NakedNNettles


    sunflower27 wrote: »

    2. Because while the whole situation has been degrading, I have learnt some skills ( you can't not learn anything new if you are working for free 39 hours a week)

    Hi,

    Just out of interest, how was your situation degrading?

    What it the scheme itself or other issues?


  • #1585
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    NakedNNettles wrote: »
    Hi,

    Just out of interest, how was your situation degrading?

    What it the scheme itself or other issues?

    I have PM'd you. I do not feel comfortable detailing everything on here for everyone to see the specifics of it all. :)


  • #1586
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Its not job creation its free job creation and paid job nuking .


  • #1587
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    yore wrote: »
    Yeah, damn those evil Capitalist money grabbing libraries. Corrupting our youth and exploiting our SW schemes for the benefit of their rich shareholders. They're probably owned by bankers and bondholders.....rabble rabble rabble :rolleyes:


    Did you know that there are a lot of highly academically qualified people coming out of college but who have no experience to get on the ladder or to even complete their practical training. A lot are leaving to get training elsewhere because other countries have more structured intern-style programmes where they can get the necessary training.

    The government, and society as a whole, does not owe you a well paying job!!

    Its paid jobs that keep our economy afloat due to working people having the ability to pay tax back to our government...While quangos like FAS/ JOBBRIDGE AND TUS ARE JOB SCAMS ROBBING JOBS FROM THE COMMUNITY EXPLOITING I NOTICE THE MOST VUNERABLE PEOPLE OF IRELAND,WHILE PUTTING THE PAW OUT TO GOVERNMENT FOR BILLIONS IN TOTAL..

    Its paid jobs that will get ireland back working not free work schemes that are widely abused by the likes of supermacs for example...


  • #1588
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    It is exploitation.


  • #1589
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    gonedrinking wrote: »

    I'm no fan of FG but this seems like a very good idea. People on the dole get valuable experience while companies get cheap labour. Although from the article it sounds like the taxpayer is going to be paying the intern the extra 50 euro a week, but surely this should be paid by the company, and even better, the company should also be making a small contribution to the employee's normal dole amount so the taxpayer is slightly better off. Also, I hope struggling companies and companies only making small profits get preference over companies making large profits.

    The entire purpose of a business is to generate profit for its owners.

    Thus, a company can be judged on size of profits.

    Why in gods name would you give preference to ****ty companies run poorly? All it does is encourage them to continue in the same vein.


  • #1590
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Born to Die wrote: »
    It is exploitation.

    How is it explotation?

    Companies are encouraged to create experience giving positions that would not exist otherwise.

    You think its better for people to sit at home with a gaping hole in their cv's and work hard all day to pad their K/D ratio on call of duty?

    Speaks volumes about any person who views it as degrading / exploitation etc.


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  • #1591
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    '' Some of the companies availing of the JobBridge scheme, which includes: Tesco, Topaz (Shell), Hewlett Packard, and Aer Lingus made combined gross profits of €8 billion last year.''

    (If you actually google jobbridge and scam a whole load of stuff appears or pathways to poverty and jobbridge)

    http://www.swp.ie/content/ms-brutal%E2%80%99s-attack-welfare

    If that isnt an example of abuse,you must be blind,these companies make billions every year,and can well afford to hire paid staff,as long as FAS and JOBRIDGE are around they will effectively block up what could have been a paid job advertised by Aer Lingus etc..

    It should only be reserved for companies who genuinely cannot afford to hire,and are straigtening themselves out,or smaller local one man businesses.

    The schemes are scams,unemployment lines are longer because of jobbridge,i know recently in the media they made a big deal about how 7,000 internships were hired(for free),how many out of the 7,000 were taken on?
    And all this was merely for show on the first run,what about when they roll this scheme out fully what will happen then,back to the same thing again,no hiring,no paying workers.How many supermacs interns were taken on after there schemes ended?And 50 above my dole would barely cover travel - lunch expenses.Ireland will never get back working with these schemes,our government are stupid,we have tax evading big multinationals landing in ireland,and our government turns around and gives out free workers?completley stupid in my opinion.


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