Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

phog · 07-05-2012 10:11PM

durkadurka wrote: »

No matter what, they clearly wanted rid of him.

I agree but as I said earlier, what is any different contract wise in trying to get rid of any member of staff or player, most are replaced at some stage in their careers For players I doubt there's an ad but for coaches/back room staff there probably would be, cant see this being any different.

durkadurka · 07-05-2012 10:20PM

So to get back to the main point- do you attribute munster's injury nightmare to age, rushing players back, bad management of injuries or just bad luck?

I'm inclined to believe it's a bit of each.

profitius · 07-05-2012 10:23PM

Looking at the comings and goings in Munster lately, apart from Wallace and Leamy (if he does retire), I'mhappy with the players leaving. Gleeson, Mafi, Borlase and TOL are not good enough. MOD was a good squad member but I think him going will clear a space for the like of Nagle, Brian Hayes and Dave Foley.

Anyone hear anything about new academy players?

danthefan · 07-05-2012 10:26PM

profitius wrote: »

Looking at the comings and goings in Munster lately, apart from Wallace and Leamy (if he does retire), I'mhappy with the players leaving. Gleeson, Mafi, Borlase and TOL are not good enough. MOD was a good squad member but I think him going will clear a space for the like of Nagle, Brian Hayes and Dave Foley.

Anyone hear anything about new academy players?

MOD is going to leave a very large hole in the squad. I personally think the league was about his level but he had far more gametime in it this season than any other 2nd row at Munster, plus he was a captain and called the lineouts. Hopefully one of the younger lads can step in, though Nagle in particular seems constantly injured.

phog · 07-05-2012 10:39PM

durkadurka wrote: »

So to get back to the main point- do you attribute munster's injury nightmare to age, rushing players back, bad management of injuries or just bad luck?

I'm inclined to believe it's a bit of each.

I've absolutely and genuinely have no idea, whatever it was has cost Munster big time this season.

danthefan wrote: »

MOD is going to leave a very large hole in the squad. I personally think the league was about his level but he had far more gametime in it this season than any other 2nd row at Munster, plus he was a captain and called the lineouts. Hopefully one of the younger lads can step in, though Nagle in particular seems constantly injured.

I'd disagree that the league was Micko's level, he earned his international jersey and in general represented us well.

danthefan · 07-05-2012 10:43PM

phog wrote: »

I'd disagree that the league was Micko's level, he earned his international jersey and in general represented us well.

When POC, DOC or MOK got injured.

phog · 07-05-2012 10:47PM

danthefan wrote: »

When POC, DOC or MOK got injured.

I never said otherwise but he still represented us well when called up. I think most would agree that international level (even being called up as 4th choice) is higher than the league.

danthefan · 07-05-2012 10:51PM

You think he was good enough for international, I think he patently wasn't hence never ever got selected on his own merits, lets just leave it there.

phog · 07-05-2012 11:05PM

danthefan wrote: »

You think he was good enough for international, I think he patently wasn't hence never ever got selected on his own merits, lets just leave it there.

Just because he was behind 3 of the best 2nd rowers in the Ireland at the time doesn't make the league his level which is what prompted this discussion.

ormond lad · 07-05-2012 11:12PM

profitius wrote: »

Anyone hear anything about new academy players?

Jack o D, Waterpark, and Ryan Murphy, Dolphin. both no 8s are 2 names ive heard so far.
Itll prob be another few weeks before the new players to join are announced

profitius · 07-05-2012 11:31PM

ormond lad wrote: »

Jack o D, Waterpark, and Ryan Murphy, Dolphin. both no 8s are 2 names ive heard so far.
Itll prob be another few weeks before the new players to join are announced

It would be great to see a Waterpark player play for Munster. Knowing Waterford people it would be a big boost for rugby in the area.

Amazotheamazing · 07-05-2012 11:50PM

danthefan wrote: »

You think he was good enough for international, I think he patently wasn't hence never ever got selected on his own merits, lets just leave it there.

If he wasn't good enough to be an international, can you go through the games where he left Ireland down? He got 23 caps, you must have a stack of examples where he wasn't up to it. I don't mean just bad, a la Heaslip for the past year, but games where he was clearly not International standard.

07-05-2012 11:56PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

If he wasn't good enough to be an international, can you go through the games where he left Ireland down? He got 23 caps, you must have a stack of examples where he wasn't up to it. I don't mean just bad, a la Heaslip for the past year, but games where he was clearly not International standard.

seriously wtf

I'd appreciate if you could post (in the Ireland thread obviously), any reasons for this ridiculous misconception that Heaslip has been "bad" at any stage in the past 12 months.

What is he not doing? What do you want him doing more of? What do you expect from him that he's not getting done enough? I asked someone to substantiate their reasoning on the matter before and when pressed they went suspiciously quiet. It's actually head wrecking that I see this posted so often by people who actually seem to know what they're talking about mostly.

Amazotheamazing · 08-05-2012 12:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

seriously wtf

I'd appreciate if you could post (in the Ireland thread obviously), any reasons for this ridiculous misconception that Heaslip has been "bad" at any stage in the past 12 months.

What is he not doing? What do you want him doing more of? What do you expect from him that he's not getting done enough? I asked someone to substantiate their reasoning on the matter before and when pressed they went suspiciously quiet. It's actually head wrecking that I see this posted so often by people who actually seem to know what they're talking about mostly.

His carrying has been poor for an International 8, he's behind Ferris, SOB and Healy now as out "go to" carrier. He has an increasing tendency to fade in and out of games now. He's also been notably shut down by Wales in the last two tests. My abiding memory of that quarter final is him being ran into touch like an also-ran.

Now, i know people will counter that he's just not as good at carrying at Healy, SOB and Ferris, and fair enough he isn't, but that itself is hardly a proud boast.

Tox56 · 08-05-2012 12:21AM

People talk of "balance" and a "natural 7" needed in Ireland's backrow as there are too many carriers.

Heaslip then gets slated because he doesn't carry enough. He does the job of a 7 with an 8 on his back, and some people find that hard to understand.

Monty Burnz · 08-05-2012 12:31AM

Tox56 wrote: »

Heaslip then gets slated because he doesn't carry enough. He does the job of a 7 with an 8 on his back, and some people find that hard to understand.

If that's the case, why not put a 7 on his back and let SOB play 8?

Amazotheamazing · 08-05-2012 12:53AM

Tox56 wrote: »

People talk of "balance" and a "natural 7" needed in Ireland's backrow as there are too many carriers.

Heaslip then gets slated because he doesn't carry enough. He does the job of a 7 with an 8 on his back, and some people find that hard to understand.

If that were true, we wouldn't be suffering for the lack of a 7. We have an unbalanced backrow atm. Or Heaslip isn't very good at being a 7 either, atm, if you prefer.

.ak · 08-05-2012 12:54AM

I still don't see how we're 'suffering' mind you... Has anyone looked at our turnover/ball retention stats? They're not bad...

donfers · 08-05-2012 01:04AM

I don't think he has necessarily been bad in the last year, just very average and not as effective as he was in previous seasons - maybe it's the balance in the back row that has caused him to modify his role but he certainly has beenn nowhere near as dynamic as he used to be

I mean all the talk at the world cup was that we had the best back row in the world, but then you look at the six nations and well i don't often agree with george hook but he was spot on when he said in every game he was outplayed by his opposite number 8

back to munster, a new backs coach and maybe a NZ u-21 player to come into the back row as project player - thank you

Amazotheamazing · 08-05-2012 01:06AM

.ak wrote: »

I still don't see how we're 'suffering' mind you... Has anyone looked at our turnover/ball retention stats? They're not bad...

Munster had 70% of the ball against Ulster in the HEC, stats only go so far.

It'd be interesting to see what SOB could do from 8, even if it meant giving Heaslip the 7 jersey. Personally i don't see anything in Heaslip (or SOB) to suggest they'll be the next McCaw or Pocock though. Nor do i see any other real options for Ireland, POM would get killed, Jennings isn't up to it, nor is Henry or Ronan.

Amazotheamazing · 08-05-2012 01:09AM

donfers wrote: »

I don't think he has necessarily been bad in the last year, just very average and not as effective as he was in previous seasons - maybe it's the balance in the back row that has caused him to modify his role but he certainly has beenn nowhere near as dynamic as he used to be

I mean all the talk at the world cup was that we had the best back row in the world, but then you look at the six nations and well i don't often agree with george hook but he was spot on when he said in every game he was outplayed by his opposite number 8

back to munster, a new backs coach and maybe a NZ u-21 player to come into the back row as project player - thank you

Tbf, that's probably a fairer assessment of Heaslip, he's just anywhere near where he used to be.

I don't think we should be poaching NZ u21's tbh, imo they can never really buy in as much as guys who are chasing the All Blacks jersey. When a NZ'er gives up on the All Black jersey they never seen as good, particularly forwards.

For some reason SA players seem to transfer easier. Even still, the project player idea is a horrible one.

CatFromHue · 08-05-2012 02:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

seriously wtf

I'd appreciate if you could post (in the Ireland thread obviously), any reasons for this ridiculous misconception that Heaslip has been "bad" at any stage in the past 12 months.

What is he not doing? What do you want him doing more of?

IMO he could work on his body position when he goes into contact. He seems to be very upright and i think he would be more effective going forward if he got lower.

irishbucsfan · 08-05-2012 03:20AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

If that were true, we wouldn't be suffering for the lack of a 7. We have an unbalanced backrow atm. Or Heaslip isn't very good at being a 7 either, atm, if you prefer.

In what way exactly are we suffering? Is it the fact we turn over more ball than our opposition?

Our back row is really great at the moment.

danthefan · 08-05-2012 07:30AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

People talk of "balance" and a "natural 7" needed in Ireland's backrow as there are too many carriers.

Heaslip then gets slated because he doesn't carry enough. He does the job of a 7 with an 8 on his back, and some people find that hard to understand.

If that were true, we wouldn't be suffering for the lack of a 7. We have an unbalanced backrow atm. Or Heaslip isn't very good at being a 7 either, atm, if you prefer.

If only the great Denis Leamy was available.

As for your post directed at me on the previous page, how in the name of god so you expect anyone to take you seriously?

phog · 08-05-2012 07:35AM

phog wrote: »

Hendo's wife tweeted this pic of some young fella getting his photo taken with Wally & Hendo. Any idea of year?

According to Hendo, the photo was taken in 2001.

justsomebloke · 08-05-2012 08:45AM

ok this is a Munster thread, if people want to talk about Heaslip's suitability for Ireland please use the Ireland thread

Amazotheamazing · 08-05-2012 10:08AM

danthefan wrote: »

If only the great Denis Leamy was available.

As for your post directed at me on the previous page, how in the name of god so you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Well, outline all the times MOD let Ireland down by not being International class.

Foxtrol · 08-05-2012 10:21AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Well, outline all the times MOD let Ireland down by not being International class.

For me not letting the side down in the odd international does not equate to a player being international class, you seem to have a different measure though.

danthefan · 08-05-2012 10:27AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Well, outline all the times MOD let Ireland down by not being International class.

For me not letting the side down in the odd international does not equate to a player being international class, you seem to have a different measure though.

Indeed, "didn't let anyone down" seems to be about the highest praise anyone can come up with. I'm not sure I can think of anyone who I'd say did let Ireland down.

Amazotheamazing · 08-05-2012 10:29AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

For me not letting the side down in the odd international does not equate to a player being international class, you seem to have a different measure though.

23 caps is surely enough time to be shown up though. MOD was a decent pro, no different to Cullen in that he arrived at the wrong time for International career.

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