Irish Olympic Marathon selection put on long finger

rom · 15-04-2012 05:36PM #1

London A standard now with 3 places

Ava Hutchinson 2:35:33
Catriona Jennings 2:36:14
Linda Byrne 2:36:21
Maria McCambridge 2:36:37

from http://corkrunning.blogspot.com/2012/03/maria-mccambridge-qualifies-for-london.html "The important point here though is that Ireland can only send three women athletes to the Marathon in the Olympics. There are still Marathons like Barcelona at the end of March and Rotterdam in early April and someone else may yet post a qualifying time from those. In light of that, the 16 second difference between Byrne and McCambridge may yet be all important but it may come down to current form and consistency if someone has to be dropped."

Pherekydes · 15-04-2012 05:49PM

rom wrote: »

London A standard now with 3 places

Ava Hutchinson 2:35:33
Catriona Jennings 2:36:14
Linda Byrne 2:36:21
Maria McCambridge 2:36:37

from http://corkrunning.blogspot.com/2012/03/maria-mccambridge-qualifies-for-london.html "The important point here though is that Ireland can only send three women athletes to the Marathon in the Olympics. There are still Marathons like Barcelona at the end of March and Rotterdam in early April and someone else may yet post a qualifying time from those. In light of that, the 16 second difference between Byrne and McCambridge may yet be all important but it may come down to current form and consistency if someone has to be dropped."

Rotterdam was today! Jennings posted her time there.

I think they should get together in a death match in a UFC cage. Four women enter; three leave. :pac:

Dan man · 15-04-2012 06:05PM

Maybe one of the girls could apply for citizenship of an East African country to solve the selection headache... I heard they're hard up for quality distance runners in that part of the world!

rom · 15-04-2012 06:23PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Rotterdam was today! Jennings posted her time there.

I think they should get together in a death match in a UFC cage. Four women enter; three leave. :pac:

I am aware of that, was watching it today but the article stated that this could be an issue back then is all I am saying and "may come down to current form and consistency if someone has to be dropped" rather than just time.

Slogger Jogger · 15-04-2012 06:38PM

Its mad that there wasn't clearer criteria to split the contenders. I daresay Linda Byrne's 10k PB today will have helped her cause, in the current form stakes.

a_non_a_mouse · 15-04-2012 06:48PM

Well done to all 4 and just hope whoever does get the nod will all have a good run in London.
More than the max number of qualifiers for an Olympics.....that's not something that happens often in this country.
Is it proof that a plan (marathon project) and some good organization along with some talented and dedicated athletes will bring the results?
If so, I know there are plenty talented and dedicated athletes in other events besides the marathon, so here's to hoping that right plans get put in place elsewhere so that "4 into 3" situations become more common.

tang1 · 15-04-2012 07:25PM

You go with age and the possibility of competing in future Olympics, McCambridge loses out. But if you go for experience in past Olympics she stays in. Its not going to be easy on whoever loses out. No doubt Linda Byrne running a 10k PB today will help her cause no end. So many factors to consider, Byrne & McCambridge achieved the qualifying time on what would be viewed as the tougher courses. They all deserve to go and represent there country, but unfortunately the rules don't allow this.

myflipflops · 15-04-2012 09:21PM

With no advance plan having put in place in advance to deal with this scenario, you simply have go with the 3 quickest on time. You cannot throw a 10k or half marathon trial race into the mix at this point. As much as it pains me, that means Maria McCambridge misses out as it stands.

Everyone should be required to prove from and fitness in the lead up to London.

Dan man · 15-04-2012 09:43PM

myflipflops wrote: »

With no advance plan having put in place in advance to deal with this scenario, you simply have go with the 3 quickest on time. You cannot throw a 10k or half marathon trial race into the mix at this point. As much as it pains me, that means Maria McCambridge misses out as it stands.

Everyone should be required to prove from and fitness in the lead up to London.

But as there is no substantial difference on times, surely it would be more appropriate to take other factors into consideration despite the lack of clarity. I agree though that 10k times shouldn't be over influential in terms of the selection. I think it'll go down to who they see has the most potential to improve as a marathon runner and by this I mean improve both in the short-term and long-term. Whilst arguably all can improve, there is perhaps more scope for improvement with the likes of Linda Byrne and even Jennings. I'm glad I won't have to make the call, wouldn't wish it on anyone and will be gutted for the runner who misses out.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 15-04-2012 09:43PM

You have to factor in the course profiles of each of the times and how strong they finished. I would not be going merely on the fastest time.

shels4ever · 15-04-2012 09:54PM

Ben Sticky Hashish wrote: »

You have to factor in the course profiles of each of the times and how strong they finished. I would not be going merely on the fastest time.

It's defo not all about times the criteria takes into account form over the last 2 season, current form and previous championships or so i was told today, going on that Maria has the championships and a nice 10mile a few months ago. But can you not include the national marathon champ? or the only one sum 2:36 ... one thing is for sure the standard will be closer to 2:30 for the next olympics.

Goofy · 15-04-2012 09:59PM

myflipflops wrote: »

With no advance plan having put in place in advance to deal with this scenario, you simply have go with the 3 quickest on time. You cannot throw a 10k or half marathon trial race into the mix at this point. As much as it pains me, that means Maria McCambridge misses out as it stands.

Everyone should be required to prove from and fitness in the lead up to London.

There has been advance planning for this scenario. AAI released their nomination policy for London a couple of months ago. See here

shels4ever · 15-04-2012 10:01PM

Goofy wrote: »

There has been advance planning for this scenario. AAI released their nomination policy for London a couple of months ago. See here

from that its hard to leave Maria out.

myflipflops · 15-04-2012 10:15PM

Goofy wrote: »

There has been advance planning for this scenario. AAI released their nomination policy for London a couple of months ago. See here

Interesting. Who do the AAI have running their statistical analysis? Not sure if Patsy has the ability to produce "performance-time curves derived from longitudinal data"!

Seems like it will come down to a subjective decision with one athlete disappointed anyway.

I think Linda Byrne is safest due to her age and her perfromances over the shorter distance as well as being national champion. After that, it's harder to say.

robinph · 15-04-2012 10:40PM

What's with the sad face in the thread title?

There are only two people that have a reason for a

, the person who gets left to behind and the person who has to tell them. Having a choice of who to send is a fantastic result.

fiddy3 · 15-04-2012 11:33PM

4 into 3 does go, and it equals .75. It's simple. What needs to be done is amputate 25pc of each athlete, preferably from the knee down. We then attach carbon fibre blades which produce no lactic, never get injured and are many times more efficient than calves, con the iaaf with a sob story and faulty science, then hey presto, we've got a squad of women capable of running 2:10. I'd like to see Keitany and Shobukhova match that.

Pisco Sour · 16-04-2012 02:17AM

robinph wrote: »

What's with the sad face in the thread title?

There are only two people that have a reason for a , the person who gets left to behind and the person who has to tell them. Having a choice of who to send is a fantastic result.

Exactly! This is a wonderful situation to be in. I wish this was a more regular occurance. Yeh it sucks for the person who doesn't get to go, but that's the rules. There's about 56325 Kenyas who have A-Standards but won't be in London. There's probably 30-40 Americans with A-Standards for the 100m who wont make the Olympics!

thirstywork2 · 16-04-2012 10:49AM

Linda Byrne should and will be picked.She beat two of the other girls in Dublin
and ran a 10k pb in Enniscorthy of 32.53 with Maria just behind in 33.08.
She is proven in major champs from junior-u23 and being one of the youngest i would send her.
You can't base your selections on shorter distances as the marathon is the marathon.In the USA if this was the case Dathan Ritzenhein would have been picked having ran 12.56 for 5k and 60mins flat for the half.

The selection won't be based on time due to the differn't courses.
I expected maria to run faster after her record run in ballycotton 54.48 but with the experience of an Olympics behind her she would be my second pick.

It's a great situation to have 4 and reading Jenning's article in the Indo on Sunday you can tell the marathon mission has helped greatly and pushed all the girls on.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics-distance-education-plots-route-to-success-3081298.html

Middle Distance · 16-04-2012 12:39PM

What a super run by Catriona Jennings in the Rotterdam marathon yesterday in her 2nd ever time over the marathon distance. It will certainly make the selection of the women's team for the Olympic Marathon an interesting one for the selectors as 4 women have now qualified with only 3 places up for grabs!

Brianderunner · 16-04-2012 01:19PM

It's gotta be the 3 fastest, otherwise politics comes into it. I've seen some questionable team selections from the AAI at the european xc down through the years.

Seriously though 2'37 is way too soft. As shels alluded to it will be more like 2'32 next time. Just looking through the London marathon booklet 10 women from the UK have gone sub 2'37, and thats only counting those who are running London next Sunday, thats nuts. It's not exactly Jamaican sprinters we're dealing with here.

robinph · 16-04-2012 01:35PM

They need 2:30 I think to be considered for the last UK place.

Pisco Sour · 16-04-2012 02:03PM

Brianderunner wrote: »

Seriously though 2'37 is way too soft. As shels alluded to it will be more like 2'32 next time. Just looking through the London marathon booklet 10 women from the UK have gone sub 2'37, and thats only counting those who are running London next Sunday, thats nuts. It's not exactly Jamaican sprinters we're dealing with here.

Have to agree with regards the qualification standard. Seems wrong that we have 4 fighting for 3 spots in the marathon when somebody like Joanne Cuddihy isn't even guaranteed of an Olympic spot yet. Qualification standards across the events just aren't comparable. Imagine if she ran 51.56 or if Gillick ran 45.31 and both were left at home while 2:36:xx got to go to London. Just doesn't seem right. But that's just the way it is and the marathon can support a bigger field.

Having said all that, it is great to see Ireland having more than 3 qualifiers in an event. You'd think the AAI would have some sort of contingency plan in place for this though. It's hardly a shock to be honest. People have predicted that this could happen for a few months now.

Kurt Godel · 02-05-2012 06:59AM

Marathon delay troubling athletes- Irish Times

WHAT BEGAN as a dream scenario for Irish distance running has turned into a selection nightmare, with three of the women qualified for the London Olympic marathon now pleading with Athletics Ireland to make the big wake-up call sooner rather than later.

Although four women have run under the necessary A-standard of 2:37.00, only three of them can be sent to London – the same as every other country – which inevitably means one missing out: their problem, however, is not finding out until June 12th, the date Athletics Ireland have set for nominating their marathon and race walk selections to the Olympic Council of Ireland (OCI), as originally agreed last year.

Three of the Irish women qualified – Linda Byrne, Maria McCambridge and Caitriona Jennings – yesterday outlined what they felt was the needlessly anxious wait, visibly frustrated at their enduring state of limbo. “I’m head-wrecked,” said McCambridge, who ran 2:36.37 in Rome on March 18th. “I just wish they’d let us know, I really think it’s unfair to keep us waiting.

“Because the delay does affect your training. If I’m not being selected I’d like to know now, get it over with, and maybe get ready for the European Championships, or target the 10,000 metres qualifying time. But right now I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to rock the boat, but in my personal opinion, yes, bring the selection forward.”

Jennings was the most recent qualifier with her 2:36.17 in Rotterdam on April 15th, and also believes a prompt decision would benefit everyone: “It’s just crazy,” said Jennings, who has also just taken four months leave of absence from work to prepare for London.

“I can understand if they’re trying to give everyone the chance to qualify. But if you’re going to qualify for the Olympic marathon you’d want to do it very soon, otherwise you’re just not going to recover.”

For Byrne, who was the first to qualify with her 2:36.26 in Dublin last October, which doubled as the national championship, there is probably the strongest claim on selection, yet she too believes Athletics Ireland has created an unnecessarily awkward wait, not helped by the vague qualifying criteria to begin with.

“Nearly every other country has their marathon team picked by now,” she said, “so it would have been fairer if we had our selection in the next couple of weeks. I know the selectors are in a tough position, but there would have been less hassle now if they had at least one automatic selection, say in the Dublin Marathon. The fact is that all of the girls that have got the qualifying time, or are trying for it, were all in the Dublin marathon anyway. But there’s nothing we can do about it now.”

Pasty McGonagle, the Athletics Ireland team manager for London, reacted to these concerns last night, admitting they were “understandable”, but that all the athletes had already signed up to the London selection agreement.

“So as of now that selection criteria stands, hasn’t changed,” said McGonagle. “But if there is still any room for manoeuvre then that will have to be agreed with both Athletics Ireland and the OCI.

“We do understand the dilemma, although the selection criteria here doesn’t just apply to the women’s marathon, but other events too, and there could be a similar situation with the men’s 50km walk. So there are other issues to be considered.”

Stupid athletes. I mean, their frustration at not knowing which event to train for, while understandable, should always be trumped by da rules set by the committee boys. Paper doesn't push itself, you know.

Pisco Sour · 02-05-2012 07:14AM

I think this is our queue to be joined by Fish n Chips

Pherekydes · 02-05-2012 08:12AM

They should have set the date for the day after London, but it's too late to change it now. Others are attempting to qualify. It's only fair that they get the chance.

TFBubendorfer · 02-05-2012 08:26AM

Pasty McGonagle, the Athletics Ireland team manager for London, reacted to these concerns last night, admitting they were “understandable”, but that all the athletes had already signed up to the London selection agreement.

Don't you just love this? The athletes have already signed up to the "selection agreement".

As if that was down to the athletes!!!

robinph · 02-05-2012 08:36AM

How does the 50k walk selection affect the marathon selection?

They have 4 to pick from for the marathon, no chance of anyone else getting a time now (and if they do then they won't be fit again in time so can be disregarded) but you could easily have one of the marathon runners that doesn't go for that event step forward for a spare 10k place if there is one going.

No reason to leave the selection so late. Only thing that can change now is someone getting injuries, but waiting won't change that.

average_runner · 02-05-2012 08:47AM

Decision should of been made at end of April. But then again, in this country we cant run any sport professionally.

plodder · 02-05-2012 08:54AM

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Don't you just love this? The athletes have already signed up to the "selection agreement".

As if that was down to the athletes!!!

I think what they signed up to, was the criteria, which included the possibility of competing in a marathon on May 20, to get the qualifying time.

I think the OP's characterising this as just putting it on the long finger is a bit unfair.

Pisco Sour · 02-05-2012 09:15AM

robinph wrote: »

but you could easily have one of the marathon runners that doesn't go for that event step forward for a spare 10k place if there is one going.

I agree they should not be kept waiting, but not one of the 4 runners will be getting within an asses roar of the 10000m standard.

T runner · 02-05-2012 09:21AM

plodder wrote: »

I think what they signed up to, was the criteria, which included the possibility of competing in a marathon on May 20, to get the qualifying time.

I think the OP's characterising this as just putting it on the long finger is a bit unfair.

I dont think athletes had any power to disagree with this criteria. An athlete not signing up presumably would mean nothing bar a worry of self exclusion, and at the end of teh day the responsibility is with the governing body not with athletes or not to be buck passed to athletes.

The fact is that it takes at least 4 months to prepare adequately for an elite marathon. An athlete qualifying for the olympics on May 20th will need 3 weeks recovery minimum and she would need a few weeks working on the aspects of running lost during the latter stages of marathon preparation. If she doesnt do the latter she will be flat at the outset of training. Thats in effect 1st June before marathon preparation can begin only 5 weeks before the olympic marathon.
If she goes straight into a marathon buildup after 3 week recovery she has 8 weeks. Its not long enough. What were they thinking.

Now we have 4 athletes training for a marathon without the full stimulus, commitment and determination that knowledge of a definate starting position brings.

Irish Olympic Marathon selection put on long finger

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