We haven't had a good Public Sector bashing thread in ages

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 02:30AM

mishkalucy wrote: »

You say the public sector are not shielded?
So the CPA is gone then?

go for it, what your gripe

golden lane · 29-04-2012 02:31AM

next time you see a rainbow...go to croke park.........it will end rhere and there will be a big pot of gold..

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 02:34AM

golden lane wrote: »

next time you see a rainbow...go to croke park.........it will end rhere and there will be a big pot of gold..

yes, and tomorrow you will see a leprechaun . top of the day to you

micropig · 29-04-2012 02:35AM

madison2011 wrote: »

NET is irrelevant?????
NET pay is what is leveling us all. The money coming into the house is the single most important factor in whether you can get through the week or not.How can it be irrelevant!

Gross is what's important and relevant

So is keeping certain members of the civil service, who for the most part are not efficient more important than supporting children with extra needs? Bit of a loaded question, but there is only so much money in the country and it can't keep propping the mess that is the public sector structure

Some teachers sit in class rooms for only part of the year comfort in the knowledge they have a great salary & holidays

The same children they teach go to school in a crappy prefab with no facilities or resources, no SEN's to support children who need it.. is this sending a message education is important and relevant?

All's good in the country

Managers & higher grades in the medical card office to take one example, what are they getting paid? Their inefficiency is astonishing

Smidge · 29-04-2012 02:37AM

mbiking123 wrote: »

go for it, what your gripe

So the CPA is NOT gone then????

I don't have a "Gripe"
If you read my post(and I take it you did as you quoted from it)you will see that I am against hitting the most vunerable in society.
I am against Joan coming on the telly or newspaper and saying everything is on the table when that is a lie.
She is just comfortable taking on disabled children and who have no voice(literally for some autistic children).
Good woman Joan, don't bother taking on the public sector.
Disabled children are easier pickings.

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 02:41AM

micropig wrote: »

Gross is what's important and relevant

So is keeping certain members of the civil service, who for the most part are not efficient more important than supporting children with extra needs? Bit of a loaded question, but there is only so much money in the country and it can't keep propping the mess that is the public sector structure

Some teachers sit in class rooms for only part of the year comfort in the knowledge they have a great salary & holidays

The same children they teach go to school in a crappy prefab with no facilities or resources, no SEN's to support children who need it.. is this sending a message education is important and relevant?

All's good in the country

Managers & higher grades in the medical card office to take one example, what are they getting paid? Their inefficiency is astonishing

hold on the children in a crappy prefab are thought by teachers in comfort, but they are in the same conditions-dont add up !

If you think teachers have too long a holiday then why not reduce it. I think a longer school year is more important than reducing school teachers pay. Think about that one those with children ! For the message thing talk to your FG/Labour TD

How do people know Public sector is inefficient, is it because of A&E waiting times, Teacher to student ratio ? if waiting times are too long can people not see it is beacuse the staffing levels are too low !!!!!!

madison2011 · 29-04-2012 02:44AM

The CPA was a put up and shut up plan.It was and is worthless. Loads of teachers will lose their jobs by next September.

If children can't get the correct diagnosis e.g Autism they will not be able to attend special schools.Numbers will drop and teachers will be let go. Re-classification of abilities will suddenly put children with learning difficulties at the very edge of education.It's already happening.

HSE Social workers already only dealing with child protection (no resources for child welfare).It's already happening.

Gardai will only be able to provide manpower for detection of some crimes - especially reduced in rural area's. It's already happening.

The next 6-12 months will put extreme pressure on the public system. The timeframe for the current NDP is about to pass. The NDP is scaffolding a lot of services. This too will pass.

Europe doesn't give a damn as long as the repayments are made. The worst is yet to come.

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 02:45AM

mishkalucy wrote: »

So the CPA is NOT gone then????

I don't have a "Gripe"
If you read my post(and I take it you did as you quoted from it)you will see that I am against hitting the most vunerable in society.
I am against Joan coming on the telly or newspaper and saying everything is on the table when that is a lie.
She is just comfortable taking on disabled children and who have no voice(literally for some autistic children).
Good woman Joan, don't bother taking on the public sector.
Disabled children are easier pickings.

but its public sector that have to deal with the patients, if you cut back on nurses and doctors it only gets worse. I know that with cutbacks I get the 'only have 2 nurses as no relief for nurses on maternity' so end up having to wait. If a nurse taks unpaid leave then the government dont provide a replacement except save on not having to pay a salary. The patients suffer as less staff

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 02:49AM

madison2011 wrote: »

The CPA was a put up and shut up plan.It was and is worthless. Loads of teachers will lose their jobs by next September.

If children can't get the correct diagnosis e.g Autism they will not be able to attend special schools.Numbers will drop and teachers will be let go. Re-classification of abilities will suddenly put children with learning difficulties at the very edge of education.It's already happening.

HSE Social workers already only dealing with child protection (no resources for child welfare).It's already happening.

Gardai will only be able to provide manpower for detection of some crimes - especially reduced in rural area's. It's already happening.

The next 6-12 months will put extreme pressure on the public system. The timeframe for the current NDP is about to pass. The NDP is scaffolding a lot of services. This too will pass.

Europe doesn't give a damn as long as the repayments are made. The worst is yet to come.

I dont think the message is getting through, listening too much to Eddie Hobbs. Too much RTE, mind you they could take a pay reduction. Pat Kenny on a nice number

Smidge · 29-04-2012 02:50AM

madison2011 wrote: »

The CPA was a put up and shut up plan.It was and is worthless. Loads of teachers will lose their jobs by next September.

If children can't get the correct diagnosis e.g Autism they will not be able to attend special schools.Numbers will drop and teachers will be let go. Re-classification of abilities will suddenly put children with learning difficulties at the very edge of education.It's already happening.

HSE Social workers already only dealing with child protection (no resources for child welfare).It's already happening.

Gardai will only be able to provide manpower for detection of some crimes - especially reduced in rural area's. It's already happening.

The next 6-12 months will put extreme pressure on the public system. The timeframe for the current NDP is about to pass. The NDP is scaffolding a lot of services. This too will pass.

Europe doesn't give a damn as long as the repayments are made. The worst is yet to come.

Incidently, one very important thing that people have overlooked with relation to DCA.
And that is if you have a special needs child and need to apply for services for that child, one of the criteria is that the child has DCA.
If the DCA is cut, this child is no longer considered to have a disability and has MAJOR difficulty in even more respects that before.

micropig · 29-04-2012 02:52AM

mbiking123 wrote: »

hold on the children in a crappy prefab are thought by teachers in comfort, but they are in the same conditions-dont add up !

Comfort: good financials rewards, long paid holidays, job security*

*yes, yes I know all about NQT's etc

mbiking123 wrote: »

If you think teachers have too long a holiday then why not reduce it. I think a longer school year is more important than reducing school teachers pay. Think about that one those with children ! For the message thing talk to your FG/Labour TD

I would if I could, but I don't have the power (I blame Bertie for this, I should have been minister;))

Never mind my local TD, I went straight to the top:D

I have already wrote to the minister regarding this matter and also congratulating him on cutting allowances. I suggested to him, that he had not gone far enough and should cut all allowances across the board for all teachers and not just NQT. I posted his response in another thread here:D

mbiking123 wrote: »

How do people know Public sector is inefficient, is it because of A&E waiting times, Teacher to student ratio ? if waiting times are too long can people not see it is beacuse the staffing levels are too low !!!!!!

Staffing levels are not too low on management level are they? always plenty of managers, managing the long waiting lists and reckless spending of budgets

Smidge · 29-04-2012 02:53AM

mbiking123 wrote: »

but its public sector that have to deal with the patients, if you cut back on nurses and doctors it only gets worse. I know that with cutbacks I get the 'only have 2 nurses as no relief for nurses on maternity' so end up having to wait. If a nurse taks unpaid leave then the government dont provide a replacement except save on not having to pay a salary. The patients suffer as less staff

With all due respect I don't know ANYONE in the private sector who can afford to take unpaid leave. Either financially or the fact that their job won't be there for them when they wanted to come back.

Monife · 29-04-2012 02:53AM

golden lane wrote: »

ps workers are paid by the taxpayers......so if you get, then somebody else looses......

the country is having to borrow to pay the ps workers at the moment.....you were paid the last 5 years with money that the banks borrowed and lent to the public.....

is it ok to be paid on borrowed money......

Social welfare recipients are paid with borrowed money, is that ok?

People seem to think civil servants have this cushy number and are riding the gravy train to the end of the recession. Civil servants have also taken pay cuts, not everyone in the private sector has had to. Every tax increase or tax credit cut is also felt by civil servants. Yes there are a handful of very highly paid civil servants but the majority of PS workers are low to middle income earners, so you cannot tar everyone with the same "over-paid" bullsh*t.

You had a chance to apply for a job in the public service during the boom, why didn't you? Everyone rambled on about why would you work there when you can get way more money doing x, y and z.

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 02:54AM

mishkalucy wrote: »

Incidently, one very important thing that people have overlooked with relation to DCA.
And that is if you have a special needs child and need to apply for services for that child, one of the criteria is that the child has DCA.
If the DCA is cut, this child is no longer considered to have a disability and has MAJOR difficulty in even more respects that before.

ya back to more important to pay debt than look after citizens

What would Pearse, Collins and Connolly etc etc say

Was it worth the fight ? As previously said Enda Kenny most compliant leader we have ever had. No wonder they pat him on the head, he is the lap dog of europe

micropig · 29-04-2012 02:56AM

madison2011 wrote: »

Gardai will only be able to provide manpower for detection of some crimes - especially reduced in rural area's. It's already happening.

The farmers rooting around in the rushes will be the ones who will see any suspicious happenings;)

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 02:58AM

micropig wrote: »

Staffing levels are not too low on management level are they? always plenty of managers, managing the long waiting lists and reckless spending of budgets

More nurses, doctors, beds shorter waiting times. Go to A&E, the length of time to wait to get a free bed is crazy. So more nurses and doctors then it reduces. I should get a management job, I am selling myself cheap here on boards.ie

Smidge · 29-04-2012 02:59AM

mbiking123 wrote: »

ya back to more important to pay debt than look after citizens

What would Pearse, Collins and Connolly etc etc say

Was it worth the fight ? As previously said Enda Kenny most compliant leader we have ever had. No wonder they pat him on the head, he is the lap dog of europe

Not sure what you mean by this?

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 03:01AM

mishkalucy wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this?

they were in the 1916 rising, what would they think if we put bank debt ahead of looking after the people.

French prime minister patted Enda Kenny on the head, Enda Kenny also said in Europe that irish people lost the run of themselves.

Hope that explains it

micropig · 29-04-2012 03:01AM

Monife wrote: »

Social welfare recipients are paid with borrowed money, is that ok?

You had a chance to apply for a job in the public service during the boom, why didn't you? Everyone rambled on about why would you work there when you can get way more money doing x, y and z.

the whole country is run on borrowed money

Someone earlier compared private to public net pay*. If we take this example: €100 /day each. Where is the deduction for job security in the public sector?

*net pay-not what should be compared

madison2011 · 29-04-2012 03:04AM

As long as we are making kings of bankers and celebrities, this country will continue to stay on it's knees. I'm ashamed of the Labour Party for losing their principles.

An ethical stand from politicans and policy makers is in dire need. Joe Higgins is starting to look like a saviour and I can't believe I just typed that.

The people will highlight where the inefficiencies are. JUST ASK THEM.The politicians are mandated from the people of this country.Who do they believe they are serving? It looks like Europe to me. Justice must be done and be seen to be done if we are to take the government seriously. The bankers must go down! All sectors must unite and put our mandate before our elected representatives. They must show accountability - it is not an optional extra.

As long as the fighting continues between the private and public sectors the heat is away from the central issue. These threads are divisory and off the point. The people most vulnerable in our communities are those that are being shafted at the moment. We should be kicked out of Europe for refusing to deliver basic human rights to our people. We would probably begin our own recovery process in a creative and imaginative way - thats what we are good at.

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 03:04AM

We are tranferring the bank debt to the Country, that is what is happening

Its great, think about it. Loan money to a person and then force somebody else to pay it back. We complain about loan sharks, even they dont pull that stunt

Monife · 29-04-2012 03:04AM

micropig wrote: »

the whole country is run on borrowed money

Someone earlier compared private to public net pay*. If we take this example: €100 /day each. Where is the deduction for job security in the public sector?

*net pay-not what should be compared

I know! The poster was implying that is wrong that public servants are paid on borrowed money. I pointed out who else receives borrowed money and if it is the case that it is wrong to pay PS workers, then it is wrong to pay social welfare recipients.

I'd gladly take €100 (net) a day

micropig · 29-04-2012 03:05AM

mbiking123 wrote: »

More nurses, doctors, beds shorter waiting times. Go to A&E, the length of time to wait to get a free bed is crazy. So more nurses and doctors then it reduces. I should get a management job, I am selling myself cheap here on boards.ie

I don't doubt that there is a shortage on the front line, more money should go hiring more of these and remove a lot of the 'managers'

Any idea, what's the craic with doctors & the medical card claiming?

Also consultants have too much power in this country, the government can't seem to stand up to them and sort it out

mbiking123 · 29-04-2012 03:10AM

micropig wrote: »

I don't doubt that there is a shortage on the front line, more money should go hiring more of these and remove a lot of the 'managers'

Any idea, what's the craic with doctors & the medical card claiming?

Also consultants have too much power in this country, the government can't seem to stand up to them and sort it out

Ya well our FG Health minister previously negotiated for them, so any gripes back to the government. people foolishly thought a FG/Labour government would sort it out.

Collins when in London for the treaty was buying Belgium chocolates for the ladies when people back home could not put food on the table. The corruption started at the very start of the free state and it will take alot to get rid of it. I dont think Sinn Fein can do it either

madison2011 · 29-04-2012 03:13AM

Monife wrote: »

I know! The poster was implying that is wrong that public servants are paid on borrowed money. I pointed out who else receives borrowed money and if it is the case that it is wrong to pay PS workers, then it is wrong to pay social welfare recipients.

I'd gladly take €100 (net) a day

We borrow to pay the public sector pay bill - then we take half of it in taxes and charges and pay the social welfare bill from that.

There is no security in the public sector most are on contracts that could be discharged on Monday morning. Most clerical posts take home the same as social welfare so take your pick.

Lord TSC · 29-04-2012 08:27AM

Oh look, it's this thread again :rolleyes: Is it that time of the week again?

Monife · 29-04-2012 12:51PM

madison2011 wrote: »

We borrow to pay the public sector pay bill - then we take half of it in taxes and charges and pay the social welfare bill from that.

How do you know the pay arrangements? Are you Michael Noonan in disguise? For all we know, we borrow to pay the social welfare bill and the income from the taxes pays the public sector pay bill.

madison2011 wrote: »

There is no security in the public sector most are on contracts that could be discharged on Monday morning. Most clerical posts take home the same as social welfare so take your pick.

I know, I am a temporary clerical officer (3 year contract). Yeah I would be better off on the dole because I would receive rent allowance (which for my area would get me a 2 bedroom apartment, yet I spend half my wages per month on a 1 bedroom apartment), but i'd rather work.

hondasam · 29-04-2012 12:57PM

mishkalucy wrote: »

With all due respect I don't know ANYONE in the private sector who can afford to take unpaid leave. Either financially or the fact that their job won't be there for them when they wanted to come back.

I'm sure men and women in the private sector take parental leave, I know several who take it men included.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=parental%20lea&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citizensinformation.ie%2Fen%2Femployment%2Femployment_rights_and_conditions%2Fleave_and_holidays%2Fparental_leave.html&ei=ryudT7W7BMWKhQfA6IiVDw&usg=AFQjCNFzoxEU0kpvoQP1drXsPTkuBzwbtg

Monife · 29-04-2012 01:13PM

hondasam wrote: »

I'm sure men and women in the private sector take parental leave, I know several who take it men included.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=parental%20lea&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citizensinformation.ie%2Fen%2Femployment%2Femployment_rights_and_conditions%2Fleave_and_holidays%2Fparental_leave.html&ei=ryudT7W7BMWKhQfA6IiVDw&usg=AFQjCNFzoxEU0kpvoQP1drXsPTkuBzwbtg

Also, in some cases, it can work out better financially if you take unpaid leave, as your salary (pro-rata) would be less, therefore paying less tax and especially if you are a parent that uses childcare, the childcare costs would be reduced so you might come out better off by taking unpaid (or parental) leave.

woodoo · 29-04-2012 03:47PM

Monife wrote: »

I know, I am a temporary clerical officer (3 year contract). Yeah I would be better off on the dole because I would receive rent allowance (which for my area would get me a 2 bedroom apartment, yet I spend half my wages per month on a 1 bedroom apartment), but i'd rather work.

But i thought the public sector were paid 49% more than the private sector?

We haven't had a good Public Sector bashing thread in ages

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