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Priests must report child abuse confessions or face jail.

24

Comments

  • #32
    dirtyden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    This government has done a lot of shouting (Inda on the Ryan report) and now speculating about leigislation about abuse and protection of children.

    But why dont they just charge some people with the crimes they committed? Just put a bishop in court, they have the reports, what is stopping them.

    This law is PR. It looks incredibly difficult to enforce. I would be surprised if anyone is ever charged on the basis of a law like this.


  • #33
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Giselle wrote: »
    If someone is aware of a child being abused, and does nothing, does that not make them in some way culpable?

    Obviously people who don't report because of intimidation, or some genuine fear of something worse or more immediate shouldn't be victimised.

    But if, for example, one neighbour is aware of another beating his/her kids senseless regularly, and simply decides to ignore it, then perhaps the threat of some legal consequence will encourage them to get involved for the sake of self-preservation.

    Or if someone passes a car crash in an isolated area and doesn't call for help, should that not be legally recognised as wrong and punishable?

    I'd like to see something like the Good Samaritan laws that have been passed in many US and EU member states. Its a shame some people need a legal threat to behave decently though :(
    I know you're a rational person G but I reckon something like this would just get hijacked by people with a witch-hunt mentality. Then there's the issue of someone being on a position where they're intimidated into not telling - how can it always be proven this is or isn't the case? It just makes examples of softer targets IMO and panders to the mob. Blame in the wrong direction can be very dangerous...


  • #34
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    dirtyden wrote: »
    This law is PR. It looks incredibly difficult to enforce. I would be surprised if anyone is ever charged on the basis of a law like this.
    Not if they start fitting covert devices into confessionals. :p


  • #35
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Not one priest will adhere to this, expect alot of shouting and no action.

    Sadly the CC like to educate children but they are not very open to protecting them.


  • #36
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    GarIT wrote: »
    I'm not thinking of doing this

    Sure ;) but why not ?


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  • #37
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Not if they start fitting covert devices into confessionals. :p

    and solicitors offices ;)


  • #38
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    billybudd wrote: »
    Sadly the CC like to educate children but they are not very open to protecting them.

    The CC currently has better child protection policies than the Irish state has.


  • #39
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    prinz wrote: »
    The CC currently has better child protection policies than the Irish state has.


    In theory.


  • #40
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    billybudd wrote: »
    In theory.

    So in theory the State isn't interested in protecting children whatsoever.


  • #41
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    billybudd wrote: »
    In theory.

    And now in practice. They have not had a single new child abuse case in the last 10 years. So at least they can learn from their mistakes. So do you find that fact encouraging or disappointing ? Personally I find it encouraging.

    Yet 37 children have died in state care since 2000. But hey, lets not talk about that, it does not suit the agenda ;)


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  • #42
    blackdog2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭blackdog2


    user098 wrote: »
    And now in practice. They have not had a single new child abuse case in the last 10 years. Yet 37 children have died in state care since 2000. But hey, lets not talk about that, it does not suit the agenda ;)

    No agenda, both models are outdated and completely unsuitable for use. God help a child who reports abuse on a friday, because unless they report to a hospital they won't see any movement until monday. Inconvenient Baxtards


  • #43
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    blackdog2 wrote: »
    No agenda, both models are outdated and completely unsuitable for use..

    Not according to the Cloyne Report.


  • #44
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    user098 wrote: »
    And now in practice. They have not had a single new child abuse case in the last 10 years. So at least they can learn from their mistakes. So do you find that fact encouraging or disappointing ? Personally I find it encouraging.

    Yet 37 children have died in state care since 2000. But hey, lets not talk about that, it does not suit the agenda ;)

    I dont find that credible. Im not doubting you but how do we know cases are being reported at all?


  • #45
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I dont find that credible. Im not doubting you but how do we know cases are being reported at all?

    Find one for us then, the papers are full of family child abuse cases every day of the week.


  • #46
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    user098 wrote: »
    Find one for us then, the papers are full of family child abuse cases every day of the week.

    and reality is full of unreported child abuse cases every day. The people most guilty of concealing child abuse have been the catholic church.


  • #47
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The people most guilty of concealing child abuse have been the catholic church.

    Where do you get this stat ?

    Most abuse is carried out by Irish parents, grandparents, uncles, neighbors etc. but sssshhhh don't mention that fact right ?

    Headlines like pedophile fireman, pedophile plumber, pedophile parent, pedophile manager, they don't sell papers or fit the agenda.


  • #48
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    A priest convicted of Child abuse is just as guilty as anyone else in society that was caught for the same crime,

    These people have put themselves high up on moral pedestals, even having the audacity to call themselves "Catholics" while at the same time were knowingly harboring their vial abominations.

    FYP. Lots of other peope in Ireland put themselves up on pedestals and call themselves things they are not.


  • #49
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    and reality is full of unreported child abuse cases every day. The people most guilty of concealing child abuse have been the catholic church.

    user098 wrote: »
    Where do you get this stat ?
    .
    A priest convicted of Child abuse is far more guilty than anyone else in society that was caught for the same crime.

    These people have put themselves high up on moral pedestals, even having the audacity to call themselves "Christians" while at the same time were knowingly harboring their vial abominations.

    Matthew 23:27 could not be more clearer: .

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


  • #50
    puzzle factory
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭puzzle factory


    put a coin box at the door


  • #51
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    A priest convicted of Child abuse is far more guilty than anyone else in society that was caught for the same crime..

    A priest is not more guilty because a priest is not special. A priest(a catholic priest, that is) is just a sexually perverted, possible delusional, but otherwise normal man.

    The confessional is just a vacuous catharsis for the delusional.


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  • #52
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    user098 wrote: »
    FYP. Lots of other peope in Ireland put themselves up on pedestals and call themselves things they are not.

    But they don't go around molesting kids then at the same time putting on this "Holier than thou" image to the rest of the community at large as if nothing had ever happened. It made me nearly vomit a few years ago when Mr Ratsinger (who incidentally is a free Mason) made the audacious claim that the Catholic Church was the true church.


  • #53
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    But they don't go around molesting kids then at the same time putting on this "Holier than thou" image to the rest of the community at large as if nothing had ever happened.

    Don't kid yourself or the children of Ireland. Thats exactly what all padophiles do, including all those 'respectable' Irish parents, uncles, grandparents that are at tonight it as we speak.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It made me nearly vomit a few years ago when Mr Ratsinger (who incidentally is a free Mason)

    Freemason ? never heard that yarn before, and I thought I heard them all, whats next, he's really an alien from mars. lol :rolleyes:
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    made the audacious claim that the Catholic Church was the true church.

    Newsflash, that's what all religious leaders say about their own church. When's the last time you heard any leader of anything say 'we're not the true . . . .'


  • #54
    user098
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭user098


    humbert wrote: »
    A priest(a catholic priest, that is) is just a sexually perverted, possible delusional, but otherwise normal man.

    lol @ Ironic post of the week.
    And a person that posts such prejudiced sweeping comments is . . . .


  • #55
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    user098 wrote: »
    lol @ Ironic post of the week.
    And a person that posts such prejudiced sweeping comments is . . . .
    Why? I said possibly delusional...


  • #56
    mylastparadigm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭mylastparadigm


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    A priest convicted of Child abuse is far more guilty than anyone else in society that was caught for the same crime.

    These people have put themselves high up on moral pedestals, even having the audacity to call themselves "Christians" while at the same time were knowingly harboring their vial abominations.

    Matthew 23:27 could not be more clearer: .

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

    i got a laugh out of that. maybe you can read from genesis too for a few factual quotes. you cant have it every way. :D


  • #57
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    user098 wrote: »
    But hey, lets not talk about that, it does not suit the agenda ;)
    user098 wrote: »
    they don't sell papers or fit the agenda.

    What agenda?


  • #58
    Skuxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Skuxx


    What worries me is the amount of people who are giving out that the confssion is sacred and this goes against it and what not!!Have they something to hide?
    I mean surely 99.999% of people in the country who go to confession have nothing to worry about, they can still tell the priest what ever it is they want to and the priest can do his bit as he always does and they all go on their merry way home, nothing unusual!!
    Its only the sick ****ing peodphiles that this new law is going to effect, so why the big defensive against it??


  • #59
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    There have been cases where the law of the land has superseded jehohah witness' desire to prevent blood transfusions for their children. This was right and proper in order to protect children.

    This priest/confessional story is exactly the same issue.

    Anybody who believes we should stand idly by, and agree with the jehovah witness' parents, and not give the endangered child a blood transfusion is a nutter.

    The same can be said about anybody who thinks that there should be exemptions to the law regarding reporting of child abuse.

    There is no grey area here.
    You are either with the children or you are not.
    Confessional secrecy = anti-children!!!


  • #60
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    alan1990 wrote: »
    Its only the sick ****ing peodphiles that this new law is going to effect, so why the big defensive against it??

    If a paedophile tells his barrister that he is actually guilty what do you think should happen?


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  • #61
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    alan1990 wrote: »
    Its only the sick ****ing peodphiles that this new law is going to effect, so why the big defensive against it??

    The thread title is throwing people off

    Yes it affects confession but the real story was ten years in prison for not reporting

    If Mr Murphy is abusing the children [and most abuse is in the family home] and Mrs Murphy waits five years before doing anything then it'll be asked why did you wait
    Maybe she was frightened or maybe she will claim she was intimidated but that's for the court to decide, charge her now and bring her court


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