Suicide rates in Ireland

My name is URL · 26-04-2012 07:06PM

Dangerous Man wrote: »

The answer to your question is no. Nobody in government at any rate. For years now people have tried, and failed to bring attention to the bewildering fact that the Irish government will spend millions and millions each year on preventing road deaths yet does next to nil to prevent suicides.

The will isn't there.

I think that's tad unfair. I'm no FG supporter but plenty of its TD's a fairly vocal on the issues of suicide and mental health reforms. One of their TD's (Dan Neville) is actually President of and one of the founding members of the Irish Association of Suicidology.

stupidusername · 26-04-2012 07:35PM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I don't want to give out to the poster, but I really do get fed up with people thinking they know what the situation is, when in fact they are spreading misinformation.

It's not misinformation when it's from your own experience and the experience of those you know. My own experience is that i've just got an appointment for talk therapy more than a year after I sought help (in Dublin that is,when I sought it in Limerick I was told no). And yep I was desperate at the time,and told them I had suicidal thoughts all the time. I was on edge all the time and still I was told I wasn't considered important enough.

And it's all very well to come in quoting a number of helplines and services,but the reality is the services in the country are absolute ****e. And that's from personal experience of three counsellors,4 doctors,but 6 antidepressants.

Services seem to be there but once you get talking about real help,it's very bloody hard to get.

IM0 · 26-04-2012 07:38PM

Im betting OP that you wouldnt have made this thread or maybe even had any idea about the rates?, it all comes up [anything]when it happens NIMBY

hairyprincess · 26-04-2012 07:49PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

And drowings, factory/farm/construction accidents to name but a few. Some suicides are very well planned out.

I suppose the figures can never be accurate. However the rate is alarming and something like the RSA should be set up to tackle it head on.

I don't think it's fair on the victim of the families to make assumptions like that. We can only deal with the actual figures as they are recorded.

It does need to be tackled head on. The question is how. I'm not sure there is a need for reporting suicides, but information about dealing with stress and depression needs to be drummed in to everyone at every possible angle. When people are depressed they tend to hide to it away from others for fear of their reaction. We need to be more outspoken imo.

GarIT wrote: »

Why are you asking about young people when old people had the highest rates of suicide?

Old people? I would quantify 'old' as being over 65, they accounted for 31 of all suicides in 2010.

hondasam · 26-04-2012 07:53PM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The real figures are actually a lot higher. Coroners are slow to put suicide as cause of death unless 100% sure EG suicide note. A lot of deaths are put down as misadventure.

Some families ask the coroner not to record the death as a suicide, personally I don't see what difference it makes on the death cert unless there is an insurance claim.
Maybe some families think if it's not recorded as suicide then it was not a suicide, their way of dealing with it.

GarIT · 26-04-2012 07:54PM

hairyprincess wrote: »

Old people? I would quantify 'old' as being over 65, they accounted for 31 of all suicides in 2010.

25-44. Maybe its debatable if they are old. But they definitely aren't young. 40 is the very latest age that I would consider someone old after.

hondasam · 26-04-2012 07:58PM

hairyprincess wrote: »

I don't think it's fair on the victim of the families to make assumptions like that. We can only deal with the actual figures as they are recorded.

It does need to be tackled head on. The question is how. I'm not sure there is a need for reporting suicides, but information about dealing with stress and depression needs to be drummed in to everyone at every possible angle. When people are depressed they tend to hide to it away from others for fear of their reaction. We need to be more outspoken imo.

Some accidents are suicide but it's cant always be proven. If a farmer falls into a slurry tank how can you say if it's an accident or not?

The more suicide is reported the more copycat suicides there will be, It needs to be talked about but it's not necessary to broadcast suicide funerals all over the papers.

Uriel. · 26-04-2012 08:00PM

hondasam wrote: »

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The real figures are actually a lot higher. Coroners are slow to put suicide as cause of death unless 100% sure EG suicide note. A lot of deaths are put down as misadventure.

Some families ask the coroner not to record the death as a suicide, personally I don't see what difference it makes on the death cert unless there is an insurance claim.
Maybe some families think if it's not recorded as suicide then it was not a suicide, their way of dealing with it.

Perhaps also down to old style religious beliefs as well. As far as I know, the rule about unconsecrated grinding no longer applies in the Catholic church, but often the old mentality remains that the act of suicide is wrong from a moral, religious, spiritual and social point of view.
There is still a lot of stigma attached to it in regards to families. Sure there's still a huge amount of stigma in relation to mental health (problems) generally which is terribly downheartening and frustrating.

jaffacakesyum · 26-04-2012 08:01PM

GarIT wrote: »

25-44. Maybe its debatable if they are old. But they definitely aren't young. 40 is the very latest age that I would consider someone old after.

You serious? 40 isn't old.

65+ is old. That is usually the age considered to be old in most medical research/studies, social services etc.

hairyprincess · 26-04-2012 08:02PM

hondasam wrote: »

Some families ask the coroner not to record the death as a suicide, personally I don't see what difference it makes on the death cert unless there is an insurance claim.
Maybe some families think if it's not recorded as suicide then it was not a suicide, their way of dealing with it.

That's hardly legal for the coroner to do, is it?

hondasam · 26-04-2012 08:06PM

hairyprincess wrote: »

That's hardly legal for the coroner to do, is it?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=coroners%20recording%20suicide&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fnational-news%2Fsome-coroners-underreport-cases-of-suicide-3067697.html&ei=LpyZT-S3JdGAhQeo-9T2BQ&usg=AFQjCNHdcwSxad5fPbbkEl5q8-IeobMzng

I honestly don't see why some families think how a death is recorded will make a difference. The fact is if they took their own life then it's suicide.

humbert · 26-04-2012 08:07PM

Am I the only one who thinks that every non-voluntary cause of death should be given higher priority than suicide?

26-04-2012 08:07PM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

And yet again, can I make it plain that this kind of overgeneralisation does no good whatsoever, especially for those who are desperate.

Waiting times will vary from location to location and from time to time.

This overgeneralisation just makes those who are feeling hopeless, feel even more hopeless and prevents them finding out what the actual times are in their locality.

I don't want to give out to the poster, but I really do get fed up with people thinking they know what the situation is, when in fact they are spreading misinformation.

Yeah but when it happens that someone seeks help, is told there's none and is dead within a couple of days it's that which dominates for those who knew, not rumours or news reports.

bnt · 26-04-2012 08:10PM

hondasam wrote: »

I honestly don't see why some families think how a death is recorded will make a difference. The fact is if they took their own life then it's suicide.

Isn't there a religious angle to it, though? IIRC some churches, including the Catholic, discriminate(d) against suicides when it comes to the funeral. Which is/was stupid, since a funeral isn't for the person who died - he/she is not there - but rather for the living people left behind.

MadYaker · 26-04-2012 08:10PM

Irish men of that age group are not good at talking about emotional/mental health problems.

My name is URL · 26-04-2012 08:14PM

humbert wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that every non-voluntary cause of death should be given higher priority than suicide?

Higher priority in what?

humbert · 26-04-2012 08:15PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Higher priority in what?

Time and resources spent on trying to prevent them.

hondasam · 26-04-2012 08:16PM

bnt wrote: »

Isn't there a religious angle to it, though? IIRC some churches, including the Catholic, discriminate(d) against suicides when it comes to the funeral. Which is/was stupid, since a funeral isn't for the person who died - he/she is not there - but rather for the living people left behind.

The death cert is issued after the inquest which is months after the burial.I don't think any priest/church has a problem with funerals for suicide victims. While priests might not be overly happy about it they would never refuse a funeral or say anything to the family.
There is no stigma attached any more imo.

@Humbert, you cannot stop someone committing suicide if they really want to do it.

LH Pathe · 26-04-2012 08:17PM

well I can tell you when such groups as suicidal tendencies played on the equivelent of The Den after school in 1988, there were very few suicides at such time. We just let our 'role models' do that.. without ever taking a leaf. Indeed the popular culture was essentially barbarism, yet few barbaric acts did occur. Why are people so keen to hurt themselves, and others.. today?

..has today's oversaccharine feminine orientated popular culture and seemingly unnatainable constant projection of ott happiness disenfranchised manlihood.

mikemac1 · 26-04-2012 08:25PM

LH Pathe wrote: »

well I can tell you when such groups as suicidal tendencies played on the equivelent of The Den after school in 1988, there were very few suicides at such time.

Of course it went on

LH Pathe wrote: »

..has today's oversaccharine feminine orientated popular culture and seemingly unnatainable constant projection of ott happiness disenfranchised manlihood.

I bet you're an Arts student

My name is URL · 26-04-2012 08:34PM

humbert wrote: »

Time and resources spent on trying to prevent them.

I don't think priority should be given to any single cause of death. Campaign and advocacy groups exist for all sorts of diseases and disorders. Surely the government should treat all preventable causes of death with equal importance and afford them the appropriate time and resources?

hondasam wrote: »

@Humbert, you cannot stop someone committing suicide if they really want to do it.

That's a bit of a myth. The majority of those who take their own lives are ambivalent about doing so until the end. Most people who complete suicide do not want to die, they just want to end their pain. An appropriate offer of help and support to people in a suicidal crisis can reduce their risk of dying by suicide.

cloud493 · 26-04-2012 08:39PM

LH Pathe wrote: »

well I can tell you when such groups as suicidal tendencies played on the equivelent of The Den after school in 1988, there were very few suicides at such time. We just let our 'role models' do that.. without ever taking a leaf. Indeed the popular culture was essentially barbarism, yet few barbaric acts did occur. Why are people so keen to hurt themselves, and others.. today?

..has today's oversaccharine feminine orientated popular culture and seemingly unnatainable constant projection of ott happiness disenfranchised manlihood.

Well thats just silly.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 26-04-2012 08:40PM

I read it was averaging 3 a day in Ireland.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/three-people-now-die-from-suicide-every-day-of-the-year-3010723.html

hondasam · 26-04-2012 08:44PM

My name is URL wrote: »

That's a bit of a myth. The majority of those who take their own lives are ambivalent about doing so until the end. Most people who complete suicide do not want to die, they just want to end their pain. An appropriate offer of help and support to people in a suicidal crisis can reduce their risk of dying by suicide.

People commit suicide for lots of different reasons, some will have had all the help that was possible but will still decide to die.
If someone has reached this point all the talking in the world will not stop them doing it of course you might save them this time but what about the next time.

Pottler · 26-04-2012 08:44PM

I've posted in other threads about this subject and it appears to be a huge issue at the moment yet is rarely mentioned in the media. A friend went to the local hospital morgue to identify a body and turned out he knew the attendant. "Pick out your one there now" said the attendant, "we have 14 in there from suicide this weekend". Holy sh1t. Thats 1 hospital.

My name is URL · 26-04-2012 08:52PM

hondasam wrote: »

People commit suicide for lots of different reasons, some will have had all the help that was possible but will still decide to die.
If someone has reached this point all the talking in the world will not stop them doing it of course you might save them this time but what about the next time.

I think that's true only for a small minority of people. Most of those who take their own lives have not sought any professional help beforehand, which is kind of the whole point in raising awareness of the issue.

Suicide is probably one of the most preventable causes of death there is. No vaccines or medical breakthroughs need to be made in order to prevent someone from dying from suicide.

LH Pathe · 26-04-2012 08:53PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

I bet you're an Arts student

how. did I namedrop Franz Ferdinand or something

where would the inkling be I may be a 'student' of the arts. I have been in prison, on the streets.. But a college?!! where did you get this. am well learned in popular culture through the decades and social parralels, critiques.. but only in my own time. I bet you're a mac?!

What young men are force fed today is frankly feminine, for the most part. Disillusioned.. Disenfrachised. Too soft, despite the frustrated front. Higher expectations, demands, to land a jobs all the while more suited to women. Do I have to break it down. Today's world is female orientated. There's a creeping, gradual castration going on with no sufficient outlet.

hondasam · 26-04-2012 09:11PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I think that's true only for a small minority of people. Most of those who take their own lives have not sought any professional help beforehand, which is kind of the whole point in raising awareness of the issue.

Suicide is probably one of the most preventable causes of death there is. No vaccines or medical breakthroughs need to be made in order to prevent someone from dying from suicide.

I would like to see stats on the reasons why people commit suicide, how many victims were suffering from depression or had mental illness. How many commit suicide over financial or relationship issues.
I think you can prevent some of them but not all of them unfortunately.

LeeHoffmann · 26-04-2012 09:17PM

Am I the only one who thinks that every non-voluntary cause of death should be given higher priority than suicide?

I hope so.

hairyprincess · 26-04-2012 09:18PM

hondasam wrote: »

My name is URL wrote: »

I think that's true only for a small minority of people. Most of those who take their own lives have not sought any professional help beforehand, which is kind of the whole point in raising awareness of the issue.

Suicide is probably one of the most preventable causes of death there is. No vaccines or medical breakthroughs need to be made in order to prevent someone from dying from suicide.

I would like to see stats on the reasons why people commit suicide, how many victims were suffering from depression or had mental illness. How many commit suicide over financial or relationship issues.
I think you can prevent some of them but not all of them unfortunately.

Funny I was just thinking of the reasons why people I know over the years have taken their own lives, and to be honest, for the ones I can be sure of it was a mixed bag. Family falling outs, relationship issues, financial issues and depression.

Suicide rates in Ireland

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