Greatest club team in history?

grenache · 24-04-2012 08:33AM

Seaneh wrote: »

Davids never played for Madrid

I meant Zeedorf. I always get the two mixed up.

karma_ · 24-04-2012 08:51AM

Rekop dog wrote: »

Lol @ Arsenal "Invincibles" making OP's list when compared to the others. Have always thought this was a seriously overhyped achievement. Firstly other teams have achieved greater season points totals in the Prem era which is a far better feat. Also the league was relatively weak when Arsenal went unbeaten. United were in transition at the time and the Roman empire was very much in early days.

One of the greatest British managers of all time disagrees with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzYPN3igOX4

doncarlos wrote: »

This has to be a joke?

Why is it a joke? It was a remarkable team, and a remarkable achievement, that Celtic team should most definitely be included in any discussion about one of the greatest club teams in history.

bullvine · 24-04-2012 08:58AM

No fan of Celtic but that team in the 60's was a great side!

carlop · 24-04-2012 09:09AM

United's best team surely has to be the team from 2008-2011. They were consistently there or thereabouts in Europe, winning one and reaching two finals, and dominant domestically.

The treble in '99 was obviously a superb achievement, but they never really filled you with confidence in Europe. For example it took an immense Roy Keane to get through the semi-final and though I don't like to admit it, a lot of luck as well as heart in the final against a better Bayern team.

DoctorGonzo08 · 24-04-2012 09:32AM

It's so hard to spot the stereotype Barca fans here :rolleyes:

I think somebody already mentioned it, but you can't compare teams over different decades. I see some obvious teams mentioned, but there are two in particular, that if they didn't play, Barca would never be. Those teams are Kiev in the 60's and Ajax in the 70's. (I only include club teams only as Hungary in the 50's were the pioneers).

Total Football and pressing the opposition, the backbone of Barca's style, wasn't invented, improved or created by Barca, it was brought by Rinus Michels. Who incidentally brought Cruyff to the club also, who arguably has been responsible for all of Barca's success in some way or another.

Barca are the evolution of this style of football. I would be of the belief that it is more impressive to invent and create the style of football than to copy it.

For Barca fans who believe they are the greatest team in history, remember you can only do what you do because you are standing on the shoulders of giants.

... Besides, any team with Biscuits & Marschapone in it can only be considered insulting to great players on great teams

the realpigiron · 24-04-2012 09:40AM

doncarlos wrote: »

This has to be a joke?

Maybe you should choose a different topic to comment on. Clearly you don't know enough about what you are posting about, to contribute anything worthwhile to this thread.

Balmed Out · 24-04-2012 09:43AM

As great as Barcelona are I cant see them being better then Milan were.

Cant comment on anything before the late 80s.

citytillidie · 24-04-2012 09:46AM

I would have loved to have seen that Liverpool team of 86-90 get a crack at the Milan team of the same time would have been some game.

carlop · 24-04-2012 09:53AM

Balmed Out wrote: »

As great as Barcelona are I cant see them being better then Milan were.

Cant comment on anything before the late 80s.

The thing about Milan is that they never really combined domestic and European success in the same year. Only in the 1993-1994 season did they perform a Serie A/CL double (and they scored a tiny amount of goals in doing so, something like 38 in 34 matches).

Obviously Serie A has never been stronger than in this period with Napoli, Juve, Inter and Sampdoria all having very good teams at one point or another between 1988 and 1994.

However, Barca have managed to combine CL and La Liga success in the same season twice. They have done so against a record-breaking Real Madrid, and Europa League results show that the rest of La Liga is nowhere near as weak as many people think.

For me, it would be between the current Barca side, the Real Madrid team of the 1950s and Ajax of the early 1970s, though obviously I have never seen the latter two play. Given that the core of that Barca side also won the 2008 Euros and the 2010 World Cup, I'd have to give it to them.

lubo_moravcik · 24-04-2012 09:59AM

Celtic 1967

Balmed Out · 24-04-2012 10:03AM

carlop wrote: »

The thing about Milan is that they never really combined domestic and European success in the same year. Only in the 1993-1994 season did they perform a Serie A/CL double (and they scored a tiny amount of goals in doing so, something like 38 in 34 matches).

Obviously Serie A has never been stronger than in this period with Napoli, Juve, Inter and Sampdoria all having very good teams at one point or another between 1988 and 1994.

Youve kind of made my reply for me. Barcelona only need to better Real to win La Liga, its not a lot more competitive then the Spl. Prior to 92? or there abouts it was a knockout competition with one club per country which made it harder to win too, similar to the Gaa al ireland with its back door these days, you can f up and still win.

TheBuilder · 24-04-2012 10:10AM

It seems a lot of people basing their opinion on the Celtic 67 team on what Scottish football is like now. People seem to pass over the fact it used to be much better.

Then again it's not the all conquering anazing premier league so who cares.

pickarooney · 24-04-2012 10:14AM

Warper wrote: »

The current Barca side are the best. To have won what they have in the modern game is phenomenal. When at their best, no team can live with them. Plus they play the best football i have ever seen.

Still though, they're not even going to win their domestic league this year which takes some of the shine off it.

NIMAN wrote: »

Many people forget that modern sides now can have as many foreign players as they want. You can have a team with no players from the country they play in.

Even going back to the great Milan side, they were only allowed 3 foreign players, so just imagine how good they would have been if they had been allowed to pick talent from round the world, and then add to to Gullit, Rijkaard and Van Basten?

None of the Dutch players were involved when Milan had arguably their best moment, in 1994. The Slavs were the creative force in a largely Italian team.

doncarlos · 24-04-2012 10:26AM

karma_ wrote: »

One of the greatest British managers of all time disagrees with you.
Why is it a joke? It was a remarkable team, and a remarkable achievement, that Celtic team should most definitely be included in any discussion about one of the greatest club teams in history.

bullvine wrote: »

No fan of Celtic but that team in the 60's was a great side!

the realpigiron wrote: »

Maybe you should choose a different topic to comment on. Clearly you don't know enough about what you are posting about, to contribute anything worthwhile to this thread.

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Celtic 1967

TheBuilder wrote: »

It seems a lot of people basing their opinion on the Celtic 67 team on what Scottish football is like now. People seem to pass over the fact it used to be much better.

Then again it's not the all conquering anazing premier league so who cares.

Whoopie do. They won a competition that was a lot easier to win back then. There was a lot less countries in Europe and only the champions played in the European cup. The same Celtic team were knocked out in the first round of the European cup the following season. Would this happen to one of the greatest club teams of all time??
So would the Notts Forest team that won it twice not be a far superior team to the celtic team if a european title is the benchmark for "greatest club team of all time"
Also if this side was so brilliant and all the players were Scottish wouldn't Scotland have easily won the world cup a year earlier or three years later. No way could this side be compared to Ajax (70s 90s), Liverpool (70s 80s) Real Madrid (50s) AC Milan (early 90s) Barcelona (current)

Green and white tinted glasses on a lot of posters

karma_ · 24-04-2012 10:35AM

doncarlos wrote: »

Whoopie do. They won a competition that was a lot easier to win back then. There was a lot less countries in Europe and only the champions played in the European cup. The same Celtic team were knocked out in the first round of the European cup the following season. Would this happen to one of the greatest club teams of all time??
So would the Notts Forest team that won it twice not be a far superior team to the celtic team if a european title is the benchmark for "greatest club team of all time"
Also if this side was so brilliant and all the players were Scottish wouldn't Scotland have easily won the world cup a year earlier or three years later. No way could this side be compared to Ajax (70s 90s), Liverpool (70s 80s) Real Madrid (50s) AC Milan (early 90s) Barcelona (current)

Green and white tinted glasses on a lot of posters

No one is using it as a benchmark, it is however a team worthy to be included in this discussion. Your dismissive attitude is pathetic, we can all appreciate the great teams of the past without getting pissy about it.

doncarlos · 24-04-2012 10:40AM

karma_ wrote: »

No one is using it as a benchmark, it is however a team worthy to be included in this discussion. Your dismissive attitude is pathetic, we can all appreciate the great teams of the past without getting pissy about it.

Including Celtic '67 in a discussion about "Greatest club team in history" is pathetic.

If it was greatest club team achievement then maybe they would deserve to be included. After all winning the European cup with all players born within a 20 mile radius of the stadium is remarkable but to say this makes them the Greatest club team in history is comical.

karma_ · 24-04-2012 10:44AM

doncarlos wrote: »

Including Celtic '67 in a discussion about "Greatest club team in history" is pathetic.

If it was greatest club team achievement then maybe they would deserve to be included. After all winning the European cup with all players born within a 20 mile radius of the stadium is remarkable but to say this makes them the Greatest club team in history is comical.

And we wonder why the standard of this forum is dropping.

lubo_moravcik · 24-04-2012 10:47AM

the realpigiron wrote: »

Jock Stein's Celtic team would be up there.

doncarlos wrote: »

Whoopie do. They won a competition that was a lot easier to win back then. There was a lot less countries in Europe and only the champions played in the European cup. The same Celtic team were knocked out in the first round of the European cup the following season. Would this happen to one of the greatest club teams of all time??
So would the Notts Forest team that won it twice not be a far superior team to the celtic team if a european title is the benchmark for "greatest club team of all time"
Also if this side was so brilliant and all the players were Scottish wouldn't Scotland have easily won the world cup a year earlier or three years later. No way could this side be compared to Ajax (70s 90s), Liverpool (70s 80s) Real Madrid (50s) AC Milan (early 90s) Barcelona (current)

Green and white tinted glasses on a lot of posters

If it was so easy to win back then, how come Celtic were the first British team to do so, how did none of the English giants not do it before them?
Liverpool won the CL (having never won the EPL) a few years ago then never even qualified the following year.
Leeds of the early 70's were one of the greatest club sides of all time, this same Celtic side beat them too.

ps, The Builder with green and white tinted glasses

Warper · 24-04-2012 10:48AM

Its impossible to gauge different generations as the majority of people on here can just remember the 90's onwards. Who the hell ever seen the Real Madrid team of the 50's actually play - practically no one. It should be who is the greatest club team you have seen with your own eyes. For me its this current Barca team.

doncarlos · 24-04-2012 10:52AM

karma_ wrote: »

And we wonder why the standard of this forum is dropping.

Yes because of posts like this. You have no rebuttal for any of my points and you resort to this rubbish. Go on entertain me, what makes the Celtic '67 team the greatest club team in history? How are they superior to the sides I have mentioned? Why didn't the Celtic team destroy all before them in '66, '68, 69 in Europe?

Nalz · 24-04-2012 10:55AM

grenache wrote: »

^^^^

this clip goes even further to prove that Messi is the greatest.

what the fúck?

homerjay2005 · 24-04-2012 10:55AM

steelcityblues wrote: »

Madrid of the Di Stefano/ Puskas/Gento era, that is what you call dominance.

of course it is easy to say that real team that won countless EC in a row, however back then, the competition wasnt at the level that it is now, football was only beginning to spead as a competition across the continent. including them is a safe bet and very few would disagree however, but its impossible just to measure their true worth back then and impossible to gauge just how good they were.

back then, due to travel and other restrictions, it was a lottery as to who would turn up on time or actually travel, cost restrictions, lack of good travel etc et.

the united team that perished in munich could and i state could have won multiple european cups were it not for tragic circumstances, not just based on their ability but based on the fact that a decent team back then with a good club structure would have had a massive advantage over teams would more ability, but less club finances for example.

the current barca team contains potentially the best player ever to play the game and players who not only have won it all multiple times at club level, but some players who have won it all at international level.

for those 3 reason, i think the current barca side would be my favourites for it, what they have achieved is incredible really.

doncarlos · 24-04-2012 10:58AM

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

If it was so easy to win back then, how come Celtic were the first British team to do so, how did none of the English giants not do it before them?
Liverpool won the CL (having never won the EPL) a few years ago then never even qualified the following year.
Leeds of the early 70's were one of the greatest club sides of all time, this same Celtic side beat them too.

ps, The Builder with green and white tinted glasses

I said easier, not easy. And anyhow I thought Celtic were not a British team

I'm not discounting what Celtic achieved, it was a remarkable achievement. I can understand why Celtic fans may get upset with me as it is the proudest moment in the clubs history but I have yet to hear anything to convince me that this side was the greatest club team of all time.

karma_ · 24-04-2012 10:59AM

doncarlos wrote: »

Yes because of posts like this. You have no rebuttal for any of my points and you resort to this rubbish. Go on entertain me, what makes the Celtic '67 team the greatest club team in history? How are they superior to the sides I have mentioned? Why didn't the Celtic team destroy all before them in '66, '68, 69 in Europe?

Let's examine your previous rebuttal -

This has to be a joke?

First of all, I'm not a Celtic fan, but I do think that team on merit deserves to be proposed and discussed in this thread. It's also not only my own opinion, that team regularly make it into the top 10 lists of greatest club teams that are periodically published. So while I do not think for a second they are at the pinnacle of the list, they are worthy to be mentioned and certainly be in the top ten, so to dismiss the mere mention of it as somehow shocking or horrendous is wide of the mark.

doncarlos · 24-04-2012 11:07AM

karma_ wrote: »

Let's examine your previous rebuttal -

First of all, I'm not a Celtic fan, but I do think that team on merit deserves to be proposed and discussed in this thread. It's also not only my own opinion, that team regularly make it into the top 10 lists of greatest club teams that are periodically published. So while I do not think for a second they are at the pinnacle of the list, they are worthy to be mentioned and certainly be in the top ten, so to dismiss the mere mention of it as somehow shocking or horrendous is wide of the mark.

You asked me why it was a Joke, I replied with a number of points none of which you responded to.

I did a quick google of top 10 greatest club sides of all time and this was first result
http://www.talksport.co.uk/magazine/top-ten/2011-05-28/greatest-football-club-team-ever-top-10-featuring-barcelona-man-united-liverpool-real-madrid-and-for

Fair enough my original post may have been a bit brash but I do conceder a joke that people believe that Celtic '67 are a better side than any of those in the link never mind all of them.

citytillidie · 24-04-2012 11:20AM

Notts Forest i mean they most be the only team to win the European Cup more times than they have won there own League

Paparazzo · 24-04-2012 11:26AM

Barca's current team are the best I can remember by a mile. Messi the best player.

lubo_moravcik · 24-04-2012 11:35AM

doncarlos wrote: »

I said easier, not easy. And anyhow I thought Celtic were not a British team
I'm not discounting what Celtic achieved, it was a remarkable achievement. I can understand why Celtic fans may get upset with me as it is the proudest moment in the clubs history but I have yet to hear anything to convince me that this side was the greatest club team of all time.

I suppose that sums you up right there.

doncarlos · 24-04-2012 11:45AM

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

I suppose that sums you up right there.

And this sums up why Celtic '67 were the greatest club team in history?

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

If it was so easy to win back then, how come Celtic were the first British team to do so, how did none of the English giants not do it before them?
Liverpool won the CL (having never won the EPL) a few years ago then never even qualified the following year.
Leeds of the early 70's were one of the greatest club sides of all time, this same Celtic side beat them too.

steelcityblues · 24-04-2012 12:47PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

of course it is easy to say that real team that won countless EC in a row, however back then, the competition wasnt at the level that it is now, football was only beginning to spead as a competition across the continent. including them is a safe bet and very few would disagree however, but its impossible just to measure their true worth back then and impossible to gauge just how good they were.

back then, due to travel and other restrictions, it was a lottery as to who would turn up on time or actually travel, cost restrictions, lack of good travel etc et.

the united team that perished in munich could and i state could have won multiple european cups were it not for tragic circumstances, not just based on their ability but based on the fact that a decent team back then with a good club structure would have had a massive advantage over teams would more ability, but less club finances for example.

the current barca team contains potentially the best player ever to play the game and players who not only have won it all multiple times at club level, but some players who have won it all at international level.

for those 3 reason, i think the current barca side would be my favourites for it, what they have achieved is incredible really.

With the Munich air crash, while United looked the best domestically, there is no guarantee that they would have dominated Europe for years. So 'could' is the key word here. Also, the Madrid team had 2 cups in a row before that tragic incident. They had beaten United in the semis in 1957.

Reims, with the excellent Fontaine, got to the final twice making them no mugs.

The Milan team they beat in 58 were pretty formidable with imports Schiaffino and Liedholm in the midfield.

Also, they had to beat Atletico at the semi final stage in 1959, who had beaten them to the league. Being a derby, it was never going to be an easy semi-final.

They then beat a Barcelona with Kocsis and Kubala in the 1960 Semis, beating them by a comfortable 6-2 on agg. Eintracht had several german internationals too, playing in that great final.

It is more competitive now with the multiple teams from the big countries, but what I have said above shows how good that Madrid team were.

Greatest club team in history?

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