Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

opr wrote: »

Noise that we have also ‏spoken to Eduardo Macia regarding a potential return. Head scout in the Rafa days. Hhmmmmmm . . . .

Opr

where are you hearing this OPR may I ask?

Not sure i'd be happy with that, Macia scouted alot of rubbish we signed aswell.

Jayob10 wrote: »

where are you hearing this OPR may I ask?

Not sure i'd be happy with that, Macia scouted alot of rubbish we signed aswell.

Just silly twitter stuff. I doubt he personally scouted them all :P I think something like ten scouts were let go with him when Comolli came in. I wouldn't feel anything either way as I know very little about him so making any kind of judgement would seem silly.

Opr

Gbear wrote: »

Missing the sitters we missed wasn't down to our plan not working and there's little evidence that a plan b would have resulted in us not missing other sitters.
It wasn't that we were unlucky or "had a bad day", we're **** at scoring goals. There was nobody in the team that started yesterday that can be relied upon to score.



There are only 2 clubs that can compete with us turn-over wise (and another 2 with the money cheat). We're not Spurs or Newcastle. They don't have shirt and kit sponsors anywhere near what we do. They don't have the worldwide fanbase that we do.
Newcastle went down through spectacularly bad management. I don't think FSG are as bad as Ashley.
I also don't think Kenny is a bad enough manager to keep us sittin in mid table.
I think we've seen enough in our style of play that we can be a very good team. We just failed to get a goalscorer last year.



We're disproportionately bad at scoring. Really really bad.
I think people are sometimes over-complicating things.
All the tiny little faults they pick are a case of bias. Do you think other managers don't make mistakes? Do you think other teams don't have off days or games where they don't try enough?

Any fault is legitimate to bring up but I think sometimes, when doing that, some on here can't see the wood for the trees and vastly overestimate what effect the more minor problems (like carrying Henderson or Spearing not being "good enough") have on us when contrasted to the big one of lacking a deadicated goalscorer (or perhaps 3 competent ones like suarez).
Those kinds of problem are the kinds of ones I'd want a manager challenging for the league to be ironing out.

You see the likes of Guardiola working in those kinds of margins. If they win 5-1 he's not saying "yay, we scored 5", he's saying "what the ****, we conceded."

We've had that problem from the start and I don't believe, having made a mistake, Kenny has been given the chance to rectify it, as I believe he can.

You speak a lot of sense there, but to say that our problems are tiny ones or ones that are easily fixed over simplifies it for me.

Games like yesterday happen, and sure they could happen to some teams two or three times a year, but for Liverpool they have become a pretty consistent thing all season and there seems to be no real focus on formation or tactics to try and solve the problem. We just seem to be lining up and trying the same thing week in week out and since the new year more often than not it has failed to work.

We have no B plan in midfield. We keep trying to set the midfield up as if Lucas was still there. We keep trying to fit players in that simply cannot do that job.

We have no B plan up front when Carroll starts. It is pretty basic stuff and our results show that it has no cutting edge at all.

Our wing play is brutal, and has no cutting edge at all.

The worst thing about our play is that it is so one paced all the time.

It is easy to say that a few new players will fix it and that a new striker solves it or a new winger or a new midfielder fixes it, but what did we buy in the 2011 windows?

We spent £35m on Carroll, £22m on Suarez, £20m on Downing and between £16m - £20m on Henderson. Fast forward to the 2012 summer window and we still need a first team striker. We still need a first team winger. We still need a firt team midfielder, and we have the likes of Maxi, Kuyt, Carragher, Gerrard, and Bellamy all in positions where they will only be good for a smaller number of games per season or in the case of one or two of them, need shipping out.


This season showed us a few things.

One was that we spent an awful lot of money on players who are not good enough. Some of them may not be good enough yet, and some may not be good enough full stop. But for the season that is almost done they were not good enough.

It also showed us that we had only one quality CM at the club, and for good measure that point was hammered home when we lost that midfielder for the season.

We have been shown that tactically our manager has been found wanting. What we do not know is whether or not he was on a bit of a steep learning curve after his time away from active management. If it was indeed a case that he was adapting to active management again and he has learned from it, then that leaning curve may serve him and the club well next season if he is still manager.

But when the problems at the club potentially include the manager, the tactics and a fair chunk of the first team, then it becomes more than a series of tiny problems and starts to look like a big potential problem.

If more than one of the big signings from the 2011 windows had worked out on the pitch more often than not, then a different picture might get painted, but they have not.

Can the owners afford to allow a similar amount of club money to be spent again this summer?

I think a better question might be can they afford not to spend the money needed to bring in genuine quality this summer?

I think the answer is that they cannot afford to spend what it takes to bring in real quality. Maybe the only real question is who do the owners think is the right man to decide on who those quality players are.

Kess73 wrote: »

You speak a lot of sense there, but to say that our problems are tiny ones or ones that are easily fixed over simplifies it for me.

Games like yesterday happen, and sure they could happen to some teams two or three times a year, but for Liverpool they have become a pretty consistent thing all season and there seems to be no real focus on formation or tactics to try and solve the problem. We just seem to be lining up and trying the same thing week in week out and since the new year more often than not it has failed to work.

We have no B plan in midfield. We keep trying to set the midfield up as if Lucas was still there. We keep trying to fit players in that simply cannot do that job.

We have no B plan up front when Carroll starts. It is pretty basic stuff and our results show that it has no cutting edge at all.

Our wing play is brutal, and has no cutting edge at all.

The worst thing about our play is that it is so one paced all the time.

It is easy to say that a few new players will fix it and that a new striker solves it or a new winger or a new midfielder fixes it, but what did we buy in the 2011 windows?

We spent £35m on Carroll, £22m on Suarez, £20m on Downing and between £16m - £20m on Henderson. Fast forward to the 2012 summer window and we still need a first team striker. We still need a first team winger. We still need a firt team midfielder, and we have the likes of Maxi, Kuyt, Carragher, Gerrard, and Bellamy all in positions where they will only be good for a smaller number of games per season or in the case of one or two of them, need shipping out.


This season showed us a few things.

One was that we spent an awful lot of money on players who are not good enough. Some of them may not be good enough yet, and some may not be good enough full stop. But for the season that is almost done they were not good enough.

It also showed us that we had only one quality CM at the club, and for good measure that point was hammered home when we lost that midfielder for the season.

We have been shown that tactically our manager has been found wanting. What we do not know is whether or not he was on a bit of a steep learning curve after his time away from active management. If it was indeed a case that he was adapting to active management again and he has learned from it, then that leaning curve may serve him and the club well next season if he is still manager.

But when the problems at the club potentially include the manager, the tactics and a fair chunk of the first team, then it becomes more than a series of tiny problems and starts to look like a big potential problem.

If more than one of the big signings from the 2011 windows had worked out on the pitch more often than not, then a different picture might get painted, but they have not.

Can the owners afford to allow a similar amount of club money to be spent again this summer?

I think a better question might be can they afford not to spend the money needed to bring in genuine quality this summer?

I think the answer is that they cannot afford to spend what it takes to bring in real quality. Maybe the only real question is who do the owners think is the right man to decide on who those quality players are.

Yeah fair enough.
I just don't think Kenny could've done much more. We have tried dropping Carroll at times and going for 5 in midfield and that hasn't worked either.
Ultimately I don't think there could've been a significant difference made with the squad assembled.

We'll just have to see. If the owners are happy that Commolli was the problem then I think they'll keep Kenny.
It's possible that the only reason they're keeping Kenny is because of the cup run.
Ultimately, I don't have a problem with Kenny being replaced (so long as it's a good replacement). I'm just not actively seeking it.

If FSG decide that Kenny was sufficiently blameless for the cluster**** last summer and stick with him i'll be happy with that too.

I suppose the small upside on the ludicrous spending front is that although we didn't get to where we need to, I think we're still better off than last season.
There was alot of low-hanging fruit dumped. There's still a few who're coming to the end of their carreers (maxi, kuyt, Carra) or not good enough (downing, adam) that should be removed but apart from that I think we've got a decent squad. Any new manager comes in wouldn't need to go ape**** changing everything.

Getting Charlie Adams back will be like a new signing.

whatawaster wrote: »

Unfortunately it will be like we signed Charlie Adam all over again

It's like a reoccurring nightmare!

Mr Alan wrote: »

You do realise that is the exact opposite of what is happening, right?

They are Kenny's signings though?

Since when has he been called the Hodge? Sounds like the kind of idiot nickname that the man himself would probably give to himself.


Most clueless Liverpool manager of all time works better for him.

011001100111010101100011011010 11001000
00011110010110111101110101

Andy Carroll wrote: »

They are Kenny's signings though?

Yea, of course.

SlickRic wrote: »

i still don't see what the problem was with The Hodge saying he watched Suarez play.

which is how this all started.

Actually it started with someone seeming to imply Kenny deserved no credit for the Suarez signing as we'd looked at him previously. I was just pointing out how stupid that logic was.

If I ever read 'The Liverpool way' again it will be far too soon, it's embarrassing.

Dub13 wrote: »

Where were the boo boys when we were £350 million in debt....?nowere because we were running good in the PL.They are a superficial bunch of selfish cnuts.You need to look deeper into things,sometimes things are ok on the face but rotten inside.Then other times they are ok on the inside and look rotten from the outside.

We are 2 weeks form a cup final,get behind the team The Liverpool way and in the summer we will look back at things when the time is right.

I think some people have genuinely forgotten that we came within a whisker of ceasing to exist just over 18 months ago...